Glut Drives Down Used Car Prices

[profitofdoom]

I could buy 2006 SAAB 95 2.0t Vector Sport 46k 55 plate Demo then owner till the dealer selling to me for £3750

Good? Bad? Indifferent? Would appreciate thoughts from experts.

Potential trouble and gas guzzling 2 litre petrol turbo.Worth £3k..if you want it.

[council dweller]

Both the 1.4 and 1.6 petrols are build under license by BMW who designed it. I am impressed with the performance and the smoothness of the engine. It is clearly no ordinary Pug unit.

http://www.peugeot.com/en/innovation/engines/petrol-engines/vti-engine.aspx

Both VTi engines, the 1.6l (120 bhp) and the 1.4l (95 bhp), are the result of the co-operation between the PSA Peugeot Citroën and BMW Group as well.

The 1.6l VTi 120 bhp (Variable Valve Lift and Timing injection), launched on the 207, is an indirect injection naturally aspirated engine developing a maximum power of 88 kW (≈ 120 bhp) at 6000 rpm and a maximum torque of 160 Nm at 4250 rpm. This torque is available very uniformly, since even at low engine speeds (2,000 rpm), it attains 140 Nm, or 88 % of its maximum capacity, thereby ensuring a wide operating range. This engine’s technology, very different from that of the 1.6 THP despite the large number of common components, is a genuine first at this level of engine capacity. In addition to its variable timing system for the inlet and exhaust camshafts, a variable lift system on the inlet valves allows their maximum stroke to be adjusted gradually according to the position of the accelerator pedal.

The 1.6 is the best and if I do it agian I will go for that engine. 0-62mph comes up in 8.9 seconds which is impressive for an "ordinary" family hatch/super mini. Best small engines I have experienced and streets ahead of the competition (except anything from the Holy Trinity that is).

95 bhp from a 1.4!? Surely you jest, my 80's designed Rover produces that!

[Lagarde's Drift]

95 bhp from a 1.4!? Surely you jest, my 80's designed Rover produces that!

At nowhere the economy nor emissions. I think that's the point of these cars. Personally I'd be learning which engines take well to lpg conversion.

[efdemin]

95 bhp from a 1.4!? Surely you jest, my 80's designed Rover produces that!

Which model is it? Sounds a lot for a non-turbo'd 1.4 from back then.

[Daft Boy]

Bought private a really nice black 2004 Jaguar x350 XJR six weeks ago for £7400 with twelve months tax and mot, full main dealer service history, recent service and nearly new tyres. Just done 2500k in it and overall 26 mpg. 400bhp from the 4.2 supercharged V8 makes it very responsive. All alloy body with every single extra possible including three televisions . Original cost £72k so thats a loss of £64,600 for somebody . Yep, used car prices are really down

Edited May 30, 2011 by Daft Boy

[longtomsilver]

Which model is it? Sounds a lot for a non-turbo'd 1.4 from back then.

Could be the 214SLi

I had one and it was a fantastic car for an 18yr old at the time. No slouch potato and very nice handling.

[Rachman]

Focus has just been replaced. So of course residuals are down. 3 series just IS NOT available at that money at 3yrs/36K miles - if you can find me them, I will buy 20 of them and resell them for £12,500 each. Qashqai has just had thousands of ex-motability hit the market and supply is now free after being constrained in its first three years by keeping them in the network. Article is very misleading. Plus, because car sales have been down, used prices have been too high - especially for people paying too much of a premium for average diesels.

The 1.4 Metro was the GTi, as a single point, also available as a 103hp multipoint car. Point, squirt and lots of fun.

As for a 207 1.4 - Christ no, just no. An awful awful car - performance is dire, steering is shambolic and how do you cope with the reflection from the dial surrounds in the window ? I rented one - it was utterly utterly hateful.

At the moment, the best buy if you aren't bothered about the badge is a diesel with an enormous warranty - that's the Kia stuff - a 'Ceed 1.6 diesel with 7 years of cover. No greate shakes and poorish quality plastics, but sharpish looks and it's got kit and is safe. If I had limited budget it's what I'd be buying.

As for a Saab - they are cheap, but buy carefully and you could get a right bargain - just avoid the Edna Everage headlamped ones - for looks only...

[Realistbear]

Which model is it? Sounds a lot for a non-turbo'd 1.4 from back then.

