Drug Addict Benefit Withdrawal Considered

[REP013]

Wow, I can understand the thoughts behind this, however, it doesn't quite sit right in my mind?

Anyway, for those who refuse treatment, which seems fair enough, however, those that need help the most are those that think they don't?

Drug addict benefit withdrawal considered

People dependent on drugs and alcohol who refuse treatment could have their welfare benefits withdrawn under plans being considered by the Home Office.

The idea is in a consultation paper on the government's drug strategy for England, Wales and Scotland.

The proposals also suggest that addicts on benefits should not be required to seek work while receiving treatment.

Some experts have suggested that withdrawing benefits could lead addicts into crime and prostitution.

The Labour government intended to carry out pilot schemes this year to get drug users into work. / Snip /

[neil324]

I can understand why some people through circumstance get addicted, fair enough, even just the weak willed, help them out.

But to refuse treatment and expect to get paid? It sits very well with me that.

[SarahBell]

Yay!

Oh hang on - am I being mean to poor people again? Probably.

But Yay!

[ralphmalph]

The current situation is just crazy. Drug addicts get extra benefits to buy drugs. So tax payers money goes straight to drug dealers. All the drug dealers have to do is get a kid addicted send them off to the dole office to get money for drugs and then collect.

I do not see why we can not set up drug centres where addicts come for health treatment, counselling to help them get of drugs and most importantly free drugs. A lot of health problems associated with drug use are caused by the shit they are mixed with so the savings to the NHS should pay for the scheme.

At least the drug dealers would see a drop in there lifestyle.

[Selling up]

The current situation is just crazy.

Agreed. When I signed sick notes as a GP I always found it incomprehensible that somebody who had got addicted to, say, alcohol, was entitled to more benefits than someone who had refrained from getting addicted.

[dhpcza]

I'd legalise all drugs and make heroin available free, for junkies. Crack too, (though the normal form of cocaine would still have to be purchased).

Think about it, nobody cares about legality when it comes to drugs, except people that don't do drugs ie people who go and do coke on a weekend don't care whether it's legal or not. How much does it cost to police crimes committed by heroin addicts and crackheads? Better just to give them their drugs and offer them treatment if they want it. Legalise it all, tax the lot and use the tax to help out the drug addicts instead of criminalising them. Oh yeah, all that stabbing/shooting each other over drugs disappears too. Well nobody machine guns each other to death over the right to sell alcohol nowadays do they?

[Ride_on]

I'd legalise all drugs and make heroin available free, for junkies. Crack too, (though the normal form of cocaine would still have to be purchased).

Why free? It should be normal private enterprise and taxed like alcohol and cigarettes, with the proper quality control of course. We don't give alchohol and cigs away to those who are addicted to them now or are you proposing that too?

I agree with legalisation, prohibition clearly doesn't work but the gov't isn't anywhere near realising this yet.

Anyway, on the subject of benefits, you either accept that addiction is an illness or you don't. Currently the science approach is that it is an illness. This proposal is drawing on the simple idea that we don't like drug addicts, but it does seem fair that people should accept (successful) treatment for an illness if they are claiming they are too ill to work. It is wrong to focus on drug addicts, it should apply to all illnesses. The only exceptions being where the treatment success is marginal.

[right_freds_dead]

drug hospitals should be made.

take a normal high rise block of 12 floors. secure the bottom 3 floors. add large outer fence.

bottom floor security, family meeting room and admin

1st floor drug docs and councilors

2nd floor social area. pool table tv etc.

now.

take anyone totally hooked on heroin or whatever drug they like. give them a room. everyday, the doc visits and a nurse gives them the amount they want. they can stay there and be fed and housed AND get the drugs but they can never leave unless they quit. this will reduce the crime and stop new dealers starting up. its a voluntary prison. families may NOT visit until they join a quit program. non residents cannot go to any floors other than the 1st floor public meeting area which is supervised. addicts have no access to drugs other than the docs, which they can have whenever they want.

they start at the top of the building (secure windows) and as they decide to come off or try to, they work their way down. by the time they get to the 4th floors they are on programs and methadone etc until they are fit for release.

its voluntary but if you leave without quitting you can never return and have to go back to street drugs. that way it wont be used a drugs hotel for part time quitters. its ONCE ONLY. some may decide to stay all their lives. some a few years. all can get what they need without taking it from others. they can see the world outside and make that choice. the help is right there if they want it.

round em up. put em in a tower block. and sort them out.

they are the biggest victims of drug crime.

help them, we help ourselves.

