Churchills Toughest Decesions

[m4rk]

interesting stuff. really couldnt have trusted the french to scuttle their ships so i recon it was the right decesion.

[Krackersdave]

interesting stuff. really couldnt have trusted the french to scuttle their ships so i recon it was the right decesion.

But they did scuttle their ships... in 1942 the Germans tried to make a grab for them in operation Lila.

The French were having none of it...

"Operation Lila was a failure. The French destroyed 77 vessels, including 3 battleships, 7 cruisers, 15 destroyers, 13 torpedo boats, 6 sloops, 12 submarines, 9 patrol boats, 19 auxiliary ships, 1 school ship, 28 tugs and 4 cranes. Thirty-nine small ships were captured, most of them sabotaged and disarmed. Some of the major ships were ablaze for several days, and oil polluted the harbour so badly that it was two years before it was possible to swim there."

If only Churchill had trusted the French rather than order the cold-blooded murder of over a 1,000 people WE WERE NOT AT WAR WITH!

[indirectapproach]

“But they did scuttle their ships ….”

Why take the chance?

[Guillotine]

Yes this was a sorry story, they did a thorough job in the telling.

More could have been done to ensure the crews of those ships had disembarked.

[New Tarbuck]

ooooh yes!

[Stay Beautiful]

But they did scuttle their ships... in 1942 the Germans tried to make a grab for them in operation Lila.

The French were having none of it...

"Operation Lila was a failure. The French destroyed 77 vessels, including 3 battleships, 7 cruisers, 15 destroyers, 13 torpedo boats, 6 sloops, 12 submarines, 9 patrol boats, 19 auxiliary ships, 1 school ship, 28 tugs and 4 cranes. Thirty-nine small ships were captured, most of them sabotaged and disarmed. Some of the major ships were ablaze for several days, and oil polluted the harbour so badly that it was two years before it was possible to swim there."

If only Churchill had trusted the French rather than order the cold-blooded murder of over a 1,000 people WE WERE NOT AT WAR WITH!

War Is Hell.

Aceptable Collateral Damage.

[browneconomy]

War is hell.

The allies had the enigma code but had to sacrifice some convoys just to ensure the Germans didn't know we were breaking their codes. Thousands of our own sailors died as a result. The ability to make decisions about the life & death of your own are what mark out leaders in wartime.

[New Tarbuck]

Can you imagine Churchill trying to fight a war in todays age - 'not in my name Mr Churchill' - 'Support the Nazi freedom fighters'!

[Krackersdave]

War Is Hell.

Aceptable Collateral Damage.

Yeah good point - and if you or your loved ones get bombed to bits on the underground by Al and his Queda - thats just collateral too eh?

Murder.. is Murder ... is Murder... Or did the whole Jesus thing pass everyone by?

[indirectapproach]

Robust, legitimate self-defence, protects everyone’s loved ones better than Jesus.

Jesus is for the hereafter. Protecting our loved ones is for here.

[1929crash]

Can you imagine Churchill trying to fight a war in todays age - 'not in my name Mr Churchill' - 'Support the Nazi freedom fighters'!

You are saying that invading Iraq and killing a million people is a noble cause?

[Prescience]

Including, if I remember correctly, allowing the bombing of Birmigham.

Coventry actually, Bull.

[Cicero]

Can you imagine Churchill trying to fight a war in todays age - 'not in my name Mr Churchill' - 'Support the Nazi freedom fighters'!

"Churchill. The greatest war leader in British history, or an egomaniacal war monger". Discuss

[oracle]

Yeah good point - and if you or your loved ones get bombed to bits on the underground by Al and his Queda - thats just collateral too eh?

Murder.. is Murder ... is Murder... Or did the whole Jesus thing pass everyone by?

if you hadn't noticed the elites play by slightly different rules.

it is a matter of farming.

should your livestock numbers get out of control,then a thinning down of the herd becomes necessary.

you can window dress it as mad mullahs from afghanistan,bignose jews,wogs,*****,gerries,huns,slitty-eyes chinks whatever....when people realise what the act of war is then it can stop.Worth bearing in mind that at some point in the future these same elites might think we're becoming a bit too clever for their liking and do it to us.

when the PM or whoever takes the stage at a press conference to praise our dead soldiers and commend the "sacrifice" they made,it is not a term plucked out of thin air.

