Hannan On Healthcare

[hilltop]

The only people who like the NHS are the people who feed from it or people who like someone else to pay for their way in life.

You are wrong, this statement of yours is offensive to very many people. Have you any idea how demanding NHS jobs are?

Many people do not confuse the benefit of pooling resources with having a free ride.

[Basildon Bond]

The only people who like the NHS are the people who feed from it or people who like someone else to pay for their way in life.

I neither feed from the NHS nor view that others should pay my way in life. I am, however, glad that the NHS exists as a security should I need treatment. I doubt I am alone in this.

[Minos]

The NHS certainly has its faults, but it is still better than privatised healthcare. The entire health system in the united states is geared towards making a profit. Doctors and managers earn massive salaries. Administration costs in the US health care system cost about $400bn, or about 25% of total health care spending. The private healthcare companies make massive profits at the expense of the people and they decide what treatment the patient gets. Doctors rely on them to refer patients and are forced to reduce costs by using cheaper alternatives. Private healthcare may be great in terms of reduced waiting times and better 'customer' service, but it does not mean that the treatment is any better. We will realise the true value of the NHS only when it is gone, which will happen soon.

I hope you are correct. I suppose Labour will be going for the '14 days to save our jobs - whoops I mean the NHS' electioneering approach again.

[Lone_Twin]

Am I correct in thinking the american state spends more on health care per person per year than the NHS despite the private health insurance system. Or is that a myth?

[Minos]

You are wrong, this statement of yours is offensive to very many people. Have you any idea how demanding NHS jobs are?

Many people do not confuse the benefit of pooling resources with having a free ride.

I'm sure they work very hard. They can still work very hard in private organisations if they wish. I don't want to pay for other people to receive free health care. Go and visit an A&E department. It's full of the sh1te of life demanding their rights. Feck them.

[Minos]

I neither feed from the NHS nor view that others should pay my way in life. I am, however, glad that the NHS exists as a security should I need treatment. I doubt I am alone in this.

Private health organisations will be happy to treat you too for a fee - IF YOU NEED IT.

[Timak]

Am I correct in thinking the american state spends more on health care per person per year than the NHS despite the private health insurance system. Or is that a myth?

According to the Economist the US spends more per head on their Medicare system (which covers 28% of the population) than we do per head on the NHS.

Everyone in the country could have full BUPA coverage AND the NHS for what the US spends on their system per head.

[jackalope]

The only people who like the NHS are the people who feed from it or people who like someone else to pay for their way in life.

I agree. Why should I pay through the nose for fat chavs who live on chips and Silk Cuts? FuÑk the NHS.

[mdman]

Having had personal experience of both healthcare systems in a working capacity or as a patient, and with close family that have had direct experience also, I can't stress enough how catastrophic the US system is both economically, clinically and morally.

Insured relatives supposedly with a decent insurance policy find themselves paying payment upon payment for co-payments that are hidden in the fine print (eg ER fees, attending fees, clinic fees, followup clinic fees) while still paying a regularly monthly premium that run into the hundreds of dollars

Even when they get seen, the care has been poor and unco-ordinated. For all the crap GPs here are given, at least they take responsibility for patients. Over there, patients with undiagnosed symptoms are pushed from pillar to post, and once the specialist decides it's not their field, pushed back again. Doctors wash their hands of patients who still get a fat bill. Someone I know with the simple diagnosis of gallstones was pissed around with by US doctors, the diagnosis only made in India by a simple USS FFS!

And HMOs restrict clinical freedoms there every bit as much as the NHS does over here.

And this is the 'well insured' patients! Not counting those whose chronic illnesses force them into poverty. Or the uninsured.

The US system is utterly ghastly. Far worse than the NHS. We should still do better - like the French (but I think they're about to mess up their excellent system in pursuit of profit). Hannan is a ****

[Cogs]

I'm sure they work very hard. They can still work very hard in private organisations if they wish. I don't want to pay for other people to receive free health care. Go and visit an A&E department. It's full of the sh1te of life demanding their rights. Feck them.

