Injin Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14692596 Jobless people without children could be among those forced to pay full council tax under government plans, experts warn.Around four million people currently get their council tax paid in full on grounds of low income and savings. Benefit experts say saving 10% off the costs of the £5bn scheme could see some lose their entitlement completely. But Housing Minister Grant Shapps told the BBC that saving 10% was "relatively straightforward." Benefit changes Speaking to Money Box on Radio 4, the Minister said: "Our criticism of the current system is that it doesn't matter one jot to the local authority whether a resident is working or not. "We want to take people out of being trapped out of work and get them into work and off benefit. That's how I see the 10% being saved." But Phil Agulnik, director of the online benefits calculator entitledto.com, said it was not that simple, especially as benefits for pensioners have to be protected. "The government has handed over the problem of making this £500m annual saving to local authorities, saying 'You are free to make it where you like as long as you don't touch pensioners.' So among working age people the cut is about 20% nationally." more insanity at the link.... The plan is clear - make life harder and harder for the slaves while demanding more and more miracles from them. Chance of success - zero. But it goes down well with the daily mailers and other ******wits...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia O'Keeffe Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14692596 The plan is clear - make life harder and harder for the slaves while demanding more and more miracles from them. Chance of success - zero. But it goes down well with the daily mailers and other ******wits...... This needs an innovative solution, perhaps the doleys can club together and take out a mates mortgage to pay the tax or some sort of loan at 20% above RPI they can pay back over the next 30 years (early redemption penalties obviously) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer466 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Would certainly reduce their discretionary spend on fags and booze. Most of the ones I see round here get it all from the corner shop.... They cant even work out it is cheaper to get it from the big supermarkets..... Whilst I would agree there are some people that need a sympathetic approach certainly those with children which the article identifies, if this can kick start some of the idle childless and single into doing something to contribute to society then all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 Would certainly reduce their discretionary spend on fags and booze. Yes, yes everyone on benefits has hundreds of pounds to throw at ale and tabs. Most of the ones I see round here get it all from the corner shop.... They cant even work out it is cheaper to get it from the big supermarkets..... They probably don't also have the ability to know where people get their income merely by looking at them. nice talent you've got there...unless you are just delusional or have fallen down cliche mountain. Whilst I would agree there are some people that need a sympathetic approach certainly those with children which the article identifies, if this can kick start some of the idle childless and single into doing something to contribute to society then all good. That's the plan - forced labour. Can't quite believe you are in favour of slavery, but here we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 This is nonsense! It an incentive to acquire children if you lost your job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomberbrown Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 <br />They were talking about this on Moneybox and Paul Lewis suggested that "wealthy" singletons should have their discount removed/reduced! He was very much pushing this idea. If council tax is supposed to be about services used why should a single person have to pay the same as, say, a family of 4-6, Paul? Maybe they should increase council tax for "wealthy" families, eh, Paul?<br /><br /><br /><br />Exactly! I just filled in my discount declaration to Lambeth the other day as it happens. Actually, I and they call it a discount, it should really be considered a rebate. Bring back the poll tax I say!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inflating Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Shapps must've forgotten the poll tax riots and think all single, childless males are the nerdy type he still knows from school and uni - he must be banking on their mass revolt being limited to a Facebook campaign to return library books up to a week late and saying a rude word when asked to pay the fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRMX9 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 What is happening is that the government is localising decision making on the award of council tax - so rather than paying a subsidy based on claim numbers they will instead pay a grant (cut by 10% compared to current funding). Councils will be free to spend the money as they wish e.g. they could run skills training or provide apprenticeship schemes rather than using the money to subsidise people's council tax. Of course some councils could offer more generous council tax benefit than at present to the jobless - and put the difference on council tax bills. Pensioners won't be affected and will be guaranteed to keep their current entitlements - well they vote don't they! However under 65s could in theory lose their CTB entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inflating Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 What is happening is that the government is localising decision making on the award of council tax - so rather than paying a subsidy based on claim numbers they will instead pay a grant (cut by 10% compared to current funding). Councils will be free to spend the money as they wish e.g. they could run skills training or provide apprenticeship schemes rather than using the money to subsidise people's council tax. Of course some councils could offer more generous council tax benefit than at present to the jobless - and put the difference on council tax bills. Pensioners won't be affected and will be guaranteed to keep their current entitlements - well they vote don't they! However under 65s could in theory lose their CTB entirely. A postcode lottery of CTBs, now there's an interesting experiment - that's