hedgefunded Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 As previously mentioned, the feral population breed because they get paid to do so. They are stupid, but not THAT stupid. If getting knocked up means you get everything paid for and don't have to work then it's no surprise when it happens. Let's be honest though, the whole world is ******ed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaynewcastle Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Would help to reduce the obesity problem in this country I suppose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Or grow some veg which will give them the finest quality organic food for bugger all money. Its just the reallocation of time and money for these time rich cash poor people that they cant work out. They need educating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Yes but how do you solve that crisis? or send them govt food packages instead of money? Erm. Yes. Works for their free school lunches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 (edited) You are comparing two different economic setups which is wrong, you would be better off comparing the UK to other western countries. Bottom line: Blokes who dip their wick need to stand up and be counted when it comes to behaving responsbiliy in bringing up their kids, this means being around for their own kids, laying down the law of what is right and wrong and setting a good example otherwise are they fit for purpose to be a real Man? Women who have career ambitions to be a single mum need to consider the future and disadvantages they expose their kids to. If they dont care about this, then are they fit for purpose to be a mother? Schools should do day trips to different parts of society, to show how life can turn out if one doesnt work hard at school. It will also be educational when they know how hard it is to be a single mum, kids screaming, messy nappies, no sleep, constant questions followed by multiple "Why?" questions. If kids are shown some reality instead of the media fuelled fantasy lifestyles of the rich and famous then kids might wake up to what real life is like and might help reduce the number of single parents and disadvantages kids that exist in society today and also turn out some better educated kids. ...the economic set up maybe different, but not as different as you may think.....when children from large poorer families grow up even in western societies the parents of that extended family are better cared for and more secure living with close family around them. What bugs me is in how many cases the fathers of these single mothers get off scott free with very little criticism from society...some of them have children with different women and don't pay a penny piece towards their up-keep....but worse than that they are not involved in their children's lives, these kids do not have a father figure in their life a role model to follow.......but society is too quick to criticise the mothers who are told they must bring up their kids single handedly and go to work without any real support behind them. Edited October 2, 2011 by winkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 The world isn't getting shorter of food. There are more obese people than starving people (see Prof Barry Popkin's speech to the International Association of Agricultural Economists). It's just that our systems distribute the food badly. Wrong. Parts of the world are very short of food: East Africa being the most obvious example. Famine relief in the past means the problem today is a whole lot worse than it would naturally have been. Much of Europe has been long-term short of food. We solved it with emigration, and with food imports, and most recently (since 1945) with unsustainable intensive agriculture (and fishing) that should only ever have been contemplated as an emergency measure to help take us through peak population. Quantitative easing the food supply. Global famine will happen. The question is, when? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Bring back Arthur from the grave then on East Enders and whoever else is the equivalent for Coronation Street, thats probably the most effective way to get them out from behind the TV. Likewise a bit more gardening programs sexed up a bit would be good. Maybe we could get Jordon to do some Celebrity Gardening with Monty Don and Alvin Hall to explain how much money one is saving by growing their own. Now that would be worth watching just to see the old folks spit out their cups of tea at the sight of Jordon on an allotment or veg plot asking for the dibber. What is East Enders and Coronation Street?... How to make growing stuff and home cooking more popular and fashionable is a good idea, but the big corporate food companies and the like would not support it because they would lose market share... they are teaching the wrong things in the schools, stuff that will never be used or needed in later life instead of stuff that will come in very useful in later life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Yes but how do you solve that crisis? Have a whole raft of state-paid interfering busybodies who go and make sure people get their priorities right? Or give them benefits in direct payments to shops (and that system would be abused still) or send them govt food packages instead of money? Soup kitchens. And equivalents that are the subject of this thread. Think about it. Do you sometimes give money to a beggar? If so, do you ever worry that it'll just be spent on drugs (fags, booze, whatever)? You can't always tell the deserving from the undeserving! You can do your good deed by buying them a wholesome cuppa and a sandwich (or whatever your generosity on the day runs to) instead of giving them money. The equivalent state provision is hostels and soup kitchens. Not ideal, but far better than throwing ever more money indiscriminately at those whose income is perfectly adequate but whose needs are not met, or whose sprogs are neglected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrink Proof Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Absent fathers to be 'legally responsible' for their children up to the age of 18By Daily Mail Reporter And once the fathers are over 18, what then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Yes on the one hand the Govt tells us to be greener to reduce CO2 output but not if it reduces their tax take as we have seen with the proposed 80mph speed limit increase. revenue raiser if you can get more people to burn more petrol... What about "unemployed to be given allotments" as a headline? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Woods? Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 AMERICA TODAY: Heartbreaking Pictures From New Jersey's Homeless 'Tent City' Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/lakewood-new-jersey-homeless-tent-city-2011-9#the-camp-is-run-by-reverend-steven-brigham-and-welcomes-residents-from-all-walks-of-life-4#ixzz1ZZD7fI9U Wonder how long before similar images appear in the UK? Truly awful. Some of the later pictures in the series make it clear how governments criminalise poverty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Wrong. Parts of the world are very short of food: East Africa being the most obvious example. Famine relief in the past means the problem today is a whole lot worse than it would naturally have been. Much of Europe has been long-term short of food. We solved it with emigration, and with food imports, and most recently (since 1945) with unsustainable intensive agriculture (and fishing) that should only ever have been contemplated as an emergency measure to help take us through peak population. Quantitative easing the food supply. Global famine will happen. The question is, when? Agreed, I joined the Soil Association to do a little bit to help. When I get my own place I'd like to grow some food too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Agreed, I joined the Soil Association to do a little bit to help. When I get my own place I'd like to grow some food too. Small business entrepreneurs......the opportunities for growth are there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Small business entrepreneurs......the opportunities for growth are there. I don't follow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I don't follow? ....what do you think are the future trends?....what do you think people will want and will buy in the future?