Glut Drives Down Used Car Prices

[OnlyMe]

Just about to let go of my great E36 323i touring. I've done 9000 miles in 8 months and spent £0.00 on it. The last owner treated it like his baby and spent £2500 on it just before selling it to me for £560. Just agreed a sale @ £750, all because of the last owner's love for it. All I've done is washed it and kept it looking good.

What's your trigger point for selling though? Just regular churn, or are you effectively lookingall the time for a good replacement that you can make a turn on the deal, servicing / fixing due, mileage, boredom?

[OnlyMe]

I have a fleet of vans that have all been common rail for some time. They run into problems due to the exceedingly high pressures involved in the system. They typically manifest themselves around the fat part of 100k mileage (usually outside warranty) with symptoms of erratic idle, difficult starting going into limp home mode etc.

The numpty main dealer's solution will be to replace the entire fuel delivery system from tank to injectors piece by piece, at your expense, until eventually declaring the problem fixed - unless you can find something more trivial like a sensor failure or coked up egr valve.

Our fitters used to waste hours on these wild goose chases so now we just get rid when they're outside warranty - it isn't marque specific because the, usually Bosch, components are used by all.

Beautiful encapsulation of the general sequence of events behind many threads I have read on modern diesel diagnostics and repair.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Just jumping in to take advantage of some of the knowledgable people on this thread...

I drive 50,000+ miles per year (self employed) and need a new (reliable, cheap to run) car. A couple of colleagues recommended Skoda Octavia 1.9 Diesels as cars that give good mpg and can be reasonably expected to run for 200,000+ miles. Would you agree with that?

If so what's a good target price for one that's say a couple of years old with 20000 miles on the clock? I saw an 08 Elegance today with 25k on it listed at 10,500 which seemed reasonable (though I'd hope to get it for less than 10000), does that seem a good buy?

Thanks.

1.9 is reliable but will need a not standard oil change every 10k without fail to get there and also cambelts fairly frequently due to injector tech.

[Nickolarge]

Gas guzzlers always a good second hand buy,you can get a last of the range old shape Jag xj with a twin turbo diesel and aluminium body giving great mpg for around 22k from a dealer two and half years old was 53k new.

In terms of average cars most of my car dealer mates are struggling getting stock and are looking forward to when the cars bought under the scrappage scheme work through - they say it's the opposite of a glut

I have a 2001 Focus that we bought over 3 years ago for £3000. Dealers round here are still asking well over £2000 for the same age Focus. Doesn't seem like any kind of price crash to me.

[Realistbear]

Listening to people boast about their 1.4 engines is funny. It's like some sort of chav car forum innit ? Burnt off a Porshe the other day at the lights in my 1.0 Micra etc.

Come on, get serious. 1.4 will get granny to the shops and back. It will do a job and it may do that job very well.

But unless you're packing 200+ horses in a supermini there's really no point in talking about driving experience.

If I was into spending a lot on a car and wanted to keep it to a 1.4 I would go for this:

http://www.greencarsite.co.uk/GREENNEWS/audi-a3-1.4.htm

The A3 1.4 TFSI can reach 62mph from rest over one second more quickly than its 1.6 FSI predecessor at 9.6 seconds, can carry on to a 126mph top speed and has the potential to cover up to 43.5mpg (combined cycle). Despite its power, torque and performance advantage, it also registers a reduction in CO2 output at 154g/km.

Have a brother-in-law who works for Honeywell and they are putting a massive amount of R&D into small petrol engines powered by turbos or superchargers. The future is in these engines as diesel is too heavy, too polutting and too boring.

Nothing like a 1.4 with variable intake timing that will return 50mpg on a run.

My "other" car is a 1992 MX-5 with a 1.6 that I really love. Perhaps I could replace that engine with an Audio 1.4 Turbo?

Need 200hp in a supermini?

How bout this:

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2010/03/renault-clio-gordini-rs-200hp-storms.html

Too chavvy for me--but I do like the Audi 1.4 which I suspect costs well north of £25k.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Realistbear

[Guest eight]

Mazda do a 1.3 that'll do 0-60mph in 6.4s

My other half's Fiat Seicento has the 1.2 Punto engine and a few other mods - it's like driving a scalded roller skate. I'm actually a bit scared of it.

eight

[OnlyMe]

I have a 2001 Focus that we bought over 3 years ago for £3000. Dealers round here are still asking well over £2000 for the same age Focus. Doesn't seem like any kind of price crash to me.

You bought before the scrappage scheme manipulated all the pricing levels. The dealers now are trying to shift stock not bought 3 years ago but 3 months ago, that is where they are booking their losses. There is not glut of cars as what is happening is that as inflation rips through budgets fewer cars get renewed or not even replaced at all. Insurance up 20%, students with even higher debt will add to the problems at the lower end, might even see a fall in the number of registered cars on the road as demand gets squashed.