You are right, the old Rover engines barely made 70hp and without the torque of the latest BMW designed engine that goes in the Peugeot 207 and Mini. I have found my 1.4VTI to be more than adequate with good low end torque (possibly as key as bhp) and very quiet operation at motorway speeds. I am averaging about 44 mpg overall but would guess that on a long run it would crack 50 mpg. TBH, if I had to do it over again I would have chosen the 1.6VTI as it puts out 120hp and gets the same fuel economy. But then again, I have a 1992 MX5 for those occasions when I want to waste fuel and give my ears an unhealthy blasting of noise.

[Realistbear]

Focus has just been replaced. So of course residuals are down. 3 series just IS NOT available at that money at 3yrs/36K miles - if you can find me them, I will buy 20 of them and resell them for £12,500 each. Qashqai has just had thousands of ex-motability hit the market and supply is now free after being constrained in its first three years by keeping them in the network. Article is very misleading. Plus, because car sales have been down, used prices have been too high - especially for people paying too much of a premium for average diesels.

The 1.4 Metro was the GTi, as a single point, also available as a 103hp multipoint car. Point, squirt and lots of fun.

As for a 207 1.4 - Christ no, just no. An awful awful car - performance is dire, steering is shambolic and how do you cope with the reflection from the dial surrounds in the window ? I rented one - it was utterly utterly hateful.

At the moment, the best buy if you aren't bothered about the badge is a diesel with an enormous warranty - that's the Kia stuff - a 'Ceed 1.6 diesel with 7 years of cover. No greate shakes and poorish quality plastics, but sharpish looks and it's got kit and is safe. If I had limited budget it's what I'd be buying.

As for a Saab - they are cheap, but buy carefully and you could get a right bargain - just avoid the Edna Everage headlamped ones - for looks only...

The 1.4 in old form was not a great engine in the 207. The replacement pair of variable intake petrol engines from BMW are actually very good engines and the performance is extremely good. The 207 is actually not a bad car at all and it seems to get 4 stars our of 5 by the testers including What Car and others:

http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/peugeot/207-hatchback/summary/25550-5

What Car? says4 out of 5 stars

Great all-rounder which caters well for all shapes and sizes, Peugeot's 207 supermini is refined, safe and stylish, but many models cost a bit more than their rivals.

Reader review rating ****

And the final word from Jezzer:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article675514.ece

From The Sunday Times

June 18, 2006

Peugeot 207

Breaking the law just got easier

Jeremy Clarkson

Waffle, waffle, waffle.........................

.../

Here goes. The 207 model I drove was the S version which had five doors and a 1.4 litre engine that produces some horsepower. It comes as standard with power steering, remote central locking, antilock brakes, air-conditioning, many airbags and — get this — body-coloured door handles. You know a car firm is struggling when they mention stuff like this.

To be honest, for this money I would have expected a wee bit more. Something to make me go “wow”. Sat nav perhaps, or a trip computer I could find the button for. Or a ski jump in the boot. I also would have expected a better driving position.

It may be all right if you’re a bit small and you wear flexible shoes, but in my sturdy brogues I went everywhere on the verge of cramp at 100mph, or on my way to zero mph with my nose mashed onto the windscreen.

Apart from this (Mrs Lincoln), the rest of the car was all right. I liked the dashboard very much, though not the way it was reflected in the windscreen, and I liked the ride too.

What’s more, for a 1.4, it didn’t half zoom away from the lights. Low gearing helped here

. And yet on a motorway, at 85mph, it was surprisingly serene as well.

Overall, I sort of liked it

. I liked it nearly as much as the Renault Clio and the Ford Fiesta and all the other small European cars that this sort of money will buy. Then there’s the 206 to consider. When that starts to pour out of Slovakia, it’ll be much, much cheaper.

Bottom line--for an inexpensive supermini it is tough to beat and the BMW designed engines do give it a boost. I have the SW model as I need to carry a lot of kit and carrying capacity is quite huge for such a small car. Seat fold flat and the loading bay is level without the need for lifting heavy objects over a sill.

Edited May 31, 2011 by Realistbear

[Killer Bunny]

A friend has just got rid of one for precisely that reason. It was a large estate he got in 2009 or so (one year old and about 30k miles on the clock), that broke down several times and required very expensive, main-dealer installed parts to get roadworthy again. And even though it was a diesel he only got abour 35mpg out of it. Said it was the worst car he ever owned, bar none.

thx

[Killer Bunny]

Good car and a bargain price. Avoid the diesel and make sure that you get at least the seven speaker system you'll know if it has the green screen, if not and you like listening to music in the car avoid as it is very expensive to upgrade. Also watch out for peeling dash boards and other interior plastic trim.

Thx Miyagi San

[Killer Bunny]

Potential trouble and gas guzzling 2 litre petrol turbo.Worth £3k..if you want it.

