ralphmalph Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 thats right..the report says it all DISCOUNTS. People still had the money to spend on furniture even if it was discounted. Also most furniture is bought on credit, so another point to ponder is "Is cheapo credit back and being pumped into the economy?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 People still had the money to spend on furniture even if it was discounted. Also most furniture is bought on credit, so another point to ponder is "Is cheapo credit back and being pumped into the economy?" yes OK, they spent more cash, which was worth 6.9% less than it was last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphmalph Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 Didn't one of the reports on this include a note that they actually got more goods? The June and July figures were both noted as being up in part due to early sales activities. Fine, people spent £10 this year, and £7.50 last year. But this year they got 2 T-shirts for that tenner in a sale, instead of the one last year. Retailers may be doing some extra revenue... now where's the profit? The profit is not the point. The point is that a lot of the people in this country seem to have discresionary income to spend on more tat for there home or access to credit to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphmalph Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 yes OK, they spent more cash, which was worth 6.9% less than it was last year. Your still avoiding the point of where they get access to this cash from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphmalph Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 Oh this is just like the old days of HPC.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minos Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 another possible explanation is that its 8ollocks. Much better response. Just get straight to the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Excellent point; thank you. Yes, Excellent point Exactly what I said. Food is going up in cost and more is being consumed as population rises so there will be an upward pressure on retail sales. What is the official population of this country? Because I read an article a while back that said the supermarkets have regular meetings where they decide on how much food to make available between them and they work on a figure of 80 million! If you take out the effect of increased population and government spending GDP has probably gone down over the last ten years. But of course everyone felt better off because of the credit boom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 The profit is not the point. The point is that a lot of the people in this country seem to have discresionary income to spend on more tat for there home or access to credit to do it. the profit is the ENTIRE reason for doing a trade. profit pays for wages, it pays for taxes, it pays for the premises. without profits, the economy declines. hence Zimbabwe....top hole turnover is up...5000%.....its meaningless.....as are turnover figures for shops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Here's the actual press release:http://www.brc.org.uk/showDoc04.asp?id=3960&moid=6758 If you look at the 3-month weighted average the rise appears to be entirely due to an increase in the cost of food. I think this got missed in all the 'excitement' but if your interpretation is correct it confirms what I posted earlier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphmalph Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 the profit is the ENTIRE reason for doing a trade.profit pays for wages, it pays for taxes, it pays for the premises. without profits, the economy declines. hence Zimbabwe....top hole turnover is up...5000%.....its meaningless.....as are turnover figures for shops. The profit margins are not the point I am making on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Does anything make any sense any more? House prices climbing yet unemployment soaring, job insecurity rising and credit tightening! Retail sales rising - it has to be to do with the inflation that appears to be being ignored in the official figures. It is quite plain when out and about that shopping is more expensive. You do get the feeling that they won't be happy until the entire economy is wrecked beyond repair. I mean, what is wrong with people, a business, a country living within its means? Without all the interference and the fiddling of figures, prices would find a natural level in line with the real money, and who knows, the cost of living (including but especially houses) might come down and the country might just become leaner and more competitive. As it needs to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MongerOfDoom Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 It does not matter. More money as a total was spent. They may have got less goods, but that is immaterial the money is in the hands of the consumer to spend and seemingly spend freely. Good job then that the budget deficit is not over 10% and there is not another 10%+ worth of GDP of newly printed^H^H^H^H^H quantitatively eased money sloshing about. Otherwise we would need to worry about how sustainable things are and what might happen if the government should be forced to balance the budget and stop QE.. As it is we are on target for growth by the next election, exactly in line with government predictions. Those have never been wrong before, so this is a very good time to buy a house before the prices skyrocket and no-one can afford to buy any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagsos Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 the profit is the ENTIRE reason for doing a trade.profit pays for wages, it pays for taxes, it pays for the premises. without profits, the economy declines. hence Zimbabwe....top hole turnover is up...5000%.....its meaningless.....as are turnover figures for shops. Err Bloo sorry to disagree but turnover figures for shops are not meaningless. The question that really needs addressing is whether the turnover figures for shops in terms of volume of goods shifted is a permanent velocity change or a periodic shift - i.e, are people buying more stuff overall because they have more cash, or are they buying something earlier which they would normally leave to later. My guess is on the latter - people who have downsized their holidays are spending their summer doing up their houses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphmalph Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 I think this got missed in all the 'excitement'but if your interpretation is correct it confirms what I posted earlier Food was the driver, but for some reason in July it seems a large number of UK residents decided to go and spunk a load of money on furniture. Why we are meant to be broke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Food was the driver, but for some reason in July it seems a large number of UK residents decided to go and spunk a load of money on furniture. Why we are meant to be broke. Well some people still have savings and if you are not getting much interest you might as well buy a new settee for half what it would have cost you 12 months ago OR what it will probably cost 12 months from now. If you have savings recessions are a good time to buy long term items like this. Personally I think that's why the car scrapage scheme is doing so well Loads of OAP's thinking if they aren't getting much interest they might as well get a new car that will probably 'see them out' Only thing is the types of cars they are likely to buy will have been made abroad?