How Can Ba Staff Keep Faith With Derek Simpson?

[buzzardo]

Is it just me or does Willie Walsh and possibly Michael O'Leary wish to get all of their staff costs down to minimum wage so that the state can help support them?

Just a thought.

Why are you lumping Willie Walsh and Michael O'Leary in the same sentence? I genuinely don't get it, and trust me I'm - historically at least - not a great fan of "Oor Wullie."

Think about the real comparison for a moment...

One was recently a co-pilot (being a fully qualified flyer) onboard the first flight from their own airline, that went up to check out whether or not planes could fly through the volcanic ash. That suggests he knows something about Leadership, regardless of whether or not you like him personally (I can take him or leave him, but that single act really made me think...)

The other is a whining tattymuncher, who wants the rules changed when they don't suit him, who treats his "customers" with utter contempt, and wants to charge them a quid for a shit, because "if you take out two toilets you can get an extra six seats in..." What a c**t

Sorry, but I think the two need to be separated, in any discussion that involves the words "grown up" "airline" "respect" "Customer" and - most importantly - "SUSTAINABLE BUSINESS MODEL"

Just my two cents. Or is that my one-fiftieth of a crap?

B

[Blod]

It was just that BA prepared for this dispute and as such don’t expect to lose. They’re rumoured to have pilots as the next target in their sights. Willie has history.

I hope this isn’t so as it’d be disappointing to see out national carrier ruined.

[buzzardo]

It was just that BA prepared for this dispute and as such don't expect to lose. They're rumoured to have pilots as the next target in their sights. Willie has history.

I hope this isn't so as it'd be disappointing to see out national carrier ruined.

Go on, substantiate those assertions. Because I simply don't believe you.

"Rumoured to have pilots as the next target in their sights. Willie has history."

Based on what precisely? Willie Walsh is one of the few CEO's in the airline industry who can actually fly a plane. He knows what the real deal is up there in the clouds - would you rather have Branson or O'C**ty at the controls of your 747 - I don't frigging think so...

"It'd be disappointing to see our national carrier ruined..."

Ditto - go on, explain precisely how Willie Walsh has that on his agenda, assuming you can take your Unite spectacles off?

Sorry, but your two hypotheses have absolultey f**k all credibility, unless you can provide proper evidence to the contrary.

And no (as most regular posters here will know,) I'm not from BA's PR department. I'm just a long-standing business traveller who knows just HOW crap it can get, when people don't give a sh!t about their passengers, or feel able to lie about their safety record for commercial reasons.

B

[Blod]

Sorry Buzzardo I didn’t mean to upset you, as I had mentioned in the post this is only what I was told by someone on the inside of the industry. My initial thoughts were that typical of historical industrial relations Unite were going to ruin BA out of spite.

Sadly Mr Walsh’s job is as their CEO not a mere pilot. I’ve know many people who started out on the shop floor and then worked their way up. They then cuts cost and the quality of their companies products/services. All he’s trying to do is re-position BA in the market place. Historically look at how he turned round Aer Lingus. As has been mention already Derek Simpson is retiring and wants to play at being Bob Crow.

The biggest individual staff cost for any airline is its pilots. All of them would like to cut that. It was that that was told to me as the final target for cost cutting in the industry. As you rightly note, though can’t substantiate, some feel able to lie about their safety record for commercial reasons. Reduced pilots pay must impact eventually that.

Anyway just my thoughts, sorry I upset you, peace.

[buzzardo]

Sorry Buzzardo I didn't mean to upset you, as I had mentioned in the post this is only what I was told by someone on the inside of the industry. My initial thoughts were that typical of historical industrial relations Unite were going to ruin BA out of spite.

Sadly Mr Walsh's job is as their CEO not a mere pilot. I've know many people who started out on the shop floor and then worked their way up. They then cuts cost and the quality of their companies products/services. All he's trying to do is re-position BA in the market place. Historically look at how he turned round Aer Lingus. As has been mention already Derek Simpson is retiring and wants to play at being Bob Crow.

The biggest individual staff cost for any airline is its pilots. All of them would like to cut that. It was that that was told to me as the final target for cost cutting in the industry. As you rightly note, though can't substantiate, some feel able to lie about their safety record for commercial reasons. Reduced pilots pay must impact eventually that.

Anyway just my thoughts, sorry I upset you, peace.

Hi Blod.

I tried to edit my original post, after reading some of your other posts which I thought were balanced and enlightening - but blooming Firefox seems to limit that facility rather badly

It's worth noting that there are a whole bunch of VI's who come on here, spouting one-message vitriol and then disappearing, so I may have made some hasty assumptions around your limited posting history.

