ken_ichikawa Posted September 18, 2010 Author Share Posted September 18, 2010 No wait... I just had a thought on this (mind splurging against somebody else about how they are pro banker) In that why does HMRC have to give you your money at all? In that government is currently proposing they take your gross pay then they give it back to you by presumably transfering it to YOUR bank account. In that what stops somebody from saying this is NUTS the number of BACses for instance and instead everybody has a HMRC bank account instead. All bank cards will have a VISA/Mastercard and HMRC logo on it. This means ALL transactions can be tracked, and all things you don't pay for can be tracked too and automatically be deducted. So that when you make a protest the government can directly blackmail you with all the dirt they have on you (everybody has some dirt). How willing would you to protest if your mere presence at a demonstration attracted an automatic protest fee from your HMRC controlled bank account. If you do attend they dig in your history for something that is legit but looks bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted September 18, 2010 Author Share Posted September 18, 2010 If Osbourne and his Treasury team have an atom of since they will simply sack the person who came with the idea. This assumes a certain amount of rationality within governments. Also according to Injin rules this is a method to gain absolutist totalitarian powers over people as above. Therefore this is definately going to be implemented as it will give more control to the government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicestersq Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 HMRC couldnt organise a shag in a brothel. Au contraire, never before in human history, have so many, been sh**ted, for so long, and so hard, by so few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 No wait... I just had a thought on this (mind splurging against somebody else about how they are pro banker) In that why does HMRC have to give you your money at all? In that government is currently proposing they take your gross pay then they give it back to you by presumably transfering it to YOUR bank account. In that what stops somebody from saying this is NUTS the number of BACses for instance and instead everybody has a HMRC bank account instead. All bank cards will have a VISA/Mastercard and HMRC logo on it. This means ALL transactions can be tracked, and all things you don't pay for can be tracked too and automatically be deducted. So that when you make a protest the government can directly blackmail you with all the dirt they have on you (everybody has some dirt). How willing would you to protest if your mere presence at a demonstration attracted an automatic protest fee from your HMRC controlled bank account. If you do attend they dig in your history for something that is legit but looks bad. Even better your other taxes can be deducted from that one account, and any payments you "should" have made but haven't made (licence fee et al) can be chased up at the right address. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogbrush Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 No wait... I just had a thought on this............. F*ck me, I think you're onto it there. "Revenge of the Expense Accounters" I bet Richard Desmond will be apoplectic; this would slaughter the payents to his various TV Porn channels; let's see whether the Daily Excess goes purple in the face over this (amongst the property ramping of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogbrush Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Even better your other taxes can be deducted from that one account, and any payments you "should" have made but haven't made (licence fee et al) can be chased up at the right address. Direct payments from charitable Britons to disaster relief incidents around the World everyone? Course you want to! Opt out, so you have a choice naturally. (18 months later someone leaks that it wasn't paid over). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 (edited) Even better your other taxes can be deducted from that one account, and any payments you "should" have made but haven't made (licence fee et al) can be chased up at the right address. Even the state communist bankofenglandact'ers see the need to separate the money from its ownership. Shame they expect barclays to offer this service for free. Edited September 18, 2010 by Alan B'Stard MP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 (edited) On BBC Breakfast this morning Paul Lewis from Radio 4's Money Box dropped a bombshell that confirms Injin's long held views on statists. This is not news. There was a thread on it last week. http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=150717 All that's needed is for the government to declare a state of emergency and suddenly all pay is sequestered indefinitely. And would you keep merrily working away whilst getting no pay? If you put the tax rate to 100% you raise zero tax. Google "Laffer Curve". Edited September 18, 2010 by scottbeard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Even the state communist bankofenglandact'ers see the need to separate the money from its ownership. Shame they expect barclays to offer this service for free. Do they? I thought they were changing the system so that each pound has a direct link and direct responsibility between the owner and the state, and the state is de facto owner of all? It's hard to hold someone responsible for what a bank does, after all..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 (edited) Do they? I thought they were changing the system so that each pound has a direct link and direct responsibility between the owner and the state, and the state is de facto owner of all? It's hard to hold someone responsible for what a bank does, after all..... No, I think you are right. Numbered accounts - custodian of which is the State. I must admit I have dismissed the notion already. Theres only so much you can put into grey matter and you need to be selective. Edited September 18, 2010 by Alan B'Stard MP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 No, I think you are right. Numbered accounts - custodian of which is the State. I must admit I have dismissed the notion already. Theres only so much you can put into grey matter and you need to be selective. Oh yes, it's completely mental. Hard to blame the citizen for non payment when in fact it's not their money and the banks though, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toto deVeer Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 This is interesting. There may be an ulterior motive. Do you still need banks if everything goes to the government? Is this a precursor to large scale bank defaults? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipbuilder Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 This is an interesting one for those who thought that our problems are all down to Labour's socialist ideology and the Tories would be any different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 This is an interesting one for those who thought that our problems are all down to Labour's socialist ideology and the Tories would be any different. What the Tories might or might not have done is completely unknowable. Your username gives your bias away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted September 18, 2010 Author Share Posted September 18, 2010 This is an interesting one for those who thought that our problems are all down to Labour's socialist ideology and the Tories would be any different. Such things don't matter, because they were not in power for the past 13ish years. Therefore whatever they might have done is irrelevant. Much like bribes given to tories was pointless, because they were not in a position to make good whatever it was they were to do in exchange for the bribe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 In that government is currently proposing they take your gross pay then they give it back to you by presumably transfering it to YOUR bank account. In that what stops somebody from saying this is NUTS the number of BACses for instance and instead everybody has a HMRC bank account instead. All bank cards will have a VISA/Mastercard and HMRC logo on it. This means ALL transactions can be tracked, and all things you don't pay for can be tracked too and automatically be deducted. So that when you make a protest the government can directly blackmail you with all the dirt they have on you (everybody has some dirt). Oooooooooooo conspiracy theory overload Def. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted September 18, 2010 Author Share Posted September 18, 2010 Oooooooooooo conspiracy theory overload Def. Why is it a conspiracy theory? Saying conspiracy theory does not rubbish my arguement, you're merely trying to discredit me without giving any rational arguement as to why this may not happen. Being lazy or attempting to stick a label on me. This has been proposed already. It is just thinking what they will do a couple of steps after the introduction. I've been vindicated a ton of times. Anti terrorism laws for instance. I absolutely was adament they would be abused. People called me a conspiracy theorist then too. Guess what happens these days? Anti terrorism laws get abused. 2003 in a class I predicted that parking spaces would be taxed eventually, but I found several holes in it... guess what 2010 some councils are planning to tax parking spaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Woods? Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Indeed, think of the interest they'll make..... I'm sure they have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 (edited) Then one small step and all company client payments are paid directly to HMRC - expenses paid to outside companies to be advised in advance to HMRC. Company funds held by HMRC. Before long they'll be telling companies what to pay in the way of wages and what to do to maximise tax revenue and then almost everything is effectively nationalised. It's the direct route to UK Penury 2. UK Penury 1 being where the UK is at the moment. The plan will be to trial it first in the UK for eventual export globally - probably as a global warming/money laundering initiative. Edited September 18, 2010 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipbuilder Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 What the Tories might or might not have done is completely unknowable. Your username gives your bias away. It has nothing to do with what the Tories might have done and everything to do with what they are doing now, continuing the all-powerful statist wet dream. Meet the new boss...... You give your bias away with your assumption(s) about my username. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crashman Begins Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Injin STOP giving them ideas :angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonytramcar Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 At last ! Something to put a smile on Gordon Brown's face... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 (edited) Oooooooooooo conspiracy theory overload Def. Yep...The ultimate plan is to go completely to RFID...you remove all cash...every transaction is traced...Its also very easy to "remove" you from the system.. Edited September 18, 2010 by Dave Beans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPDorsetHP Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 As draconian as it sounds if you catastrophise where all this is going, I actually quite like the idea, but would prefer it to be implemented as "half way house", where your taxed account isn't with HMRC but with a special type of current account (think of it as the opposite of an ISA). Basically, a "taxed deposit" account. If that would mean that I could employ people, and paying them was almost as simple as transferring money to their "taxed deposit" account, without any need for accountants, PAYE and NI returns then I think a lot more employment could actually be created as a result of taking away the administration burdon. There are opportunities for it to work for limited companies as well, although the set-up is obviously more complex than a personal taxed account but in general the idea of being able to do commerce without the administration overhead is appealing - and could free up all sorts of enterprise currently being held back by the administrative overhead and legislation involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Would such an idea cut tax avoidance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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