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Sledgehead

How Can Ba Staff Keep Faith With Derek Simpson?

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If I were a stand oop doin the workin men's clubs circuit oop narth, I'd be tempted to point out in an easy, South Yarkshire drawl, that the twinkly-eyed icon of industrial action, for all his effortless charm and laid back manner, is no more useful than a canary in a call centre.

Down tools for a second, brothers and sisters, and allow me to point out that a strike, being the absence of work, constitutes to a greater of lesser extent, the square root of fook all. I need not also remind you that Derek, the doyen of the donkey jacket, has so far attempted and failed to organise two strikes on behalf of Unite members.

This being as it is, one could take these two pieces of information, and through a process of deduction, confidently assert that Derek Simpson has tried, not once, but twice, to organise, in essence, nothing, and failed on both occasions. It must be reet heartenin' to know all those union subs that pay his £130k pa wage are bein' put to such good use.

The big man retires in december, most likely on final salary, index linked.

Edited by Sledgehead

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You can't blame Simpson for the class warfare mentality of the judges.

well that just highlights theyd be better off brown enveloping the judges 130K a year and doesnt change the fact that paying Simpson has been pointless

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You can't blame Simpson for the class warfare mentality of the judges.

Really?

He knew waht he was up against after the first strike was blocked. If he was doing his job ( job? ) he'd have gone thru every aspect of procedure, dotted the 'i's and crossed the 't's. Instead, a bunch of BA lawyers have given him a lesson on his own constitution. I call that humiliating and incompetent.

Edited by Sledgehead

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If I were a stand oop doin the workin men's clubs circuit oop narth, I'd be tempted to point out in an easy, South Yarkshire drawl, that the twinkly-eyed icon of industrial action, for all his effortless charm and laid back manner, is no more useful than a canary in a call centre.

Down tools for a second, brothers and sisters, and allow me to point out that a strike, being the absence of work, constitutes to a greater of lesser extent, the square root of fook all. I need not also remind you that Derek, the doyen of the donkey jacket, has so far attempted and failed to organise two strikes on behalf of Unite members.

This being as it is, one could take these two pieces of information, and through a process of deduction, confidently assert that Derek Simpson has tried, not once, but twice, to organise, in essence, nothing, and failed on both occasions. It must be reet heartenin' to know all those union subs that pay his £130k pa wage are bein' put to such good use.

The big man retires in december, most likely on final salary, index linked.

The industrial action is starting to work although possibly with consequences that the Union might not have considered.

My family of four are all BA silver or gold members as we fly quite a lot. We stood by BA during the putative strikes in December. We stood by them again during the actual strikes in March. We just came back from Egypt this week during a "quiet" strike period this week.

We are going to fly VS on our next trips from early June until the end of September due to the strike risk.

As predicted by some, the Union are going to destroy themselves and BA simultaneously.

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The industrial action is starting to work although possibly with consequences that the Union might not have considered.

...

As predicted by some, the Union are going to destroy themselves and BA simultaneously.

I pointed out on another thread that in 1975, Hugh Scanlon and Jack Jones, both trade union leaders, insisted their workers were suffering as a result of attempts by the then Labour government to restrain pay. In that same year average earnings were up 27.6%. When Healley went to the IMF the following year he proudly announced he had managed to restrain pay growth to,,,, wait for it ... 16%.

The likes of Simpson don't care how far we price ourselves out of the world or what the consequences are. They have their fat salaries and index linked final salary pensions. Why would they?

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The industrial action is starting to work although possibly with consequences that the Union might not have considered.

My family of four are all BA silver or gold members as we fly quite a lot. We stood by BA during the putative strikes in December. We stood by them again during the actual strikes in March. We just came back from Egypt this week during a "quiet" strike period this week.

We are going to fly VS on our next trips from early June until the end of September due to the strike risk.

As predicted by some, the Union are going to destroy themselves and BA simultaneously.

Ditto. Long-standing BA Gold Card holder. Now flying CO, UA, Delta, SAA, QAR to my projects in the next six months.

Not VS, clearly. Used to work for them, and know too much about what (allegedly, of course) stopped the "flotation that never was" dead in it's tracks in the late 90's to risk my skin with them.

Nothing to do with planes bellyflopping on the runway at LGW, obviously :ph34r:

No, I said NOTHING to do with it... :ph34r::blink:

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7482 union members voted to strike; the Judge granted the injunction on the "grounds" that Unite did not inform members of 11 spoilt ballot papers.

The judiciary are taking the p!ss.

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Whether class warfare of Simpsons incompetence, something is going very wrong for the union. Walsh must be laughing his ass off, but not for long. His actions will enrage many. Thousands wanted a strike, and yet it fails AGAIN. One things for sure, once the union gets its act together Walsh is yesterdays man.

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7482 union members voted to strike; the Judge granted the injunction on the "grounds" that Unite did not inform members of 11 spoilt ballot papers.

The judiciary are taking the p!ss.

Either the law requires this to be done correctly or it doesn't. Why blame the judiciary?

This is left wing crap as ever was - if it doesn't go your way, use words like technicality, class war, and fairness. If a union used a legal 'technicality' to its advantage, would you be horrified?

I hope BA goes bust. The company and the union both deserve it. I am doing my bit by avoiding BA permanently and i encourage others to do the same.

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7482 union members voted to strike; the Judge granted the injunction on the "grounds" that Unite did not inform members of 11 spoilt ballot papers.

The judiciary are taking the p!ss.

