the end is a bit nigher Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Unless rents lower people will never be able to afford to work. Why bother even trying ? And that's exactly the situation my sister is in. She would willingly work if it were worth the while but why bother when you get the same / more with none of the hassle, leaving free time to spend with her daughter and our parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 And that's exactly the situation my sister is in. She would willingly work if it were worth the while but why bother when you get the same / more with none of the hassle, leaving free time to spend with her daughter and our parents. So if her rent was 300 a month would she feel it worthwhile working? This is one of the reasons council waiting lists are so high imo. It's not because people want a "council" house but they are desperate to get cheaper rent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abharrisson Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/poli...icle6812926.eceSo for finding accommodation that costs less than the maximum allowance tennants get to keep some money? So the taxpayer is paying people to shop around? What's missing from this story is how much the taxpayer has saved by paying tennants in this way? Is the saving a 50/50 split? Poorer sections of society often get the worst deal on tax.. not becasue the govt overtly taxes them more but becasue they allow themselves to be taxed more.... by smoking, drinking more than the average soul, playing the lottery more etc etc... which on a per pound spent basis are some of the most heavily taxed purchases. In terms of recouping the excess housing allowance... its criminal frankly that we have been paying out more than is spent in some cases so its the right thing to do... its not more tax, its less benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 Poor dependant people = an excuse to tax. They don't want you to do anything but sit there and be their excuse for steealing. Bring back the poor house then? Perhaps we can even make a profit from there labour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the end is a bit nigher Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 So if her rent was 300 a month would she feel it worthwhile working?This is one of the reasons council waiting lists are so high imo. It's not because people want a "council" house but they are desperate to get cheaper rent. It would because she would have an extra £450 in her pocket every month (less tax) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 That's fine. And my point is, that if my sister's rent was actually £600 she should only get £600 and not get to keep the extra £50. That seems to be what is being proposed and I support it. again fine...but why target renters...your £200,000 mortgage defaulter gets paid interest at the government rate of 6.x%, regardless of whether they are on 6.x% or BoE -.5%....thats even more wrong as the renter has taken no risk...just provided a roof over their head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashConnoisseur Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 That's fine. And my point is, that if my sister's rent was actually £600 she should only get £600 and not get to keep the extra £50. That seems to be what is being proposed and I support it. But then there wouldn't be any incentive for your sister to shop around for a £600 house. Knowing that, the landlord would set the rent at £650 to maximise the Housing Benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Gnome Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 We know Brown is a psychopath so that isn't news.What is fascinating is further evidence of how little he understands markets. Remove the incentive to choose on price and rents will rise to the allowance. He really doesn't grasp any of this, does he? The implication for his ability to govern a market is staggering. I'm sure he does grasp it. The purpose of benefit payments is to prop up landlords, the real beneficiaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashConnoisseur Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 It would because she would have an extra £450 in her pocket every month (less tax) The maximum rent saving that the tenant can keep is £15 per week; so only £65 per month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashConnoisseur Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 We know Brown is a psychopath so that isn't news.What is fascinating is further evidence of how little he understands markets. Remove the incentive to choose on price and rents will rise to the allowance. He really doesn't grasp any of this, does he? The implication for his ability to govern a market is staggering. Indeed; it's back to the old system where landlords set the advertised rent at the maximum Housing Benefit would pay. A tenant claiming Housing Benefit had no incentive to negotiate a lower rent or shop around for a cheaper property. It wasn't uncommon to hear of landlords setting two rents -- with a higher rent being asked for prospective tenants who were eligible for maximum Housing Benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Gnome Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 So if her rent was 300 a month would she feel it worthwhile working?This is one of the reasons council waiting lists are so high imo. It's not because people want a "council" house but they are desperate to get cheaper rent. Nail on head. Not difficult is it, we can see where the madness started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavp Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 That's fine. And my point is, that if my sister's rent was actually £600 she should only get £600 and not get to keep the extra £50. That seems to be what is being proposed and I support it. Why would the landlord charge £600 if they could charge £650 and it would make no financial difference to your sister either way? At least under the current system she has an incentive to negotiate the rent downwards in that situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 The maximum rent saving that the tenant can keep is £15 per week; so only £65 per month. When you pay your own rent surely you get the full benefit