Student Tuition Fees 'could Rise To £14,000

[Guest The Relaxation Suite]

The Labour Party's policies of 1997-2010 now mean that only rich families will be able to send their young to university. Under new plans fees for some courses could rise to £14,000 per year. This would mean a three year degree will cost £42,000 for the fees alone. If one incorporates accommodation fees, living expenses and books the full cost of a degree could easily reach at least £50,000, probably more like £60,000.

Obviously this is far too much for an 18 year old to borrow with no guarantee of decent employment, so this effectively takes us back to the time when only wealthy families got to go to university, took up all the best jobs and perpetuated the educational and professional elite.

Thanks Labour.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/7668551/Student-tuition-fees-could-rise-to-14000.html

[okaycuckoo]

Many would be better of working anyway. Except there will be no jobs.

[buzzardo]

The Labour Party's policies of 1997-2010 now mean that only rich families will be able to send their young to university. Under new plans fees for some courses could rise to £14,000 per year. This would mean a three year degree will cost £42,000 for the fees alone. If one incorporates accommodation fees, living expenses and books the full cost of a degree could easily reach at least £50,000, probably more like £60,000.

Obviously this is far too much for an 18 year old to borrow with no guarantee of decent employment, so this effectively takes us back to the time when only wealthy families got to go to university, took up all the best jobs and perpetuated the educational and professional elite.

Thanks Labour.

http://www.telegraph...e-to-14000.html

Liebour.

"The party of social mobility."

Like F**k. Utter c**ts

Die In Pain on 6 May....

[lulu]

The Labour Party's policies of 1997-2010 now mean that only rich families will be able to send their young to university. Under new plans fees for some courses could rise to £14,000 per year. This would mean a three year degree will cost £42,000 for the fees alone. If one incorporates accommodation fees, living expenses and books the full cost of a degree could easily reach at least £50,000, probably more like £60,000.

Obviously this is far too much for an 18 year old to borrow with no guarantee of decent employment, so this effectively takes us back to the time when only wealthy families got to go to university, took up all the best jobs and perpetuated the educational and professional elite.

Thanks Labour.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/7668551/Student-tuition-fees-could-rise-to-14000.html

No doubt if your parents are chav idiots you will not only be granted a place despite having the economic creditials of a fruiit fly but your fees will be paid and grants provided.

[blackhole]

I'm confused. So apparently we're running out of good skilled people throughout many industries. And yet these lords (some of whom no doubt had a free education on the tax payer if they turned up at the correct time!) believe offering education to those who's parents will fund it, is the way forward?

Am I missing something here...?!

[lulu]

I'm confused. So apparently we're running out of good skilled people throughout many industries. And yet these lords (some of whom no doubt had a free education on the tax payer if they turned up at the correct time!) believe offering education to those who's parents will fund it, is the way forward?

Am I missing something here...?!

Dunno, but I am firmly of the opinion that scaling back the University system to provide proper degrees to the best qualified young people would be the best idea.

For the less academically gifted there should be be other far more worthwhile (for them) training available.

What is the real purpose of this imaginary 50% of kids going to University?

Oh and while they are at it they should bring some real standards back into the A-Level and Higher (in Scotland) exams. Now it appears that everyone can now get straight A's which hardly helps the Universities selecting the best students for 'proper'* courses.

* by proper I mean medicine, law, veterinary, physics, engineering, maths and other degrees that a proper economy should be encourging.

[Sibley's Love Child]

The Labour Party's policies of 1997-2010 now mean that only rich families will be able to send their young to university. Under new plans fees for some courses could rise to £14,000 per year. This would mean a three year degree will cost £42,000 for the fees alone. If one incorporates accommodation fees, living expenses and books the full cost of a degree could easily reach at least £50,000, probably more like £60,000.

Obviously this is far too much for an 18 year old to borrow with no guarantee of decent employment, so this effectively takes us back to the time when only wealthy families got to go to university, took up all the best jobs and perpetuated the educational and professional elite.