Even though I agree with other posters' criticisms of Unite for going on strike in the first place, I do also agree with the above analysis. Furthermore, the fact that BA didn't challenge the previous strike ballot on the grounds of notification of the number of spoilt ballot papers should have persuaded the judge not to let them use this excuse this time. After all, if BA considered Unite's method of notification fair and acceptable last time, why is it unfair and unacceptable this time?

There are arguments in favour of outlawing strikes in strategically important industries and services, but if you're going to do that it should be done openly and through an act of Parliament, not in an unaccountable way with judges establishing case law. Not even BA is suggesting that this ballot was conducted in an unfair way and that the injunction is based on anything more than a technicality. The right to strike, for most workers, is an established part of British law, including the right to a stupid and unreasonable strike that'll put you on the dole queue. If that right is to be downgraded or even withdrawn, it has to be done in an open and democratic way that can be challenged (and if they're subsequently re-elected, repealed) by the opposition party.

It's pretty clear that sooner or later there is going to be more striking. It's in everyone's interests to just let Unite get on with it and cook their goose. Partly due to strikes and partly due to atrocious service, I have not used BA since 2004, and am now racking up 100k miles a year or so on my KLM card (though another part of the reason is that BA now have next to no service from any airports outside London). A lot of other BA customers are going elsewhere because they don't want the hassle and the unreliability: this state of affairs is going to continue until Unite's campaign has either been neutered or BA has gone bust. Rather than prolong the agony, Walsh should just call their bluff, let them strike and see who is still left standing at the end.

Edited by The Ayatollah Buggeri

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Either the law requires this to be done correctly or it doesn't. Why blame the judiciary?

This is left wing crap as ever was - if it doesn't go your way, use words like technicality, class war, and fairness. If a union used a legal 'technicality' to its advantage, would you be horrified?

I hope BA goes bust. The company and the union both deserve it. I am doing my bit by avoiding BA permanently and i encourage others to do the same.

Using the same criteria as the judge, how many ballots for MP were legal?

Nobody, least of all Willie Walsh, argued that anyone who was entitled to vote, was deprived of a vote.

This is not a judge interpreting the law, it's a judge making it up.

Next time it'll be "Sorry, Mr Union Man, but it was raining when you announced the result."

Judges frequently make up the law. The fact that you don't recognise this in your opening statement shows you are not aware of this fundamental fact.

Sorry, but whether you like it or not, the right to strike is part of an open and democratic society. ;)

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Using the same criteria as the judge, how many ballots for MP were legal?

Nobody, least of all Willie Walsh, argued that anyone who was entitled to vote, was deprived of a vote.

This is not a judge interpreting the law, it's a judge making it up.

Next time it'll be "Sorry, Mr Union Man, but it was raining when you announced the result."

Judges frequently make up the law. The fact that you don't recognise this in your opening statement shows you are not aware of this fundamental fact.

Sorry, but whether you like it or not, the right to strike is part of an open and democratic society. ;)

These Union people get paid well to get it right, they didn't, technicality or not.

Spending their time getting it right now would be better than whingeing now.

It looks like they couldn't organise a **** up at the moment

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One things for sure, once the union gets its act together Walsh is yesterdays man.

I think Walsh is tomorrow's man.

If the unions persist with their madness (I know loads of BA employees - grew up within earshot of the runways at Heathrow) - I can see BA going into voluntary liquidation - all staff lose their jobs - get bought for a £1 - resurrected as BA2010 - and new staff hired on current industry pay and conditions.

A lot of the new staff will be the old staff - just on half the pay and perks.

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I think Walsh is tomorrow's man.

If the unions persist with their madness (I know loads of BA employees - grew up within earshot of the runways at Heathrow) - I can see BA going into voluntary liquidation - all staff lose their jobs - get bought for a £1 - resurrected as BA2010 - and new staff hired on current industry pay and conditions.

A lot of the new staff will be the old staff - just on half the pay and perks.

If the staff are that hard done by why don't they leave and get a better job elsewhere?

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7482 union members voted to strike; the Judge granted the injunction on the "grounds" that Unite did not inform members of 11 spoilt ballot papers.

The judiciary are taking the p!ss.

Assuming that Simpson is telling the truth, which must happen occasionally. :rolleyes:

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These Union people get paid well to get it right, they didn't, technicality or not.

Spending their time getting it right now would be better than whingeing now.

It looks like they couldn't organise a **** up at the moment

The judge simply made up a rule! Made it up! How can you adhere to rules that only exist in the future?

This is like Franz Kafaka's The Trial and Philip K Dick's Minority Report rolled into one.

Edited by 1929crash

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Why not VA?

VS is Virgin's IATA code. There must have been a VA at some point in IATA's history.

There are a few other wierd ones. SQ for Sinapore Airlines, QF for Qantas etc.

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The rules are there.

Surely there's a set of the rules on his desk - and perhaps even forms he can send to the printers with all the info he needs on?

It isn't beyond the wisdom of anyone to thnk that BA would again make sure every letter of the law was followed in calling the strike.

He needs to be replaced by someone who can at least follow the strike calling guidelines to the letter.

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The judge simply made up a rule! Made it up! How can you adhere to rules that only exist in the future?

This is like Franz Kafaka's The Trial and Philip K Dick's Minority Report rolled into one.

+1.

Read up on statute and precedent if you don’t understand this.

IMO, there is a clear message here that BA are too big too fail! However, the employees aren’t too important to get their same salary/bonuses, unlike the banks.

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BA staff are likea lot of NHS workers and teachers I've met,in that they believe they could all earn a small fortune in the private sector(possibly abroad as there's such a demand for them) if they were willing to compromise on their principles and leave the taxpayers teat.

Think you've missed out a couple of words.

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  • 259 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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