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MississippiJohnHurt Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Exactly. The recession and HPC were over when rates went to near 0%.My IOM has fallen from £1050 a month to just £150 Rates are not going up anytime soon. And when they eventually do, they wont go up by much as people are now dependant on the lower rates. So in future only a small increase in rates will cause the demand destruction effects that are needed to tame any inflation. Disagree that it was over when rates fell, it just bought time. At the moment the debt burden has just been transferred from public to private sector, but it doesn't change the fact that increasing levels of debt produce increasingly diminishing returns (Google "Debt Velocity" for people explaining this much better than me - Denninger did quite a good post on it once). No proper recovery can occur until the debt works its was through the system. And that's barely even started yet. These retail sales figures, slight increase in manufacturer's confidence, etc etc, are just pyrrhic victories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomberbrown Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Food was the driver, but for some reason in July it seems a large number of UK residents decided to go and spunk a load of money on furniture. Why we are meant to be broke. I confess to spunking almost £3k on electricals. Sorry, I won't let it happen again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalkent Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Does anything make any sense any more? House prices climbing yet unemployment soaring, job insecurity rising and credit tightening! But thats not happening in the financial sector of london and the SE. The banks have started hiring again and job insecurity has gone now. Majority of the jobs went a year ago. Credit is not really an issue since most get mortgages from employers and require only a 10% deposit which is pretty much a bonus payment for a lot as average bonus is around 20k. So where i am looking in most areas of london prices are rising. Not enough decent properties on the market is more of an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomberbrown Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Well some people still have savings and if you are not getting much interest you might as well buy a new settee for half what it would have cost you 12 months ago OR what it will probably cost 12 months from now. That was a factor in the reasoning for my post above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MississippiJohnHurt Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Does this mean the Government have done the right thing? I don't see what choice the BoE had, do you? Many of the measures taken have gone against my instinctive view of what will help to solve the situation, but I can see why they were done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Does anything make any sense any more? House prices climbing yet unemployment soaring, job insecurity rising and credit tightening! Retail sales rising - it has to be to do with the inflation that appears to be being ignored in the official figures. It is quite plain when out and about that shopping is more expensive. You do get the feeling that they won't be happy until the entire economy is wrecked beyond repair. I mean, what is wrong with people, a business, a country living within its means? Without all the interference and the fiddling of figures, prices would find a natural level in line with the real money, and who knows, the cost of living (including but especially houses) might come down and the country might just become leaner and more competitive. As it needs to... Makes perfect sense to me. Nu Labour are hardly going to admit that the 'economic miracle' of the last 10 years was just a massive con-trick are they? Take out government spending and a bigger population and the only thing that was keeping the economy going was credit. A Socialist Spunkfest paid for by allowing the City to have an unregulated orgy of debt creation. F*ck knows what we do now?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mammon Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I confess to spunking almost £3k on electricals. Sorry, I won't let it happen again. Well done, if only everyone followed our lead the economy would out of this mess much quicker. I have in the last year bought an LCD TV, surround sound, an iphone, an ipod, second laptop, a wii, PS3, a PSP, 2xDS and loads of games to feed these consoles. My kids think their dad is the best dad in the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MississippiJohnHurt Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I have in the last year bought an LCD TV, surround sound, an iphone, an ipod, second laptop, a wii, PS3, a PSP, 2xDS and loads of games to feed these consoles. My kids think their dad is the best dad in the world And I bet you were motivated by nothing more than an altruistic desire to do your bit for the economy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinceBalls Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Ha, ha, ha!I suppose you heard that in a Ministry of Truth broadcast 'latest Home Office figures reveal. Some 164,635 people were granted UK citizenship in 2007 – the highest ever and a 450 per cent increase from 1997, when just 37,010 people were naturalised.' God knows what the figures are now. And given that the economies of Eastern Europe are now sinking without trace why would they all be going home? particularly since benefits here are so much higher here than in Eastern Europe. The question mark on the first sentence I wrote means that I was asking a question not making a statement. I was trying to get a bit of clarity. And I only had a hunch that economic migrants might be starting to leave (I thought I'd read that the flow of Polish people going back to Poland is greater now than it has ever been) But while we are at it, you have just given figures from the very boomiest point of the boom when I asked about last year (apparently we were in recession) so the figures you give don't mean much to me. Got any ideas of last year? And second off, your figure equates to 0.25% of the population (estimated based on 60 million). Is this classified as a lot? And finally, your figures do not take into account how many people left the country (if any). What was the net flow? These are all genuine questions that help to clarify things, i'm interested and not trying to score points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) Err Bloo sorry to disagree but turnover figures for shops are not meaningless. The question that really needs addressing is whether the turnover figures for shops in terms of volume of goods shifted is a permanent velocity change or a periodic shift - i.e, are people buying more stuff overall because they have more cash, or are they buying something earlier which they would normally leave to later. My guess is on the latter - people who have downsized their holidays are spending their summer doing up their houses. sure for a shop manager to see product turnovers change is a tool...... for national statistics....whats the point? You see, i can get a report on turnovers for my business.....but I am not interested....I want to see profit. the thread was saying that turnover is good from a national statistics point of view....I say...its meaningless without the profit details...and the OP did produce some of the report showing that while turnovers were up.....DISCOUNTING was the reason... and no need to be sorry...I learn by being put straight.....thanks Edited August 11, 2009 by Bloo Loo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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