Thanks Labour.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/7668551/Student-tuition-fees-could-rise-to-14000.html

Such a cynic; just think of all those doors opened up by having a degree....

Ironic really, New Labour have regressed society a few decades by making education the preserve of the rich. Things can only get better.

[buzzardo]

I'm confused. So apparently we're running out of good skilled people throughout many industries. And yet these lords (some of whom no doubt had a free education on the tax payer if they turned up at the correct time!) believe offering education to those who's parents will fund it, is the way forward?

Am I missing something here...?!

Forgive me for mentioning it, but the concept of providing education, for one's children, isn't going to be that central on Lord Mandelslimy radar.

So don't expect stuff relating to "parenting," or "having kids" to be on the NueLiebour policy slate....

But maybe - allegedly - tax breaks for silken-skinned dusky boys, to get nice degrees in Political Studies, will be central to the manifesto.

B

[blackhole]

Dunno, but I am firmly of the opinion that scaling back the University system to provide proper degrees to the best qualified young people would be the best idea.

For the less academically gifted there should be be other far more worthwhile (for them) training available.

What is the real purpose of this imaginary 50% of kids going to University?

Oh and while they are at it they should bring some real standards back into the A-Level and Higher (in Scotland) exams. Now it appears that everyone can now get straight A's which hardly helps the Universities selecting the best students for 'proper'* courses.

* by proper I mean medicine, law, veterinary, physics, engineering, maths and other degrees that a proper economy should be encourging.

I'm actually not against reducing the numbers on the whole at all, and as said, encouraging core sciences.

However it needs to be done in such a way that someone who's family cant afford to fork out potentially £14k/yr in fees but has the academic track record, can still do a science degree and hopefully put that education to some use afterwards. None of which has been even touched upon yet. As per usual, those at the top not giving a **** about social mobility.

Edited May 2, 2010 by blackhole

[RufflesTheGuineaPig]

I'm actually not against reducing the numbers on the whole at all, and as said, encouraging core sciences.

However it needs to be done in such a way that someone who's family cant afford to fork out potentially £14k/yr in fees but has the academic track record, can still do a science degree and hopefully put that education to some use afterwards. None of which has been even touched upon yet. As per usual, those at the top not giving a **** about social mobility.

We need to reduce numbers, but it has to be done on ability, not ability to pay.

[blackhole]

We need to reduce numbers, but it has to be done on ability, not ability to pay.

Exactly. You don't need to come from a wealthy background these days to be capable, especially with information so freely available (good ol' internet).

[Pindar]

But I thought most people on here thought that degrees were worthless anyway so surely they must agree with the policy of deliberately discouraging people from doing them.

Then there are the degree snobs who think that only a degree from a traditional university is good enough and the boomer types who maintain that only their generation had the right idea about education, despite that fact that they repeatedly voted in governments that helped destroy (said) education system in the 1980s and 90s. Their narrow minded self interest and lack of imagination coupled with a smug cynicism towards the young, helped turn the UK into an educational desert.

I have observed that if somebody has an aptitude for something, they don't need university degrees to develop it. A traditional HNC style college course or even on the job training will suffice. I've personally seen people trained to do complex transistor layout on silicon for microchips with only GCSEs. You can't read your way to being smart, you can only develop and encourage latent skills in people. This assumes the candidate has a genuine aptitude for something in the first place and some common sense.

Study-work combination was very effective when there were still places you could go to do an apprenticeship. What hope is there of this now?

Edited May 2, 2010 by Pindar

[righttoleech]

The effect of people moving to Scotland in time for their childrens 'A' level year in order to benefit from 'free' university education should provide a 'filip' to the scottish pwoperdy market.

[rented]

What is the real purpose of this imaginary 50% of kids going to University?

To keep them off the unemployment figures/reasonably occupied doing something for an extra 3-6 years?

[Cogs]

What is the real purpose of this imaginary 50% of kids going to University?

To be competitive with countries with higher participation ratios. The question you have to ask yourself is whether our economy is more like the countries above us in that list or those below (you notice how out of place Germany looks - thats a bit of a clue).

