givemethegun Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Another point if the information comes from the ONS then they would be using the same techniques across the UK, so whatever the figure for Wales it is calculated the same way in Surrey , London, Manchester etc. "Annual and weekly earnings include paid overtime. The Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings is based on a sample of employee jobs taken from HM Revenue & Customs PAYE records. The 2008 ASHE is based on approximately 146,000 returns and in 2008 information was collected for the pay period that included 16 April." Why they would want to fabricate I dont know but there would certainly be an opportunity to given the nature of the sample. Assuming it is all on computer why use 146k returns and not all of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guillotine Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I've got this sick feeling in my stomach that the guy turning up at work in poor hard done by Wales, nursing his 15 pint hangover after watching the Rugby. Spends a couple of hours at work before heading back down the pub, then onto his £50K semi, with his stop at home wife and child. Is taking home more than me and my missus fighting the traffic and general throng in the southeast for 9 hours a day plus saturday. Me and the missus pay £1800 a month in direct tax and we get nothing back. I've even been told I need to spend £700 to have a tooth pulled out, and charged a £100 to have my wheels swapped front to back as an afterthought when getting my MOT done (okay so thats an example of ripoff not an essential cost). Indirect taxes in the southeast are just ridiculous, for example, £8K stamp duty just to buy a two bed ex-council house. I'm too frigging tired to fight. Just someone get me a beer and a noose. I'm giving up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FRUSTRATED Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 I have been saying it on here for a long time, people really do underestimate what people are earning out there in the real not cyber world.Wales is no different when it comes to many of the public sector jobs, a copper in Wales earns similar if not the same as a copper in Surrey, same for teachers, doctors, dentists, firemen etc etc. The private sector is shrinking and there lies the biggest difference in wages across the different parts of the uk, not public sector. Not sure but would of thought that Tesco , Sainsburys etc pay the same across the uk as well, a guy who is decorating the house at the moment was telling me his brother who works night shifts in Tesco stacking the shelves is earning over £20k per year. So £30k average wage does not seem that far off the mark. I found this forum by accident via this linkhttp://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=20041 It may be out of date but closer to the actual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wires 74 Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Official or not the Stats regarding average income beggar belief ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheshiredoc Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 HPC is finished. Only the deluded loonies of this site keep saying another 50% drop is on the cards. I had to admit that 50% falls in most areas is unlikely but I do thing that further falls are on the way. Unemployment is on the raise. The interest rate is going to go up. It would probably takes 6 months or so from the unemployment to the forced selling of the house. The real impact of the unemployment and the interest rate raise is not there yet. Slight raise in the activity, sales and mortgage approvals are likely to a blip in the trend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 I lived in north wales for a while and even during the boom local wages were more like 15-18 K than 30. whats the point of building an argument on statistics anyway- like the inmates of guantameo they can be made to say just about anything.The reality is that wales is poor- and most people there do not earn big money. Exactly, £29k a year, ********. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUBanana Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 3.5 is the magic multiple but there'll likely be some overshoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay76 Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 That average salary looks like a mean average to me, and as such, does not represent reality. For the Uk averages are around the following levels: mean salary is about 38k (skewed by the super rich) median salary is about 23k (most represents reality) modal salary is around 11.5k (minimum wage - most frequently occuring) Median salary is about the fairest reflection of reality as mean salaries are skewed by those earning telephone number salaries. If median salary is about 23k for the UK it's probably around 18k for wales. This would make about 75k a sustainable price for a average house in the region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Dribble 2 Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Thirty odd posts in one day! Hang on a minute, who are you all? This is a local forum for local people. It's bad enough that people from other parts of Wales post here (people not from Swansea) but it's getting ridiculous today! We are used to the quiet life - one or two posts every few days. Move along please. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrera Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 The average salary figures are a joke ... I know professionals (solicitors and accountants) who are 2-3 years qualified and earn circa 35k; the vast majority of other people I know earn far less. In terms of averages - there is a lot of property in Wales grossly overvalued and bought with some highly questionable finance (liar loans!) ... I think wales will crash properly when the public sector cull comes ... history repeats itself in wales and I expect this downturn to be no different; in fact it will probablu be worse owing to the extent of public sector culls needed as well as dessimation of local manufacturing and industry, espcially in the valleys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marlint Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 That average salary looks like a mean average to me, and as such, does not represent reality. For the Uk averages are around the following levels:mean salary is about 38k (skewed by the super rich) median salary is about 23k (most represents reality) modal salary is around 11.5k (minimum wage - most frequently occuring) Median salary is about the fairest reflection of reality as mean salaries are skewed by those earning telephone number salaries. If median salary is about 23k for the UK it's probably around 18k for wales. This would make about 75k a sustainable price for a average house in the region. If you're going to look at median salary then surely you need to look at median house price as well. Surely the average house price in these figures (which I assume is a mean) is skewed by the very large very expensive houses. But if you're looking at price/earnings ratios then it is fair to use the mean- as both the numerator and the denominator will be skewed by the few high earners and the few very expensive houses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkle-space Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 (edited) Got nothing desperately new to add other than that I earn around the median wage (£23k), as does my husband. But I don't work full-time and haven't done for years, due to the lack of decent full-time jobs in my area. We are struggling to build up a deposit and a house is still well out of our reach. Yes, those in the public sector are on a reasonable wage, but there are