LOL, sounds like your last experience of the NHS was involuntary!

[Basildon Bond]

Private health organisations will be happy to treat you too for a fee - IF YOU NEED IT.

sure, but if one ends up in a car accident with multiple injuries it could easily bankrupt you. I'll take the system as it is thanks.

[a+b+c+d]

Hannan On Healthcare

This guy needs to shut up - he's doing a lot of harm to the cause.

We all know that, at activist level - the so-called grassroots - the NHS is about as popular as immigrants and gypsies. Now is not the time to tell the world about it. If we're to take full advantage of the current unpopularity of Labour and win the coming General Election, our true feelings regarding these issues need to be toned down. The Shadow Cabinet needs to continue spouting the usual guff about the NHS being the best thing in the world, 'safe in our hands', etc. to ensure the support of the sheeple. In power, more pressure can be exerted on this monstrosity, forcing people to move to the private sector where medical care rightly belongs. It was successfully achieved in the past and it can be done again.

Hannan is, again, right but shouting it from the rooftops could have serious consequences. Does he really want to risk five more years of this mob just to make himself popular in certain quarters?

[noodle doodle]

gitting back ter teeth, one us facebook correspondent i know of has claimed its cost $10k so far in orthodontics for her child, and she's due to get dental implants as well. It's essentially just an extension of the cosmetic surgery industry.

[no accountant]

for which he'd have to pay approximately 50% more than the amount taken via taxation if we used the US model.

But it's your choice in the US. You choose the level of health insurance you want. If people want to pay 50% more then good for them.

Plus, as you say, on average more is spent in the US per head. But because of this, the pharma companies have a good market to sell into and can develop better drug treatments. Which will come back to us here too. (If the NHS can afford them!) So we should be happy that american pay loads for world leading health care, we can pick up benefit from them on the cheap.

[Minos]

LOL, sounds like your last experience of the NHS was involuntary!

No. I had to take someone there. I didn't know such people existed.

[Cogs]

This guy needs to shut up - he's doing a lot of harm to the cause.

We all know that, at activist level - the so-called grassroots - the NHS is about as popular as immigrants and gypsies. Now is not the time to tell the world about it. If we're to take full advantage of the current unpopularity of Labour and win the coming General Election, our true feelings regarding these issues need to be toned down. The Shadow Cabinet needs to continue spouting the usual guff about the NHS being the best thing in the world, 'safe in our hands', etc. to ensure the support of the sheeple. In power, more pressure can be exerted on this monstrosity, forcing people to move to the private sector where medical care rightly belongs. It was successfully achieved in the past and it can be done again.

Hannan is, again, right but shouting it from the rooftops could have serious consequences. Does he really want to risk five more years of this mob just to make himself popular in certain quarters?

Peter, you are overdoing it a bit mate.

They are Tories, not villains from a penny dreadful ("wuhahahahaha!")

[Minos]

sure, but if one ends up in a car accident with multiple injuries it could easily bankrupt you. I'll take the system as it is thanks.

I'm happy for you to do that. I want to be able to opt out. I'm very happy for you to continue to fund it.

[Cogs]

No. I had to take someone there. I didn't know such people existed.

Why were you taking someone there?

Sounds like a vile freeloader to me.

[Minos]

This guy needs to shut up - he's doing a lot of harm to the cause.

We all know that, at activist level - the so-called grassroots - the NHS is about as popular as immigrants and gypsies. Now is not the time to tell the world about it. If we're to take full advantage of the current unpopularity of Labour and win the coming General Election, our true feelings regarding these issues need to be toned down. The Shadow Cabinet needs to continue spouting the usual guff about the NHS being the best thing in the world, 'safe in our hands', etc. to ensure the support of the sheeple. In power, more pressure can be exerted on this monstrosity, forcing people to move to the private sector where medical care rightly belongs. It was successfully achieved in the past and it can be done again.