.

Edited August 20, 2010 by right_freds_dead

[RufflesTheGuineaPig]

They could be got off the drugs very easily.

Just need some heated padded rooms.

Lock the addicts in their for 6 weeks. Throw them an occasional sandwich... I'd suggest cold turkey sandwiches, just to make the point.

6 weeks of hell for them will be better than a lifetime of suffering.

[right_freds_dead]

They could be got off the drugs very easily.

Just need some heated padded rooms.

Lock the addicts in their for 6 weeks. Throw them an occasional sandwich... I'd suggest cold turkey sandwiches, just to make the point.

6 weeks of hell for them will be better than a lifetime of suffering.

wont work. they will eventually go back to drugs once out. they have to work it out for themselves and first decide to quit. then try. no motivation = no quitting.

[bomberbrown]

Agreed. When I signed sick notes as a GP I always found it incomprehensible that somebody who had got addicted to, say, alcohol, was entitled to more benefits than someone who had refrained from getting addicted.

What more/type of benefits? Genuine question.

[right_freds_dead]

What more/type of benefits? Genuine question.

its called booze benefit. or BB.

you need to fill out form I.B-P1553D

Edited August 20, 2010 by right_freds_dead

[geoffk]

The current situation is just crazy. Drug addicts get extra benefits to buy drugs. So tax payers money goes straight to drug dealers. All the drug dealers have to do is get a kid addicted send them off to the dole office to get money for drugs and then collect.

I do not see why we can not set up drug centres where addicts come for health treatment, counselling to help them get of drugs and most importantly free drugs. A lot of health problems associated with drug use are caused by the shit they are mixed with so the savings to the NHS should pay for the scheme.

At least the drug dealers would see a drop in there lifestyle.

Drug addicts get extra benefits to buy drugs. ??????? Can you show me where this is true...what is the benefit called please..

this place is getting like the daily mail ...

what about the reported 4 million people who are addicted to prescription drugs just because a gp can not be arsed...

Edited August 20, 2010 by geoffk

[tiggerthetiger]

Drug addicts get extra benefits to buy drugs. ??????? Can you show me where this is true...what is the benefit called please..

this place is getting like the daily mail ...

what about the reported 4 million people who are addicted to prescription drugs just because a gp can not be arsed...

You didnt know.? Yes and some alcoholics too ! Extra benefits, just to buy the booze...

[right_freds_dead]

You didnt know.? Yes and some alcoholics too ! Extra benefits, just to buy the booze...

i know a couple of alcoholics. i dont drink hardly myself. i cant remember my last drink. 09 i think, but dam it looks hard to stop. they really try but cant help themselves. it must be awful. it can be done but i think its often underestimated how hard it is to quit drinking. if you boiled down a bottle of vodka until it became powder it would seem more like a drug. a few beers at a pub is one think. necking vodka at home alone is alcoholism.

i dont know the purpose of the extra benefit though. probably because they will buy drink first and food 2nd, so costing the taxpayer more in medical problems. better to give them more so they feed themselves to / and or their kids.

shitty situation.

Edited August 20, 2010 by right_freds_dead

[exiges]

Half of all crime is drugs motivated (source: Drugs policy foundation)

Taking away benefits will only increase crime.

So while we may save money in terms of benefits, there will be an increase in cost in terms of policing and insurance claims.. so it'll just be shifting the cost around (as well as increase misery for many innocent victims of crime)

Make drugs free.

study published in 2006 estimates the economic and social costs of Class A drug use to be around £15.4 billion in 2003/04, with an associated confidence range of between £15.3 billion and £16.1 billion.[2] Due to methodological and data improvements, the results for 2003/04 are not comparable to those for 2000. The study estimates that 327,466 problematic users are responsible for 99% of these costs, which equates to £44,231 per year per problematic drug user. The study also notes that drug-related crime costs account for 90 per cent of costs associated with problematic drug use.