going to bring all sorts of weirdness and I think little wonderfulness to local rents and other prices if they were daft enough to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 kick start some of the idle childless and single into doing something to contribute to society then all good. Bad idea. With the '70s get pregnant to get housed tradition back with a vengeance under NuLab, the last thing we need is yet more economic incentives for the jobless to breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milton Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 The plan is clear - make life harder and harder for the slaves while demanding more and more miracles from them. Although the poll tax of 1381 was the immediate cause of the Peasants' Revolt, the root of the conflict lay in deeper tensions between peasants and landowners..............................The rebellion started in Kent and Essex in late May, and on 12 June bands of peasants gathered at Blackheath near London...........................The rebels demanded the complete abolition of serfdom. The king was ensconced in the Tower of London with his councillors. They agreed that the government did not have the forces to disperse the rebels, and that the only feasible option was to negotiate.........The king agreed to the rebels' demands, but this move only emboldened the rebels, who continued their looting and killings.........The king then soon revoked the charters of freedom and pardon that he had granted......... William the Bastards Feudal system of land grabbing, the 1846 General enclosures act, 2008 Bank Bailouts........... serfdom is alive and well under our Parliament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Council tax? You suckers actually pay that do you? Suckers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24gray24 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Traditionally, councils wanting to cut back on payments simply become very slow to process new claims. The unintended consequence of such a policy will therefor be to stop single men moving around the country to look for work. Gangs of single men being made homeless appeals to middle class Tories, but is actually too dangerous to law and order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Traditionally, councils wanting to cut back on payments simply become very slow to process new claims. I'm sorry but you're thinking this the wrong way.... council tax payments? I.e. because they extort you less 25% suddenly it becomes a payment? How ridiculous.... as said a poster on here told everybody how not to pay extortion tax. It works you save £1000 a year. Although you do become tumble weed and completely lack any roots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Shapps must've forgotten the poll tax riots and think all single, childless males are the nerdy type he still knows from school and uni - he must be banking on their mass revolt being limited to a Facebook campaign to return library books up to a week late and saying a rude word when asked to pay the fine The HK Police force used to think this of Chinese youths as well and the stereotype still exists.... a few natives are very surprised that I can floor them quite quickly..... the 1980s riots in HK again proved this these nerds learnt chemistry very well as they turned up with IEDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torquay lookout Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Would certainly reduce their discretionary spend on fags and booze. Most of the ones I see round here get it all from the corner shop.... They cant even work out it is cheaper to get it from the big supermarkets..... Whilst I would agree there are some people that need a sympathetic approach certainly those with children which the article identifies, if this can kick start some of the idle childless and single into doing something to contribute to society then all good. this comment is so dumb,i am 50 and unemployed with little or no chance of getting a job,my total income is £67.50 jsa, i receive no housing benefit i own my own flat ,my service charges are £17 per week so i effectively have £50 a week to live on this rules out heating in the winter and pretty much anything else,the idea single poeple have it easy "on the dole"is a joke,people like you ought to think before you open your mouth,lets hope karma gives you what you deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFlibble Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 The plan is clear - make life harder and harder for the slaves while demanding more and more miracles from them. While at the same time using an iron fist against anyone who dare take to the streets and start kicking off about anything. Can we claim asylum yet in a real country? This one of ours is shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 While at the same time using an iron fist against anyone who dare take to the streets and start kicking off about anything. Can we claim asylum yet in a real country? This one of ours is shit. The best investments I've made over the past ten years is not gold, it is not silver but it is the numerous passports I hold and the transient manner I live my life... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer466 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Yes, yes everyone on benefits has hundreds of pounds to throw at ale and tabs. They probably don't also have the ability to know where people get their income merely by looking at them. nice talent you've got there...unless you are just delusional or have fallen down cliche mountain. That's the plan - forced labour. Can't quite believe you are in favour of slavery, but here we are. Not at all mate I live (and work) in one of the most deprived council wards in the Country. I see these problems every day, which probably makes me a little more qualified to offer an opinion than most. The area in question has an over supply of quite large houses which have been turned into HMO's by unscrupulous landlords, this low quality, low cost housing naturally attracts some of the worst in society, the vast majority of which are unemployed. The abuse of alcohol and drugs is also rife but that goes with the territory. Only yesterday I had to call an ambulance for one your disadvantaged who was unconscious through alcohol outside my back gate. This was at 11.30 am. I know of one such cretin who last year lived over the back from me who would not even put coins into his electric meter preferring to spend what he had on