Edited May 3, 2010 by Cogs

[Buccaneer]

Such a cynic; just think of all those doors opened up by having a degree....

Ironic really, New Labour have regressed society a few decades by making education the preserve of the rich (and the Scots). Things can only get better.

[Guest The Relaxation Suite]

An excellent points about the Scots being the only ones able to go to university now. A fine result after 13 years of the Scottish Raj.

Stil, they get wiped out 96 hours' time and the won't be back until 2020.

[Xurbia]

It's obvious to anyone, apart from Labour, that basic education needs are the priority; that means using old fashioned rigour. Britain sends uneducated cretins on for further education. It's pointless and a waste of resources.

The government should put a warning label on university education: Your future job has already been shipped overseas but you still have to pay back the cost. This will ruin your chances of ever getting a mortgage, buying a house and having a family. Actually don't worry because there's *uck all chance of your buying a reasonably priced place anyway, even in your next lifetime. Your loan debt will ensure you have to stay in bankrupt Britain to support all the indolent benefit stealing scum.

[Guest The Relaxation Suite]

It's obvious to anyone, apart from Labour, that basic education needs are the priority; that means using old fashioned rigour. Britain sends uneducated cretins on for further education. It's pointless and a waste of resources.

The government should put a warning label on university education: Your future job has already been shipped overseas but you still have to pay back the cost. This will ruin your chances of ever getting a mortgage, buying a house and having a family. Actually don't worry because there's *uck all chance of your buying a reasonably priced place anyway, even in your next lifetime. Your loan debt will ensure you have to stay in bankrupt Britain to support all the indolent benefit stealing scum.

I agree about the cretins being sent on to HE. My brightest students, year in - year out, were either privately schooled Brits or foreigners, Germans were especially brilliant, as were some of the French and also considering the language difficulties, Japanese. Not so impressed with Americans or Chinese though. I think many of them were there just because daddy had deep pockets.

The average ex-comp British student was not much good. Also, they were always the ones that would be talking or texting in lectures, etc., late papers, and so on. To solve this mess they need more intelligent teachers at the primary/secondary level and a more selective HE system.

[Xurbia]

I agree about the cretins being sent on to HE. My brightest students, year in - year out, were either privately schooled Brits or foreigners, Germans were especially brilliant, as were some of the French and also considering the language difficulties, Japanese. Not so impressed with Americans or Chinese though. I think many of them were there just because daddy had deep pockets.

The average ex-comp British student was not much good. Also, they were always the ones that would be talking or texting in lectures, etc., late papers, and so on. To solve this mess they need more intelligent teachers at the primary/secondary level and a more selective HE system.

I have met many German, Austrian and Scandanavians students in my travels. I find them personable and highly intelligent. It doesn't seem to matter whether I've been talking to a carpenter or a science degree student, all of them seem highly skilled and proud people. The Germans also understand how important engineering and manufacturing are to an economy. We had Rover and the Germans have BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Audi and VW. Just take a look at the new BMW R1000rr superbike. It's just a stunning piece of engineering.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Xurbia

[chris25]

But I thought most people on here thought that degrees were worthless anyway so surely they must agree with the policy of deliberately discouraging people from doing them.

Then there are the degree snobs who think that only a degree from a traditional university is good enough and the boomer types who maintain that only their generation had the right idea about education, despite that fact that they repeatedly voted in governments that helped destroy (said) education system in the 1980s and 90s. Their narrow minded self interest and lack of imagination coupled with a smug cynicism towards the young, helped turn the UK into an educational desert.

I have observed that if somebody has an aptitude for something, they don't need university degrees to develop it. A traditional HNC style college course or even on the job training will suffice. I've personally seen people trained to do complex transistor layout on silicon for microchips with only GCSEs. You can't read your way to being smart, you can only develop and encourage latent skills in people. This assumes the candidate has a genuine aptitude for something in the first place and some common sense.

Study-work combination was very effective when there were still places you could go to do an apprenticeship. What hope is there of this now?

Totatly agree. University is not even a test of inteligence IMO. I have met people that have been to uni and are dangerously stupid.

