The Property Divide Is Growing

[Wires 74]

Refreshing to see pieces like this in the national media ...

Interesting that 80% of FTB`s are now receiving help from `Bank of Mum and Dad` ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertymarket/7149408/The-property-divide-is-growing.html

[headrow]

Refreshing to see pieces like this in the national media ...

Interesting that 80% of FTB`s are now receiving help from `Bank of Mum and Dad` ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertymarket/7149408/The-property-divide-is-growing.html

'About 46 per cent now wholly own their properties without a mortgage'

Is that figure right?

So that means that 46% of the housing stock in Britain will never force downward pressure on house prices?

I can see clearly now why prices are so stubborn.

[Blackholeshine]

Another property divide:

The property of this link is about the price of a London flat:

http://www.e-propertylinks.com/listing_details.php?listingID=27531

[The Ayatollah Buggeri]

'About 46 per cent now wholly own their properties without a mortgage'

Is that figure right?

So that means that 46% of the housing stock in Britain will never force downward pressure on house prices?

There are other reasons besides inability to pay the mortgage that can have the effect of forcing a sale (or at least, an attempt to sell), e.g. death or relocation.

[winkie]

There are other reasons besides inability to pay the mortgage that can have the effect of forcing a sale (or at least, an attempt to sell), e.g. death or relocation.

..but many rent it out then move and either rent or buy elsewhere....I know for a fact that at least 1/3 of the movers in my area do not sell they rent it out and move using other means.

[non frog]

Why can't people just build an illegal castle on their own land? The Torygraph would support that.

[Si1]

..but many rent it out then move and either rent or buy elsewhere....I know for a fact that at least 1/3 of the movers in my area do not sell they rent it out and move using other means.

they will have their equity and wealth wiped out owing to their greed - interesting times ahead

[winkie]

they will have their equity and wealth wiped out owing to their greed - interesting times ahead

By doing that they are blocking the way for someone who would wish to buy rather than rent.....first they knocked down the old Edwardian family homes and built flats in their place...then they built on the old brown field sites such as petrol stations and old industrial sites, it was either build a block of flats or a supermarket...then they changed the law to allow gardens to be classified as brown field and they bought them up in droves, cut the trees down tarmacked for parking places and built yet more flats or thin three story town houses with minute gardens...next the indigenous population say enough is enough...but there is still a demand and people obviously still want to live like this on top of each other..strength in numbers...well let them get on with it I'm off.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

This is what has kept a neither all these years. Decent job, healthy deposit, could afford a reasonable house somewhere reasonable but all the chips are stacked against me and I'm getting a rubbish deal.

I've given up trying to decide whether house prices should be cheaper and just struggle with the decision of whether to buy in this climate - which is no easier a decision to come to.

[South Lorne]

There are other reasons besides inability to pay the mortgage that can have the effect of forcing a sale (or at least, an attempt to sell), e.g. death or relocation.

...add divorce (two seek two new smaller houses)...marriage (two merge into one house)...

[uncle_monty]

Although it highlights some major issue in the UK housing market, it is essentially a puff piece. No mention of the fact that a HPC would address this "divide". Just arguing for the status quo - persistently high house prices, with the money miraculously coming from never ending easy credit / bank of mum n' dad / Russian Oligarchs, etc. In conclusion, pure fantasy.

"......Most first-timers are now 33 before they can afford to buy. "On the new developments, around 80 per cent of our first-time buyers have help from the bank of mum and dad. It is very much about how much equity your parents have got," Yolande says. "A lot of help being given to children involves sharing equity." And behind the scenes, new mechanisms are being looked at that will allow investors to provide equity to first-time buyers for a return......" WTF!

How can it be "equity" if you are obliged to repay it with interest? Return of the 100% loan?

I give up.

Edited February 6, 2010 by uncle_monty

[wren]

Forgive my ignorance but I haven't lived in the UK for 10 years.

Does the bank of mum and dad expect to be paid back some time in the future? And if so do they expect interest on top of the principal?

What's the normal deal with the bank of mum and dad?

[Confounded]

There are other reasons besides inability to pay the mortgage that can have the effect of forcing a sale (or at least, an attempt to sell), e.g. death or relocation.

I think the real killer blow to come will be running costs. I know people selling their mortgage free big house at bubble prices already, they can see the problems ahead in trying to run a large house in their advanced years. They are the smart ones and I can only see this pressure building in the next few years as people see that bubble prices are slipping away, their retirement income is less than they anticipated and the effects of all the stimulus eventually is converted into the inflationary forces especially for energy.

The housing market is in trouble from so many angles in the short/medium and long term.

Edited February 6, 2010 by Confounded

[Norma Lamont]

I think the real killer blow to come will be running costs. I know people selling their mortgage free big house at bubble prices already, they can see the problems ahead in trying to run a large house in their advanced years. They are the smart ones and I can only see this pressure building in the next few years as people see that bubble prices are slipping away, their retirement income is less than they anticipated and the effects of all the stimulus eventually is converted into the inflationary forces especially for energy.

The housing market is in trouble from so many angles in the short/medium and long term.

Total and utter b*ll*cks !

[Confounded]

Total and utter b*ll*cks !

Talk me through the flaws?

[Guest Noodle]

Talk me through the flaws?

Yes I was wondering too.

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

Talk me through the flaws?