booze rather than heat or light. He was in the habit of taking a leak in his yard in front of kids so eventually my missus was able to instrument his eviction. I do have sympathy for those that are genuinely unemployed who try to better their situations. I have no time for oxygen thieves who go straight to the offy from the jobcentre or beg on the local streets for fags or money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 While at the same time using an iron fist against anyone who dare take to the streets and start kicking off about anything. There is an alternative though as espoused by Old Holborn... simply fall off the radar. I fell off the Radar when I was made redundant earlier this year. I don't appear on the census. I don;t appear on the electoral roll. I ride around friends motorbikes which are insured for anybody to ride... When the beast is starved it can't perform enforcement. An enormous number of young people I know have simply upped sticks and gone to teach in China, they get an OK standard of living but starve the UK government. Those main battle tanks the UK government will want to use on us when it kicks off won't even have enough money to stick fuel in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFlibble Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Whilst I would agree there are some people that need a sympathetic approach certainly those with children which the article identifies, if this can kick start some of the idle childless and single into doing something to contribute to society then all good. Won't someone think of the children? It gives me great pride to pony over my taxes to the local slapper so she can keep her basket of mongrels clothed and fed. Any policy that keeps this Great British tradition alive must be embraced with open arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 Not at all mate I live (and work) in one of the most deprived council wards in the Country. I see these problems every day, which probably makes me a little more qualified to offer an opinion than most. The area in question has an over supply of quite large houses which have been turned into HMO's by unscrupulous landlords, this low quality, low cost housing naturally attracts some of the worst in society, the vast majority of which are unemployed. The abuse of alcohol and drugs is also rife but that goes with the territory. Only yesterday I had to call an ambulance for one your disadvantaged who was unconscious through alcohol outside my back gate. This was at 11.30 am. I know of one such cretin who last year lived over the back from me who would not even put coins into his electric meter preferring to spend what he had on booze rather than heat or light. He was in the habit of taking a leak in his yard in front of kids so eventually my missus was able to instrument his eviction. I do have sympathy for those that are genuinely unemployed who try to better their situations. I have no time for oxygen thieves who go straight to the offy from the jobcentre or beg on the local streets for fags or money. Why would someone buy beer rather than heat themselves, if not due to the need to drown out some personal horror? And ofc, how do you know where someones income comes from just by looking at them? When I see some bloke outside an off licence I haven't the slightest clue about his personal circumstances. How do you perform this feat of psychic magic and gain an insight into the contents of his wallet and personal balance sheet, oh mystic meg of the estates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer466 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 this comment is so dumb,i am 50 and unemployed with little or no chance of getting a job,my total income is £67.50 jsa, i receive no housing benefit i own my own flat ,my service charges are £17 per week so i effectively have £50 a week to live on this rules out heating in the winter and pretty much anything else,the idea single poeple have it easy "on the dole"is a joke,people like you ought to think before you open your mouth,lets hope karma gives you what you deserve. Why don't you retrain for something that is in demand then? I am older than you (now self employed) and have never had a day on the rock and roll in my life. I also now work in an area that has one of the highest unemployment levels in the UK. Quite simply there is no real work here which why I work for myself. If you put some of that energy into bettering yourself than wallowing in your own misery then perhaps you will be able to earn a living and heat your place in the winter.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Why don't you retrain for something that is in demand then? I am older than you (now self employed) and have never had a day on the rock and roll in my life. I also now work in an area that has one of the highest unemployment levels in the UK. Quite simply there is no real work here which why I work for myself. Because what is in demand today does not mean will be in demand tomorrow. Late 1990s, accountancy is crying out for new accountants. Had a think about it and got qualified, just in time for the market to collapse due to outsourcing and automation. IT was a gold rush there, but then the bottom fell out for many, not all but many. Plumbers? Sparkies? Eastern Europeans etc. If you put some of that energy into bettering yourself than wallowing in your own misery then perhaps you will be able to earn a living and heat your place in the winter.... I've not had the heating on for about 6 years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer466 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Why would someone buy beer rather than heat themselves, if not due to the need to drown out some personal horror? And ofc, how do you know where someones income comes from just by looking at them? When I see some bloke outside an off licence I haven't the slightest clue about his personal circumstances. How do you perform this feat of psychic magic and gain an insight into the contents of his wallet and personal balance sheet, oh mystic meg of the estates? Some personal horror like looking for a job perhaps (even if there is none to be had)? The answer to that would be to move where there is work!! Millions of people do! Single unemployed persons have a lot less mobility issues than families. Your comments suggest you take the view alcohol and drug abuse is a disease rather than a lifestyle choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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