[Boomer Baby]

I have always bought Land Rover products and I would really still not consider them outside of warranty. They are nowhere near as bad as they were but they are still not without problems and they can be expensive ones. Recent problems I've had have been electrically operated handbrake failure ( Disco 3s have these - nasty thing sounds like it's been cobbled together from a cordless drill) and currently on my 8 month old car the sat nav dies if you corner violently one way and, despite repeated dealer visits, the only cure remains cornering violently the other way - which you would think ought to be an easily resolved electrical connection issue.

Two other points would be residuals/demand on Disco 3s is nuts and they are not really good value at all 6/7 year old cars still inexplicably making near 50% of new price. Also, these diesels don't like just going on school runs/short hops and a lot of problems are thought to be related to this.

Don't get me wrong, they're a very nice vehicle and it could be fine but, when things go wrong they'll go wrong expensively. Also even on the tdv6 in the 3 you don't get anything over 25mpg for anything that could be considered normal driving and the tdv8 is slightly worse - although performance is way, way better.

I've had two Range Rovers and two Land Rovers, all of which have been used off-road as well as on and I was definitely in the Land Rover "camp" for many, many years.

Yes, build quality has improved of late but there are better, cheaper and equally well-specced on-road cars and if you need the off-road capability then a Landcruiser or even a 4x4 pick-up will do the job much, much more reliably.

It's a different matter for an enthusiast pursuing a weekend hobby interest but using a Range Rover or Discovery as a daily driver is usually chancey and almost always more expensive than other choices.

As to Skoda Octavias ...... a family member has a petrol hatchback (53 plate I think) just approaching 200,000 miles. Serviced when required but otherwise just tyres and a worn suspension bush in some 8 years at 33-35 mpg.

[efdemin]

I've had two Range Rovers and two Land Rovers, all of which have been used off-road as well as on and I was definitely in the Land Rover "camp" for many, many years.

Yes, build quality has improved of late but there are better, cheaper and equally well-specced on-road cars and if you need the off-road capability then a Landcruiser or even a 4x4 pick-up will do the job much, much more reliably.

It's a different matter for an enthusiast pursuing a weekend hobby interest but using a Range Rover or Discovery as a daily driver is usually chancey and almost always more expensive than other choices.

As to Skoda Octavias ...... a family member has a petrol hatchback (53 plate I think) just approaching 200,000 miles. Serviced when required but otherwise just tyres and a worn suspension bush in some 8 years at 33-35 mpg.

I think there's a reason why so many minicabs are Skoda Octavias, wonder what it is....

[council dweller]

Sounds like you had a good 'un there! Those are the motoring prices I like!

Afraid I'm a bit more like Mr. Dweller. If I get a good one I keep it until it's scrap! And I will pay out on maintenance, if it's been looked after like your one!

I finally weakend last week and had a cambelt put on my Rover, I had visions of the wife stuck on a roundabout. I was just going to let it go until it broke!

Anyway, 200 quid wasn't bad, no new water pump as it was was spinning freely/no leaks. You can limp home with most problems but with a broken timing belt (1.4 Rover!) you know where your last journey's going to be..

[Rachman]

On why not common rail.... because if it's been misfuelled, it will, even if it didn't knacker it at the time, fail earlier. Then dual mass lfywheels, then EGR valves. Then, inlet manifolds..... - 5K is usually too old. Just buy the petrol and avoid the bills if money is an issue.

As for the Skoda for 50K a year - why pay a premium for a 20K miler - buy one that's already done 50-70K - you are destroying any residuals in it with the miles, so why pay a premium for a low miles one ? The taxi drivers buy them because they were big, cheap, economical and because Skoda did a 3 year unlimited miles warranty, even for cab drivers.... and they proved to be decent cars. So they keep buying them.

LR3 or 4. Neither. I'd buy a 57 plate new shape petrol x5 7 seater - unless you do actually go off road a lot. Or try to find a used Merc GL420 for not a lot of money. Or, for real fun, a 500 - if you don't do the miles, there's little difference in the economy, especially if you are doing short runs and the diesel isn't warmed through...

[Doctor Gloom]

Bought private a really nice black 2004 Jaguar x350 XJR six weeks ago for £7400 with twelve months tax and mot, full main dealer service history, recent service and nearly new tyres. Just done 2500k in it and overall 26 mpg. 400bhp from the 4.2 supercharged V8 makes it very responsive. All alloy body with every single extra possible including three televisions . Original cost £72k so thats a loss of £64,600 for somebody . Yep, used car prices are really down

Can I have another go in it?

[@contradevian]

Have a brother-in-law who works for Honeywell and they are putting a massive amount of R&D into small petrol engines powered by turbos or superchargers. The future is in these engines as diesel is too heavy, too polutting and too boring.

Nothing like a 1.4 with variable intake timing that will return 50mpg on a run.

Too chavvy for me--but I do like the Audi 1.4 which I suspect costs well north of £25k.

Hmm my Citroen has a fuel filter in the exhaust system. Replacing can be expensive, but I've never know a car with so little exhaust output. Unlike My old VW Passat diesel which was like a one vehicle smog system.