Flaw 1) Energy prices will reduce drastically in real terms in the UK over the years due to the sound prudent fiscal management that has been enforced over previuos decades

2) House Prices will continue to go up because thats what they do as theres so much pent up demand of wealthy people flocking to the uk because of the weather

3)Pension payments will rocket over the coming years due to the expanding intellect of future contributors, those coming up through the education system, i can envisage a time in the near future the intellect reaches such a level as to need standard form on the end of exam results to highlight the number of stars

4)Government and MPs wont let anything negative happen in the UK, they are all powerful and the Global bastion of high decorum, selflessness , standards and work ethic

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Flaw 1) Energy prices will reduce drastically in real terms in the UK over the years due to the sound prudent fiscal management that has been enforced over previuos decades

2) House Prices will continue to go up because thats what they do as theres so much pent up demand of wealthy people flocking to the uk because of the weather

3)Pension payments will rocket over the coming years due to the expanding intellect of future contributors, those coming up through the education system, i can envisage a time in the near future the intellect reaches such a level as to need standard form on the end of exam results to highlight the number of stars

4)Government and MPs wont let anything negative happen in the UK, they are all powerful and the Global bastion of high decorum, selflessness , standards and work ethic

When you put it in such clear terms, you wonder what the bears are worrying about. Jam today and jam tomorrow!

[Confounded]

Flaw 1) Energy prices will reduce drastically in real terms in the UK over the years due to the sound prudent fiscal management that has been enforced over previuos decades

2) House Prices will continue to go up because thats what they do as theres so much pent up demand of wealthy people flocking to the uk because of the weather

3)Pension payments will rocket over the coming years due to the expanding intellect of future contributors, those coming up through the education system, i can envisage a time in the near future the intellect reaches such a level as to need standard form on the end of exam results to highlight the number of stars

4)Government and MPs wont let anything negative happen in the UK, they are all powerful and the Global bastion of high decorum, selflessness , standards and work ethic

Do you work for the BBC planning their Saturday morning schedule?

They had an art "expert" on this morning talking about that mess that sold for $64million, there are 9 other identical messes that are in existence and someone just paid more than three times the previous know selling price. Apparently with the stock market volatility hard tangible "assets" such as this is the only safe place for your money. They also had the guy who compiles the rich list saying that property and farmland is the next hot place for mega money to go into. They just can't seem to connect all the dots regarding bubble economics, meanwhile the average UK citizens continues to get poorer, not going to end well.

Next on the schedule is another daily property ramp regarding the shortage of housing. I can barely think of a week in the last 3 years where the BBC has not run a feature on shortage of property.

[The Ayatollah Buggeri]

..but many rent it out then move and either rent or buy elsewhere....I know for a fact that at least 1/3 of the movers in my area do not sell they rent it out and move using other means.

As long as they can rent it out at a price that allows them to maintain ownership of it, that's an option. But with unemployment going up, wages and social security payments likely to remain static at best and increasing numbers of young professionals opting to live with their parents, is that going to continue to be an option for everyone who find themselves unable to sell at the price they want?

[Si1]

By doing that they are blocking the way for someone who would wish to buy rather than rent.....first they knocked down the old Edwardian family homes and built flats in their place...then they built on the old brown field sites such as petrol stations and old industrial sites, it was either build a block of flats or a supermarket...then they changed the law to allow gardens to be classified as brown field and they bought them up in droves, cut the trees down tarmacked for parking places and built yet more flats or thin three story town houses with minute gardens...next the indigenous population say enough is enough...but there is still a demand and people obviously still want to live like this on top of each other..strength in numbers...well let them get on with it I'm off.

fair enough - I don't understand this natural entitlement to house-ownership. the price is the price. right now it is overpriced against fundamentals, the amateur speculation that has occurred just means there is significant misallocation of capital, you can benefit from this by investing, both in labour and in cash, elsewhere. Try to be less emotive (I know I can't talk) - the people foolishly maintaining high property prices are actually going to lose out and there are legion alternative opportunities for you to mint it whilst they are looking the other way and obsessing about their property non-wealth.

[Guest DoubleDigitCrackPipe]

Next on the schedule is another daily property ramp regarding the shortage of housing. I can barely think of a week in the last 3 years where the BBC has not run a feature on shortage of property.

Absolutely.

I switched off before the article came on.

I just couldn't stand to hear (for the 878,000th time) that "shortage of property in the UK means prices stay high"

Even if it is true, can you stop reminding us?

Most of us will get ill some day and die from it but you don't tell us that every other day do you?

[Si1]

"......Most first-timers are now 33 before they can afford to buy. "On the new developments, around 80 per cent of our first-time buyers have help from the bank of mum and dad. It is very much about how much equity your parents have got," Yolande says. "A lot of help being given to children involves sharing equity." And behind the scenes, new mechanisms are being looked at that will allow investors to provide equity to first-time buyers for a return......" WTF!

How can it be "equity" if you are obliged to repay it with interest? Return of the 100% loan?

I give up.

this is a typical financially illiterate property journo - 'equidy equidy equidy' - just a word they don't understand but sprinkle liberally

there is no private equity forthcoming that doesn't simply involve enslaving the mortgagee - it's a kind of investment, but not in bricks and mortar, rather in naivity and exploitation

[Si1]

They had an art "expert" on this morning talking about that mess that sold for $64million, there are 9 other identical messes that are in existence and someone just paid more than three times the previous know selling price. Apparently with the stock market volatility hard tangible "assets" such as this is the only safe place for your money.

erm hello - so how are stock certificates less tangible than property deeds?

I'll carry on divcersifying into the stockmarjket thanks very much whilst the herd wanders off elsewhere!

[Si1]

Absolutely.

I switched off before the article came on.

I just couldn't stand to hear (for the 878,000th time) that "shortage of property in the UK means prices stay high"

(whisper it - it's nmot reflected in rents - what does that tell you...)

http://www.economist.com/businessfinance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15179388