Having said that, I don't think it's in Willie Walsh's interests - either personal, professional, or alumni-wise (is that a word?!) to run BA into the ground. And having seen that semi-literate Unite dickhead on the TV last night, trying to defend the indefensible, I may have been a wee bit polemical in my response.

So in retrospect I also apologise if I upset you... And as you say, Peace. And I hope you'll accept that in the conciliatory spirit it's offered.

Onwards and upwards to a better world, I hope; however we may get there.

Take care.

B

[Guest absolutezero]

Sorry Buzzardo I didn’t mean to upset you, as I had mentioned in the post this is only what I was told by someone on the inside of the industry. My initial thoughts were that typical of historical industrial relations Unite were going to ruin BA out of spite.

Sadly Mr Walsh’s job is as their CEO not a mere pilot. I’ve know many people who started out on the shop floor and then worked their way up. They then cuts cost and the quality of their companies products/services. All he’s trying to do is re-position BA in the market place. Historically look at how he turned round Aer Lingus. As has been mention already Derek Simpson is retiring and wants to play at being Bob Crow.

The biggest individual staff cost for any airline is its pilots. All of them would like to cut that. It was that that was told to me as the final target for cost cutting in the industry. As you rightly note, though can’t substantiate, some feel able to lie about their safety record for commercial reasons. Reduced pilots pay must impact eventually that.

Anyway just my thoughts, sorry I upset you, peace.

Blimey. Buzzardo nearly exploded there.

Would loved to have seen the veins in his temple while he posted that.

[wombat999]

Iagree the unite vote was more democratic than the general election.

The judge, on a whim, made up a rule that this was not sufficient.

The UNITE vote was far more democratic than the UK general election.

Twice now, members have voted overwhelmingly for a strike, but it seems that this is not now possible in the UK.

[SarahBell]

The judge, on a whim, made up a rule that this was not sufficient.

Have you ever taken part in a strike ballot?

[Cogs]

The industrial action is starting to work although possibly with consequences that the Union might not have considered.

My family of four are all BA silver or gold members as we fly quite a lot. We stood by BA during the putative strikes in December. We stood by them again during the actual strikes in March. We just came back from Egypt this week during a "quiet" strike period this week.

We are going to fly VS on our next trips from early June until the end of September due to the strike risk.

As predicted by some, the Union are going to destroy themselves and BA simultaneously.

The situation is however that for most of us it would be a good thing if they took one for the team and destroyed BA and wiped out the shareholders. People think Maggie taught the unions a lesson, and maybe she did, but not the one they were thinking of. Its MAD or nothing, anything short of going all in is pointless. Tear it all down, leave nothing standing and then salt the earth. And then nuke it from orbit obviously.

Edited May 19, 2010 by Cogs

[1929crash]

Have you ever taken part in a strike ballot?

I have, voted no, and I still have the result on a piece of paper. It includes votes cast, votes yes, and votes no.

[ken_ichikawa]

As predicted by some, the Union are going to destroy themselves and BA simultaneously.

And what is wrong with this?

Why anybody would be dumb enough to use BA in the first place is beyond me, when booking on expedia they are always somewhere near the top end of prices for a service no different from Air france Qatar or whatever.

They expect the government to bail them out though, bit like JAL its on its 3rd bail out package now.

[wombat999]

Have you ever taken part in a strike ballot?

YES I HAVE.

[Goat]

The situation is however that for most of us it would be a good thing if they took one for the team and destroyed BA and wiped out the shareholders. People think Maggie taught the unions a lesson, and maybe she did, but not the one they were thinking of. Its MAD or nothing, anything short of going all in is pointless. Tear it all down, leave nothing standing and then salt the earth. And then nuke it from orbit obviously.

So you think that to prove a point they should wipe out the business, the shareholders (i.e. what's left of the private sector pension system) and get everyone who works there the sack.

And you wonder why you and your ilk get a hard time on this site.

[Cogs]

So you think that to prove a point they should wipe out the business, the shareholders (i.e. what's left of the private sector pension system) and get everyone who works there the sack.

And you wonder why you and your ilk get a hard time on this site.

Ideally not, but management are unfortunately just as ruthless. There is only one language they understand.

[Riedquat]

Ideally not, but management are unfortunately just as ruthless. There is only one language they understand.

+1

It's depressing the amount of "screw 'em" attitutde towards the staff and unions on here. The fact that unions seem to expect that their members should get paid a fortune and never actually bother doing any work seems to make some people think that instead the staff should happily bend over and take whatever the management gives them (or come up with some crap about "find another job" - only a fair point if it's as easy to find another job as it is to get rid of someone). They're both as bad as each other a lot of the time, but a tug of war is needed between them to stop thing going to either extreme.