All uni is (on many courses) is a test of how to write an essay. I have met people who said they ALWAYS did essays the night before and ended up with 1sts.

Dumb as **** but can write an essay? Heres a degree mate

[Guest The Relaxation Suite]

I have met many German, Austrian and Scandanavians students in my travels. I find them personable and highly intelligent. It doesn't seem to matter whether I've been talking to a carpenter or a science degree student, all of them seem highly skilled and proud people. The Germans also understand how important engineering and manufacturing are to an economy. We had Rover and the Germans have BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Audi and VW. Just take a look at the new BMW R1000rr superbike. It's just a stunning piece of engineering.

I hate to say it, as I am generally quite pro-American, but I think Britain's cultural proximity to the US is not having a good effect on it. The natural barrier created by language between the US and these other countries protects them in many ways. Like you rightly say, they admire and respect things like engineering, which is seen as a real "losers" game in the UK, at least among young people. I don't know why this is, really. I actually cannot articulate why I think Britain is going in the direction it seems to be.

It's got something to do with unaffordabel house prices and celebrity culture, though.

[Guest The Relaxation Suite]

Totatly agree. University is not even a test of inteligence IMO. I have met people that have been to uni and are dangerously stupid.

All uni is (on many courses) is a test of how to write an essay. I have met people who said they ALWAYS did essays the night before and ended up with 1sts.

Dumb as **** but can write an essay? Heres a degree mate

The modular system is to blame for this. Once upon a time students were monitored in a more informal way, but then nearly everything hinged on final exams. This meant they had to work very hard at the end, but might have been able to slack off at other stages. Then, someone decided to test them every few weeks in a modulear format. They decided this because first it was more favourable to women, and second they thought it would keep students on their toes throughout the degrees.

On that second point, the opposite happened. Students now can heavily manipulate their degrees by choosing and dropping modules all the way through their degrees. If they're not getting on so well with polisci then maybe they might drop that and fill up the space with a couple of history modules. Each module is marked seperately and this enables them to know what their final degree will be in advance. They might have done so well they know they will get a 2:1, so they can slack off from that point. And many modules do not have exams at all, or even presentations.

I had to pass someone once for a module even though he attended no semnars or lectures at all. He was in Africa for the entire course, but passed the module on his written work at the end of the module which he emailed in. There is a lot of abuse of the system. Anything to keep the cheques rolling in - esecially the fat ones from overseas.

[crouch]

Dunno, but I am firmly of the opinion that scaling back the University system to provide proper degrees to the best qualified young people would be the best idea.

For the less academically gifted there should be be other far more worthwhile (for them) training available.

What is the real purpose of this imaginary 50% of kids going to University?

Oh and while they are at it they should bring some real standards back into the A-Level and Higher (in Scotland) exams. Now it appears that everyone can now get straight A's which hardly helps the Universities selecting the best students for 'proper'* courses.

* by proper I mean medicine, law, veterinary, physics, engineering, maths and other degrees that a proper economy should be encourging.

+1

[guitarman001]

But I thought most people on here thought that degrees were worthless anyway so surely they must agree with the policy of deliberately discouraging people from doing them.

Then there are the degree snobs who think that only a degree from a traditional university is good enough and the boomer types who maintain that only their generation had the right idea about education, despite that fact that they repeatedly voted in governments that helped destroy (said) education system in the 1980s and 90s. Their narrow minded self interest and lack of imagination coupled with a smug cynicism towards the young, helped turn the UK into an educational desert.

I have observed that if somebody has an aptitude for something, they don't need university degrees to develop it. A traditional HNC style college course or even on the job training will suffice. I've personally seen people trained to do complex transistor layout on silicon for microchips with only GCSEs. You can't read your way to being smart, you can only develop and encourage latent skills in people. This assumes the candidate has a genuine aptitude for something in the first place and some common sense.

Study-work combination was very effective when there were still places you could go to do an apprenticeship. What hope is there of this now?

Agreed.

Out of interest, do you work in the field of IC design? (This is what I do)