Hannan is, again, right but shouting it from the rooftops could have serious consequences. Does he really want to risk five more years of this mob just to make himself popular in certain quarters?

I don't think Labour are going to be able to deflect people's interest onto the NHS. The economy will be too distracting for them.

[bateman]

Why does medical care belong in the private sector? All that happens then is that you get a massive burocracy set up to deny people care (example - USA)

■On measures of quality, the U.S. overall ranked 5th out of 6 countries. The U.S. ranked fifth in coordinated care, and last in patients reporting that they have a regular doctor (84% vs. 92%–97% in other countries).

■On access measures the U.S. ranked last overall, including last on timeliness of care: 61% of U.S. patients said it was somewhat or very difficult to get care on nights or weekends, compared with 25%–59% in other countries.

■On efficiency, the U.S. ranked last overall, including last on percent of patients who have visited the emergency room for conditions that could have been treated by a regular doctor if one had been available (26% vs. 6%–21% in other countries). The U.S. ranked fifth of six countries on primary care practices having "high clinical information functions," defined as practices having at least 7 of 14 office practice information functions, including electronic records, electronic prescribing, computerized safety alerts, and patient reminders systems and registries (19% compared with 8%–87% in other countries).

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/Ne...omparisons.aspx

Sounds great! What a stunning success - pay more, die earlier and get some insurance company rich!

Edited August 14, 2009 by bateman

[Minos]

Why were you taking someone there?

Sounds like a vile freeloader to me.

Like I have said so many times. I'm happy for you to continue funding it if you feel you need it. I want to opt out.

[Toilet-Currency]

This guy needs to shut up - he's doing a lot of harm to the cause.

On the contrary, do you not think this is a very convenient debate for Cameron to have now? Blair used to be the master of this straw-man tactic.

Get someone to pop up with objections to the NHS, then slap him down.

Cameron becomes saviour of the NHS.

[Cogs]

Like I have said so many times. I'm happy for you to continue funding it if you feel you need it. I want to opt out.

I want a pony.

...stop whining and act then. There are plenty of countries that won't charge you a health tax.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Cogs

[porca misèria]

As far as I am concerned our system works fine. I contribute towards a national service which guarantees me and my family a good level of "free at the point of deliver" cover and for a small amount extra per month I can get private top up insurance for BUPA etc.

Have you ever tried to take it up on that "guarantee"? I'd guess no - or you've been lucky.

I have. Once in my life I had a serious medical incident, and turned naturally to the NHS. They wouldn't do anything for me: in fact they wouldn't give me a GP appointment for two weeks!

They're WORSE than an insurer wriggling out on the smallprint.

[smiffy1967]

Having had personal experience of both healthcare systems in a working capacity or as a patient, and with close family that have had direct experience also, I can't stress enough how catastrophic the US system is both economically, clinically and morally.

Insured relatives supposedly with a decent insurance policy find themselves paying payment upon payment for co-payments that are hidden in the fine print (eg ER fees, attending fees, clinic fees, followup clinic fees) while still paying a regularly monthly premium that run into the hundreds of dollars

Even when they get seen, the care has been poor and unco-ordinated. For all the crap GPs here are given, at least they take responsibility for patients. Over there, patients with undiagnosed symptoms are pushed from pillar to post, and once the specialist decides it's not their field, pushed back again. Doctors wash their hands of patients who still get a fat bill. Someone I know with the simple diagnosis of gallstones was pissed around with by US doctors, the diagnosis only made in India by a simple USS FFS!

And HMOs restrict clinical freedoms there every bit as much as the NHS does over here.

And this is the 'well insured' patients! Not counting those whose chronic illnesses force them into poverty. Or the uninsured.

The US system is utterly ghastly. Far worse than the NHS. We should still do better - like the French (but I think they're about to mess up their excellent system in pursuit of profit). Hannan is a ****

totally agree

my ex-American with had a car accident in Boston (we lived in New Jersey ate the time) and an abulance was called. Because we were outside the HMO duristriction she was billed 9000 USD for it.