Edited August 20, 2010 by exiges

[ollie plimsolls]

Drug addicts get extra benefits to buy drugs. ??????? Can you show me where this is true...what is the benefit called please..

this place is getting like the daily mail ...

what about the reported 4 million people who are addicted to prescription drugs just because a gp can not be arsed...

Incapacity Benefit

[pete.hpc]

I'd legalise all drugs and make heroin available free, for junkies. Crack too, (though the normal form of cocaine would still have to be purchased).

Think about it, nobody cares about legality when it comes to drugs, except people that don't do drugs ie people who go and do coke on a weekend don't care whether it's legal or not. How much does it cost to police crimes committed by heroin addicts and crackheads? Better just to give them their drugs and offer them treatment if they want it. Legalise it all, tax the lot and use the tax to help out the drug addicts instead of criminalising them. Oh yeah, all that stabbing/shooting each other over drugs disappears too. Well nobody machine guns each other to death over the right to sell alcohol nowadays do they?

spot on

[dryrot]

i know a couple of alcoholics. i dont drink hardly myself. i cant remember my last drink. 09 i think, but dam it looks hard to stop. they really try but cant help themselves. it must be awful. it can be done but i think its often underestimated how hard it is to quit drinking. if you boiled down a bottle of vodka until it became powder it would seem more like a drug. a few beers at a pub is one think. necking vodka at home alone is alcoholism.

shitty situation.

true, and this fantasy of addiction as an "illness" just makes it worse. Addiction is a choice, and should not be subsidised by the state.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Addiction-Choice-Jeffrey-Schaler/dp/081269404X, BTW

http://www.peele.net

Both the above have helped me.

[john_coller]

What more/type of benefits? Genuine question.

I think it counts as a disability, so DLA.

[geoffk]

Incapacity Benefit

WRONG..this is not for buying drugs or ale....someone willing to show me this benefit and where it is on-line? surely someone knows where the drugs or ale benefit is on-line..... unless the op is trying to customise his argument?

[MrP]

The main problem with drugs is that they rarely kill the users fast enough, so they have time to commit crime to fund their habits.

I think the only pragmatic solution is to legalise it and tax it. This should help acheive the following:

• 
  

Bring the costs down for the user and therefore reduce the need for crime to support the habit.

Make being a dealer/pusher no longer worthwhile.

The tax could be used to fund treatment and education to reduce the problem.

Take the rebellion/kudos incentive away.

[REP013]

WRONG..this is not for buying drugs or ale....someone willing to show me this benefit and where it is on-line? surely someone knows where the drugs or ale benefit is on-line..... unless the op is trying to customise his argument?

The OP lifted the title straight from the BBC website - "Drug Addict Benefit Withdrawal Considered".

However, could you consider the fact that a heroin addict is and can be prescribed heroin substitutions such as methadone as a "benefit" and being "ill" on IB or similar would get their prescriptions free - hence benefit.

I'm still not sure this idea of stopping benefits sits right with me, as a smoker I know I couldn't quit unless I wanted to and even then couldn't be sure to have the required willpower.

I do, however, agree with the others who say legalise and tax - that would be my solution were I wielding the stick.

Edited August 20, 2010 by REP013

[Selling up]

The benefit I'm talking about (as a GP until recently) was incapacity benefit. Alcohol or drug misuse entitled one to a sick note which entitled one to incapacity benefit.

I didn't mean that an addict got more benefit than another 'sick' person. I meant that an addict got a benefit (incapacity) which someone in otherwise the same position who abstained from drugs and alcohol would not.

(Edit: and this implies also that somebody who cleaned up would lose a benefit; hardly an incentive to change)

However I've not worked as a GP for over a year now; I believe the name of the benefit has changed in the meantime.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Selling up

[jonb]

What more/type of benefits? Genuine question.

Whatever benefit disabled people get