My Citroen 2.2 HDI returns 55 mpg on a run and runs on biodiesel @ £1.25 per litre

Cost £1200 I think,

[Take Me Back To London!]

I don't have a car, I'm not a dealer, or a mechanic.

I am an engineer however and I drive motorcycles, bicycles, or use my feet.

But, I know of many folks who bought the 93 and 95's, and by proxy found out how crap their cars are (especially the diesels) and how much it costs in spares.

You're better off getting it's little brother, a Vauxhall Vectra, because its going to cost you less as it isn't some cockamamie synergy of GM/Opel.

I was in a Saab 95 a few years ago and I was amazed how flimsy and cheap the interior was, nothing like the Saabs of 20+ years ago.

I expect the new Dutch owners of Saab will be taking it back up market again.

[Take Me Back To London!]

If I was into spending a lot on a car and wanted to keep it to a 1.4 I would go for this:

http://www.greencarsite.co.uk/GREENNEWS/audi-a3-1.4.htm

The A3 1.4 TFSI can reach 62mph from rest over one second more quickly than its 1.6 FSI predecessor at 9.6 seconds, can carry on to a 126mph top speed and has the potential to cover up to 43.5mpg (combined cycle). Despite its power, torque and performance advantage, it also registers a reduction in CO2 output at 154g/km.

Have a brother-in-law who works for Honeywell and they are putting a massive amount of R&D into small petrol engines powered by turbos or superchargers. The future is in these engines as diesel is too heavy, too polutting and too boring.

If you want a small, super smooth, powerful power plant, you want a W@nkel engine.

Listen to this turbo W@nkel, it just keeps revving and revving higher without it sounding it's been thrashed unlike a reciprocal piston engine.

Edited June 25, 2011 by Take Me Back To London!

[Take Me Back To London!]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/Glut-drives-down-used-car.6776510.jp

Interesting.

As yet I have not personally seen any slump in prices with classic cars, unlike during the early 1990's house price crash.

[cica]

Bought private a really nice black 2004 Jaguar x350 XJR six weeks ago for £7400 with twelve months tax and mot, full main dealer service history, recent service and nearly new tyres. Just done 2500k in it and overall 26 mpg. 400bhp from the 4.2 supercharged V8 makes it very responsive. All alloy body with every single extra possible including three televisions . Original cost £72k so thats a loss of £64,600 for somebody . Yep, used car prices are really down

Incredible car for the money. I've had a 540i Sport and CLK430 convertible each for £4000. The XJRs are probably the pinnacle of what you can buy though.

[FedupTeddiBear]

Intersting to read that prices are down. We're currently looking for a Mondeo size estate car, preferably diesel and no more than £5000. Any suggestions?

Some odd shapes, but in terms of price for size, try

Citroen Picasso / Peugeot 307 estate / Renault Scenic / Megane estate? First electronic models gave Renault a bad reputation (2003-4) but newer ones much better.

[profitofdoom]

Some odd shapes, but in terms of price for size, try

Citroen Picasso / Peugeot 307 estate / Renault Scenic / Megane estate? First electronic models gave Renault a bad reputation (2003-4) but newer ones much better.

Sorry you still have a shock coming if you buy a Renault.Electronics are a nightmare.A customers 57 reg Megane just blew a window regulator wiring loom,filled the car with smokeand nearly went on fire.Renault agreed to a "Goodwill contriution" of 75% but still gave her a bill for £85 on an 11k mile car.A for *****el engines,the nominal capacity is only one chamber,sadly there are three and the fuel consumption is usually down in the teens.Just what you want at six quid a gallon.

**** = the name the computer thought rude

Edited June 26, 2011 by profitofdoom

[deus ex machina]

Much appreciated. Seems good in that case. If I bought it retail I'd be asked for c £6k. I'm getting it for 2/3rds. I'll put up with the service costs. Hopefully it'll be reliable.

Now, about house prices. 2/3rds by 2013 but still expensive re long term

You got a good deal there so move on it if you want it. Ignore that other chap, he's talking out of his ****. There are numerous independent Saab technicians out there and most will compete to get your business.Before Saab went tits up it reduced its franchise network drastically in favour of super duper showrooms but concentrated in regional areas. Many long established dealers folded up their tents and let go of their mechanics, many of whom went into business on their own account and ended up servicing under contract cars for those super duper franchises. Although the network is kaput the mechanics are still there and parts will be available for years to come.

Many diehard Saab forums out there are only too happy to help if you have a problem.

As long as you don't skimp on oil you should be OK - turbos blow around 80,000 miles so might be best to extend a warranty if you can, otherwise £2,000 to replace.

[Rachman]

A for *****el engines,the nominal capacity is only one chamber,sadly there are three and the fuel consumption is usually down in the teens.Just what you want at six quid a gallon.

**** = the name the computer thought rude

plus they still use oil and a £5K one has an excellent chance of having had an owner who skimped..... plus you'll find it VERY hard to sell for anything more than the cost of a bag of chips.

A wnkael is a lovely smooth engine, but it's not practical unless you have deep pockets....