Not sure I understand

[Killer Bunny]

As for a Saab - they are cheap, but buy carefully and you could get a right bargain - just avoid the Edna Everage headlamped ones - for looks only...

Here's hoping

[tahoma]

I used to have a 4.2 Jag XJ, you are getting stupendous amount of car for the money but you are basically gambling that nothing major will go wrong with it. I was lucky, three years of luxury motoring for £1500 servicing and depreciation.

If you are interested in a second hand Jag, don't get the V8 prior to the 4.2 version as the timing chain tensioners are weak. If they go pop then the car is basically written off.

[winkie]

Could it be two car families becoming one a one car family...especially if they keep the car on the street.

...or looking ahead at new inventions of low running cost, low carbon, cars of the future coming on board...maybe for some that will be their planned new one.

[Greg Bowman]

No,it's not a supply issue but a demand one.Last year I sold 150 cars and by the end of May I had done 75.It's been downhill ever since and today I am on 30 for 2011 to date.Sales for May have been just two.I have just made my two staff redundant and gone into hibernation mode.This isn't just me the Peugeot main dealer near me sold 5 this month.

Thanks for correcting me your biz after all. Perhaps they were just putting a brave face on. Best of luck and hope it picks up.

[Greg Bowman]

Good way to rid the country of small private garages. The dealers tried to invalidate warranties if you did not use them and their outrageous hourly rates but that got shut down by the law. Now the manfucaturers are making it impossibloe to get servicing unless you own the diagnosic kit etc.

I tend to buy cars 3 or 4 years old (half price from new) and keep them 2 years and not do any servicing other than a £40 oil change. That way you avoid the £350 "service" (check the belts, top up washerflud and change the oil). Trading that often ends up costing about £1k a year which is not bad depreciation. Buy new and you lose 40% in 3 years.

Just bought a 57 plate Peugeot 207 with the BMW licensed 1.4VTI and I am getting close to 40mpg overall and the performance is actually quite excellent--can't see the advantage of Diesel TBH.

The manufacturers don't realise that by making cars more IT based they open themselves up to far greater compeition ironically from IT savvy people. There will be independents in ten years time just different shape. Not a lover personally of little back street garages - in any other business you have to startup, invest and compete so you look and feel like the bigs boys albeit cheaper and more agile. There will be plenty of work for independents if they run a business not I knows it crap but its cheap model.

[Greg Bowman]

Bought private a really nice black 2004 Jaguar x350 XJR six weeks ago for £7400 with twelve months tax and mot, full main dealer service history, recent service and nearly new tyres. Just done 2500k in it and overall 26 mpg. 400bhp from the 4.2 supercharged V8 makes it very responsive. All alloy body with every single extra possible including three televisions . Original cost £72k so thats a loss of £64,600 for somebody . Yep, used car prices are really down

Lovely what a car for £7400. However had three of these in the 90's (older model steel body) always dropped like a stone even then.

Edited May 31, 2011 by Greg Bowman

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

The 1.4 in old form was not a great engine in the 207. The replacement pair of variable intake petrol engines from BMW are actually very good engines and the performance is extremely good. The 207 is actually not a bad car at all and it seems to get 4 stars our of 5 by the testers including What Car and others:

http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/peugeot/207-hatchback/summary/25550-5

What Car? says4 out of 5 stars

Great all-rounder which caters well for all shapes and sizes, Peugeot's 207 supermini is refined, safe and stylish, but many models cost a bit more than their rivals.

Reader review rating ****

And the final word from Jezzer:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article675514.ece

From The Sunday Times

June 18, 2006

Peugeot 207

Breaking the law just got easier

Jeremy Clarkson

Waffle, waffle, waffle.........................

.../

Here goes. The 207 model I drove was the S version which had five doors and a 1.4 litre engine that produces some horsepower. It comes as standard with power steering, remote central locking, antilock brakes, air-conditioning, many airbags and — get this — body-coloured door handles. You know a car firm is struggling when they mention stuff like this.

To be honest, for this money I would have expected a wee bit more. Something to make me go “wow”. Sat nav perhaps, or a trip computer I could find the button for. Or a ski jump in the boot. I also would have expected a better driving position.

It may be all right if you’re a bit small and you wear flexible shoes, but in my sturdy brogues I went everywhere on the verge of cramp at 100mph, or on my way to zero mph with my nose mashed onto the windscreen.

Apart from this (Mrs Lincoln), the rest of the car was all right. I liked the dashboard very much, though not the way it was reflected in the windscreen, and I liked the ride too.