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 ....what do you think are the future trends?....what do you think people will want and will buy in the future?... An iPod you can use to increase that value of your house? All I know is that people NEED food/water, shelter, fuel for cooking/heating, essentials. Some sort of transport. Access to the internet/communication is also invaluable in this day and age, do libraries still provide it for free? The rest is superfluos really. My phone is a Nokia 5410, my last MP3 player was bought in 2007 and was only replaced the other month. I'm probably not the consumer-whore to be asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Tell you what though, the waiting list for allotments is mental: I have received your request for an allotment and have placed you on the list of those who have expressed an interest. The list is always being updated with those on the list being enquired of to see if they wish to remain at this stage you are number 22 on the list. The number one went on in Oct 2009 and hopefully we may be able to offer an allotment soon to them but as yoy can see the waiting can be for some time. When we have a vacancy we offer the plot to the highest on the list first etc I would advice that you enquire with other allotments to be placed on there lists it may be quicker. Thankyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Sacks Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Wrong. Parts of the world are very short of food: East Africa being the most obvious example. Famine relief in the past means the problem today is a whole lot worse than it would naturally have been. Not having their own commodities exchange is the main issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Likewise why not advertise in the local shops free ads? Say something like: Got a spare bit of garden I can use as an allotment? Allotment waiting lists are 3 years long in [insert area]. I can share my quality organic produce with you in return and make a new friend in the process and maybe even be a free gardener. Call this number if you can help me out:[insert Number] You dont know until you ask. That's a good idea tr1ck5t3r. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Tell you what though, the waiting list for allotments is mental: No one on our queue. I have had access to another site's list though and it's long and full of out of date info and people who don't want them anymore. I'd suggest (unless you live in OL9) that you go along regularly and ask if anyone needs a hand with their plot. If you show keen you'll be at the top of the list before you know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garybug Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 No one on our queue. Just got my allotment today after a 6 month wait (South Cambridgeshire - well chuffed) This very much relates to my OP. If you are on food parcels, chances are you are out of work / have time on your hands - why not use it to GROW YOUR OWN STUFF! Granted not everyone has a garden allotment, but as tricky says - share one. Question is, if you pulled their cash benefits & replaced them with vouchers (oh, the horror!), or left them destitute (as I believe they do in the States once the welfare period runs out) - they would either steal (probable) or get up and do something about it. Are there not projects in Detriot claiming inner city land to grow food? Cannot see that happening here - the land owning classes & their agents (i.e. the plod) would soon put paid to that. It's only when the poor go hungry, they'll start REALLY getting into the riot groove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfp123 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 (edited) As I have said on another thread, ending all child related benefits would help paradoxically. People, even the feckless, understand money. If there is a cost to having a child, rather than a benefit, these people are less likely to have them. Given that having a child is now a choice, they will chose not to have them. It won't end all the problems alas, but you won't get children born deliberately for the purposes of acquiring benefits. Where some are so feckless that they spend money on booze or drugs in preference to feeding their kids, then those kids need to be taken into care. Having come into close contact with one case, the amount of money paid to parents is irrelevant when drugs take hold, the kids never see any benefits. the cost of raising a child is more than £1000 a year. no one has children simply to collect child benefits, because there isnt any net gain from it. also everybody is a child at one stage of their life so everybody receives it. it is the closest thing to a universal income or what people consider a citizens income. its almost a reverse pension. Edited October 2, 2011 by mfp123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gf3 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 (edited) the cost of raising a child is more than £1000 a year. no one has children simply to collect child benefits, because there isnt any net gain from it. also everybody is a child at one stage of their life so everybody receives it. it is the closest thing to a universal income or what people consider a citizens income. its almost a reverse pension. the £20 a week isn't the problem it's the family tax credits of £59.45 a week that's the problem. http://www.moneyformums.co.uk/Benefits/Benefitscalculator/tabid/88/Default.aspx Edited October 2, 2011 by gf3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicestersq Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 the cost of raising a child is more than £1000 a year. no one has children simply to collect child benefits, because there isnt any net gain from it. also everybody is a child at one stage of their life so everybody receives it. it is the closest thing to a universal income or what people consider a citizens income. its almost a reverse pension. Child benefit is the key to all the other benefits including council housing. Sure, no one will have a kid for just one grand a year, which is why I say child RELATED benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLegallyBlonde Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 the £20 a week isn't the problem it's the family tax credits of £59.45 a week that's the problem. http://www.moneyformums.co.uk/Benefits/Benefitscalculator/tabid/88/Default.aspx You can't send these children back though and mistakes will happen, think back to 1950's Ireland do we seriously want young people in Magdelene Laundries again ? Is that progress ? Bring back YTS type scheme and pay people a living wage. Simples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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