[Cogs]

+1

It's depressing the amount of "screw 'em" attitutde towards the staff and unions on here. The fact that unions seem to expect that their members should get paid a fortune and never actually bother doing any work seems to make some people think that instead the staff should happily bend over and take whatever the management gives them (or come up with some crap about "find another job" - only a fair point if it's as easy to find another job as it is to get rid of someone). They're both as bad as each other a lot of the time, but a tug of war is needed between them to stop thing going to either extreme.

Thats about the strength of it. What the muppets here can't quite bring themselves to believe is that when there are strikes on, management tell lies! It amazes me that TFHers who see a conspiracy under every pebble on the beach are suddenly obedient true believers in the face of the most blatant nonsense spoken by a rich man in a suit I think sheeple is probably a bit generous, I'm thinking of something a bit more bovine.

Edited May 19, 2010 by Cogs

[SHERWICK]

Ideally not, but management are unfortunately just as ruthless. There is only one language they understand.

It's M.A.D. then.

Rest assured, the only people that will be hurt will be the workers. The 'management' will more than likely find other jobs.

[Cogs]

It's M.A.D. then.

Rest assured, the only people that will be hurt will be the workers. The 'management' will more than likely find other jobs.

Well the idea behind MAD is that nobody gets hurt, but you have to be prepared to do it or it doesn't work.

[Goat]

Ideally not, but management are unfortunately just as ruthless. There is only one language they understand.

More militant non-sense.

Their job is to run the company well and to generate a thriving business, that's what they're judged on. That means paying the workers a fair wage rather than the ridiculous pay and perks some in BA think they're entitled to.

Of course the management do understand Unite's language of self interest for a small number of people at the expense of the vast majority. It's the militants like you that don't understand what's going on.

It's simple, either adapt to the modern world or go and find jobs in a different industry, because once BA goes down I seriously doubt the other carriers will be interested in recruiting ex-BA agitators (imagine that on your CV - hello I've helped trash one airline, can you give me a job with yours).

[Goat]

Well the idea behind MAD is that nobody gets hurt, but you have to be prepared to do it or it doesn't work.

Except the problem with MAD is that sometimes you get a maniac in charge and you want to launch the missiles for a laugh.

Edited May 19, 2010 by Goat

[Cogs]

More militant non-sense.

Their job is to run the company well and to generate a thriving business, that's what they're judged on.  That means paying the workers a fair wage rather than the ridiculous pay and perks some in BA think they're entitled to.

Of course the management do understand Unite's language of self interest for a small number of people at the expense of the vast majority.  It's the militants like you that don't understand what's going on.

It's simple, either adapt to the modern world or go and find jobs in a different industry, because once BA goes down I seriously doubt the other carriers will be interested in recruiting ex-BA agitators (imagine that on your CV - hello I've helped trash one airline, can you give me a job with yours).

Executives aren't judged on anything, there is no correlation between their performance (within any measurable variable) and their pay. BA are paying someone a million pounds a year to destroy their company for example.

Of course the management do understand Unite's language of self interest for a small number of people at the expense of the vast majority.

Well yes, that sort of thing is normally their prerogative isn't it (see above).

[SHERWICK]

Well the idea behind MAD is that nobody gets hurt, but you have to be prepared to do it or it doesn't work.

Unfortunately for the militants, MAD won't work as they think it will.

Yes BA will fold, and yes they'll all lose their jobs.

However, the Senior Management in BA will all find find jobs again *very* easily. But, the militants that took down BA wont - as GOAT said 'I seriously doubt the other carriers will be interested in recruiting ex-BA agitators (imagine that on your CV - hello I've helped trash one airline, can you give me a job with yours)'.

Ho hum, it's up to them.

Can someone tell me just what *precisely* are the terrible things that BA management is doing to make all these people go on strike?

[Riedquat]

Of course the management do understand Unite's language of self interest for a small number of people at the expense of the vast majority. It's the militants like you that don't understand what's going on.

That sounds exactly like the management's attitude to me. Do you really see things from such a one-sided point of view?

[Executive Sadman]

1. He's one of 'them'

2. Theyve never heard of false prophets.

Basically, he tells them what they want to hear. They prefer delusion to reality. Same reason people tolerated Snot Gobbler for so long.

[Cogs]

Ho hum, it's up to them.

Can someone tell me just what *precisely* are the terrible things that BA management is doing to make all these people go on strike?

Right now? Not a lot. UNITE pretty much have what they came for. Travel perks and vindictive disciplinary action against 50 people remains. Usually when industrial action ends both sides drop the nonsense like that, usually in the interests of future good relations etc. Willie thinks he knows better. Its mostly the personal pride of one man now, nothing especially relevant to the running of the airline, and BA shareholders will just have to bleed until either he grows up or they make him grow up.