What’s more, for a 1.4, it didn’t half zoom away from the lights. Low gearing helped here

. And yet on a motorway, at 85mph, it was surprisingly serene as well.

Overall, I sort of liked it

. I liked it nearly as much as the Renault Clio and the Ford Fiesta and all the other small European cars that this sort of money will buy. Then there’s the 206 to consider. When that starts to pour out of Slovakia, it’ll be much, much cheaper.

Bottom line--for an inexpensive supermini it is tough to beat and the BMW designed engines do give it a boost. I have the SW model as I need to carry a lot of kit and carrying capacity is quite huge for such a small car. Seat fold flat and the loading bay is level without the need for lifting heavy objects over a sill.

You're still the only person referring to BMW engines in these horrible pugs. Where did Noel go when you need him?

[council dweller]

Could be the 214SLi

I had one and it was a fantastic car for an 18yr old at the time. No slouch potato and very nice handling.

414SLi An eighties engine design producing 95 bhp (K-series)Later models produced 101 bhp.

Used to get 42 mpg but now it just runs my wife to work at the local hospital.

Emissions? Maybe someone will tell me why I should worry?

[abaxas]

414SLi An eighties engine design producing 95 bhp (K-series)Later models produced 101 bhp.

Used to get 42 mpg but now it just runs my wife to work at the local hospital.

Emissions? Maybe someone will tell me why I should worry?

The rover K in 1.4 form is one of the best engines ever.

Plenty of power, nice torque band and no need to trash it. But when you did thrash, it went like stink.

Nothing today or even at the time can touch it, due to it being very light.

[wanttomoveon]

I'm not convinced by the Pug BMW engines at all. I had three 1.6L 307 s on lease and the last one had the BMW engine, apparently. It was much less powerful than the previous two and did less mpg. Couldn't even maintain 60mph up the hills on the A361 without dropping down to 4th. I could have sworn it was a 1.4L and, in fact, looked more like it under the bonnet vs. the owner's manual!

[fluffy666]

The manufacturers don't realise that by making cars more IT based they open themselves up to far greater compeition ironically from IT savvy people. There will be independents in ten years time just different shape. Not a lover personally of little back street garages - in any other business you have to startup, invest and compete so you look and feel like the bigs boys albeit cheaper and more agile. There will be plenty of work for independents if they run a business not I knows it crap but its cheap model.

In my experience, my 'back street' mechanic has far more idea what he is doing than the main garage people.. and he is honest enough not to try and find every last thing he can charge for at MOT/service time.

I've also have more luck with the smaller independant car dealers than the bigger ones, although it is always a bit of a gamble.

[council dweller]

The rover K in 1.4 form is one of the best engines ever.

Plenty of power, nice torque band and no need to trash it. But when you did thrash, it went like stink.

Nothing today or even at the time can touch it, due to it being very light.

Yep. (don't mention head gaskets, though I've never had one go!)

Also they're great for driving at low speed in fifth!

Btw, a tip given to me by a mechanic at the garage where I take my cars for their MOTs was to drive the last 2 or 3 miles before the MOT in 2nd at 50 or 60 mph, by doing this you can clear your C. Convertor of crap.(it becomes white hot) I've tried it a couple of times and it passes the emissions test without comment. Has anyone heard of this before?

[Realistbear]

You're still the only person referring to BMW engines in these horrible pugs. Where did Noel go when you need him?

If you google "Peugeot 1.4VTi" you will find that the motoring press are aware of the joint venture with BMW. If Jezzer likes it then it must be very good indeed! Its the most impressive 1.4 I have driven and I have driven quite a few of them over the years. Smooth, quiet, lots of low end torque, snappy acceleration from the lights (see Clarkson's comments on this in my post above). The most amazing thing is how quiet it is at motorway cruisng speeds of 75mph +.

Sad thing is when French cars start to get good but have to use German engines to get there.

http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews/car-and-driving/peugeot-207-1.4-vti-1005804.html

It's true that the Peugeot 207 is available with a bog standard 8-valve 1.4-litre engine but the 1.4 VTi isn't it. This unit has been developed by Peugeot in partnership with BMW and is also found in the German marque's entry-level MINI models. With Peugeot's reputation for producing excellent small cars and BMW's for world-leading engineering, the 207 1.4 VTi comes with quite a pedigree. 95bhp is a respectable amount to squeeze from a 1,400cc capacity powerplant and the engineers behind this unit have done it through the use of variable valve timing technology. This means that the engine actually adapts the parameters of its combustion process according to the way the 207 is being driven.