of cheaper rent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashConnoisseur Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 the maximum is calculated on the market rate for a given type of property. so if they are deciding the rate, then the maximum is at that rate. its chicken and egg. That's another reason why incentivising the tenant to reduce rents is a good idea. add in inflationery rises when other landlords are dropping and we have a situation. No inflationary rises are built-in to Housing Benefit. The Local Housing Allowance (LHA) rates are set each month by the District Valuer for each type of property based on the average rent for each area (excluding upmarket properties). If average rents fall then LHA rates will fall too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waitingscot Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 I'm sure he does grasp it. The purpose of benefit payments is to prop up landlords, the real beneficiaries. My thoughts exactly. It is hard to come to terms with the idea we may be being led by such an evil man, but I am beginning to think it's the only explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashConnoisseur Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 When you pay your own rent surely you get the full benefit of cheaper rent? Yes, but if you're claiming Housing Benefit you only get to keep the first £15 of any saving; the DWP get the rest (by way of a lower Housing Benefit payment). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Prudence Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Official figures showed that the number of households with no one over the age of 16 working has increased by 240,000 in the past year to 3.3 million. This was the Times yesterday so if each household is claiming £500 per month housing benefit that equates to £1.65 billion per month. Or £330 million for each £100 of housing benefit granted. So what is the average housing benefit claim per month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 "..but the crowd clamoured for more, so the French state sent out more assignats, fearing the mob."We is ******ed. This is going to go all the way to the bottom. That's a scary, scary and long way from here. You are right - we is stuffed. All policies point to proping up the housing market - everything bar none. In fact the post title should have read "Brown plans to take from poorest to give to BTL landlord barons." I am getting the remainer of my assets out of UKPLC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashConnoisseur Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Official figures showed that the number of households with no one over the age of 16 working has increased by 240,000 in the past year to 3.3 million. This was the Times yesterday so if each household is claiming £500 per month housing benefit that equates to £1.65 billion per month. Not all those working-age households will be claiming Housing Benefit. Some will be owner-occupied while others will have a pension income or savings above the limit which make them ineligible. There are other households where someone is working part-time which are claiming (partial) Housing Benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RufflesTheGuineaPig Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 The maximum rent saving that the tenant can keep is £15 per week; so only £65 per month. IIRC it's 15% not £15. As a single 31 year old male living in Luton my LHA would be £525. Lookup in your area, see what you can get. You'll be shocked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashConnoisseur Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 IIRC it's 15% not £15. 'Local Housing Allowance': http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBen...ome/DG_10018928 How much will you getIf the rent of the property you have negotiated with your landlord is lower than the LHA rate you will be able to keep any excess benefit up to a maximum of £15 per week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashConnoisseur Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 So what is the average housing benefit claim per month. The most recent figures I could find are for August 2007. The average Housing Benefit payment then appears to be £71.44. 'Housing Benefit & Council Tax Benefit Quarterly Summary Statistics: August 2007': http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd1/hb_ctb...g07.asp#benefit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RufflesTheGuineaPig Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 'Local Housing Allowance':http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBen...ome/DG_10018928 I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huw Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Its a housing allowance, not an income subsidy. If housing costs less than the maximum allowable then we should pay the lesser amount. Very simple really. In the long term we will -- provided future HB levels reflect the lower market price, which will be ratcheted down if tenants have an incentive to bargain/shop around. The big winners from the "fixed-amount" arrangements are LLs -- I bet they are rubbing their hands at this news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erranta Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 (edited) I looked into housing benefit. This is how the Govt, Councils rip-off the poorest! It's pure Evil deceit by Ministers! What they do is spread the rent over 12months/52wks! This means to get the Xtra pennies people have to be out of work for AT LEAST 11 months! ANYONE who stops their housing allowance claim before 11 months pays for part of their rent out of their £60.00 dole money. There is a Calendar monthly shortfall of rent coz the Councils spread the total payment over a 52 week period! ie if your rent is 400 p.c.m. you get £389 per month off council(neighbours rent) shortfall = £11.00 pm out of your dole money! Anyone not out of work for 11 months plus gets ripped off! Tell your MP's to get councils to pay the correct amount PER WEEK/P.C.M. I am sure if you lose your job you would appreciate it too! Govt/Councils Ripping off the poorest! Edited August 28, 2009 by erranta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.