a hell a lot of them working part-time, and a large amount of people in this rural tourist area doing part-time/seasonal/casual/freelance work to fill in the gaps where and when they can. I don't care what the stats say. I did statistics as part of my degree and they truly can be made to mean anything. Once the second home owners start selling up then prices might drop and become affordable for those that live here and take home a local wage. (am still reeling from the number of posts on this topic, who'd a thunk the wales forum could be so interesting!) EDIT: just realised, I've done just what the OP said not to do, as in cited my earnings and how expensive house prices in my area are. But isn't it the personal experiences that fill out the stats? All those I know who bought 10+ years ago are sitting pretty as far as I can see, but all those I know who are ftb feel angry and locked out, and can't see any way they can afford a house for some time to come. Edited June 12, 2009 by sparkle-space Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Dribble 2 Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Is the long term average of 3.5 ratio of average earnings to average house price using the average of all earners or just mens' earnings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceathome Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 My only comment would be that these figures are only of relevence to first time buyers. Those who have owned a number of properies are far less worried as they may have a lumping big deposit. I know that first timers are important in the housing market but they do not make up the majority, open your minds a little! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Miyagi Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 My only comment would be that these figures are only of relevence to first time buyers. Those who have owned a number of properies are far less worried as they may have a lumping big deposit.I know that first timers are important in the housing market but they do not make up the majority, open your minds a little! Without first time buyers there is no housing market you tit. By the way country men, it was on the main forum for a while hence the number of posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceathome Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Without first time buyers there is no housing market you tit. By the way country men, it was on the main forum for a while hence the number of posts And here ladies and gentlemen is your rank amateur. Roll up and observe the wannabe homeowner who cannot se past his own, unfortunate, circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Miyagi Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 And here ladies and gentlemen is your rank amateur. Roll up and observe the wannabe homeowner who cannot se past his own, unfortunate, circumstances. £30k deposit, secure job, above so called average salary and happy renting. I want lower prices and sustainable increases so that one day my children can perhaps afford there own home without becoming a debt slave. Simple really, but without a wannabe such as myself buying an overpriced asset there is no housing market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceathome Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 £30k deposit, secure job, above so called average salary and happy renting. I want lower prices and sustainable increases so that one day my children can perhaps afford there own home without becoming a debt slave. Simple really, but without a wannabe such as myself buying an overpriced asset there is no housing market. So, let me get this right. You want to break the economic cycle of house pricing to accommodate your children? Are these children that you already have or are they ones you envisage having one day if you can find a willing partner? I don't have any children so, in your world, I not only pay for the schooling and care of yours through taxation but you now want me to forsake any profit I might have in my house when I retire so that your offspring can benefit. Get their names down for a council house now, Blaenymaes would be my suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Miyagi Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 (edited) So, let me get this right. You want to break the economic cycle of house pricing to accommodate your children?Are these children that you already have or are they ones you envisage having one day if you can find a willing partner? I don't have any children so, in your world, I not only pay for the schooling and care of yours through taxation but you now want me to forsake any profit I might have in my house when I retire so that your offspring can benefit. Get their names down for a council house now, Blaenymaes would be my suggestion. Edited June 14, 2009 by superdez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Dribble 2 Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 So, let me get this right. You want to break the economic cycle of house pricing to accommodate your children?Are these children that you already have or are they ones you envisage having one day if you can find a willing partner? I don't have any children so, in your world, I not only pay for the schooling and care of yours through taxation but you now want me to forsake any profit I might have in my house when I retire so that your offspring can benefit. Get their names down for a council house now, Blaenymaes would be my suggestion. You don't seem to be a very nice person. Shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopamine Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 You don't seem to be a very nice person.Shame. Yeah I agree - the wales boards have been refreshingly free of A Holes up to this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceathome Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 You don't seem to be a very nice person.Shame. So I'm a tit and an A-Hole. How dare you suggest that I'm not a very nice person! You'll do my reputation no good at all. All because I dared to suggest that there was other sections to the housing market other than FTB - go on, look back at what I first posted and tell me I'm a tit for what I said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOZ007 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Those figures can't be right at all, I live in anglesey and the average wage here would be lucky to be above 15-16k a year. loz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Miyagi Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) So I'm a tit and an A-Hole.How dare you suggest that I'm not a very nice person! You'll do my reputation no good at all. All because I dared to suggest that there was other sections to the housing market other than FTB - go on, look back at what I first posted and tell me I'm a tit for what I said. You are missing the point. Without the FTB the market cannot function. As you should be aware house purchases are a series of chains from the FTB to the 5 bedder. One break in the chain then the whole thing will collapse. I don't think your that much of a tit, your more of a village idiot....C U Next Tuesday Edited June 30, 2009 by superdez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) You don't seem to be a very nice person.Shame. I could have told you that nice was a bit selfish. I crossed swords with him a long time ago and stopped posting. I only want to debate with pleasant people not knobheads. Mind you it's not very nice to call him a country bumkin just cos he's from Swansea. We have the highest tower block in Wales, not finished but still the highest!! Edited July 2, 2009 by marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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