[Prescience]

When considering Churchill's order to sink the French fleet, based in Oran, Algeria, it is critical to remember that at this time, France was in political turmoil.

Leading politicians had surrendered much of France to Germany and had run away from Paris and set-up the Vichy Government under Marshall Pétain, in the South.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vichy_France

http://www.digitalsurvivors.com/archives/c...frenchfleet.php

Charles de Gaulle, of course, stated that Pétain and his cabinet were traitors: fled to London and set up the Free French Army.

De Gaulle broadcast regularly to France from London.

Churchill's major and legitimate concern was that the mainly intact French fleet would fall into German hands and become part of the already strong Kriegsmarine.

At this time, Britain's fleet was archaic - thanks to the peacemongers and pacifists - a majority of capital ships dating back to WWI. The sinking of the HMS Hood, by Bismarck illustrated this well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Hood_(51)

[Cicero]

"At this time, Britain's fleet was archaic - thanks to the peacemongers and pacifists - a majority of capital ships dating back to WWI. The sinking of the HMS Hood, by Bismarck illustrated this well."

To paraphrase Mark Twain, history tends to rhyme:

"At this time, Britain's fleet was archaic - thanks to the Nulabour peacemongers and pacifists - a majority of capital ships dating back to the 1980's."

[Seydel]

I posted what's below in another thread but it fits here too about the character of the man. He was also a 33rd degree freemason.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...p.html?ITO=1490

- - Secret of the Lusitania: Arms find challenges Allied claims it was solely a passenger ship

By Sam Greenhill

Her sinking with the loss of almost 1,200 lives caused such outrage that it propelled the U.S. into the First World War.

But now divers have revealed a dark secret about the cargo carried by the Lusitania on its final journey in May 1915.

Munitions they found in the hold suggest that the Germans had been right all along in claiming the ship was carrying war materials and was a legitimate military target.

The Cunard vessel, steaming from New York to Liverpool, was sunk eight miles off the Irish coast by a U-boat.

Maintaining that the Lusitania was solely a passenger vessel, the British quickly accused the 'Pirate Hun' of

slaughtering civilians.

The disaster was used to whip up anti-German anger, especially in the U.S., where 128 of the 1,198 victims came from.

A hundred of the dead were children, many of them under two.

Robert Lansing, the U.S. secretary of state, later wrote that the sinking gave him the 'conviction we would ultimately become the ally of Britain'.

Americans were even told, falsely, that German children were given a day off school to celebrate the sinking of the Lusitania.

The disaster inspired a multitude of recruitment posters demanding vengeance for the victims.

One, famously showing a young mother slipping below the waves with her baby, carried the simple slogan 'Enlist'.

Two years later, the Americans joined the Allies as an associated power - a decision that turned the war decisively against Germany.

The diving team estimates that around four million rounds of U.S.-manufactured Remington .303 bullets lie in the Lusitania's hold at a depth of 300ft.

The Germans had insisted the Lusitania - the fastest liner in the North Atlantic - was being used as a weapons ship to break the blockade Berlin had been trying to impose around Britain since the outbreak of hostilities in August 1914.

Winston Churchill, who was first Lord of the Admiralty and has long been suspected of knowing more about the circumstances of the attack than he let on in public, wrote in a confidential letter shortly before the sinking that some German submarine attacks were to be welcomed.

He said: 'It is most important to attract neutral shipping to our shores, in the hope especially of embroiling the U.S. with Germany.

'For our part we want the traffic - the more the better and if some of it gets into trouble, better still.'

Hampton Sides, a writer with Men's Vogue in the U.S., witnessed the divers' discovery.

He said: 'They are bullets that were expressly manufactured to kill Germans in World War I - bullets that British officials in Whitehall, and American officials in Washington, have long denied were aboard the Lusitania.'

The discovery may help explain why the 787ft Lusitania sank within 18 minutes of a single German torpedo slamming into its hull.

Some of the 764 survivors reported a second explosion which might have been munitions going off.

Gregg Bemis, an American businessman who owns the rights to the wreck and is funding its exploration, said: 'Those four million rounds of .303s were not just some private hunter's stash.

'Now that we've found it, the British can't deny any more that there was ammunition on board. That raises the question of what else was on board.

'There were literally tons and tons of stuff stored in unrefrigerated cargo holds that were dubiously marked cheese, butter and oysters.

'I've always felt there were some significant high explosives in the holds - shells, powder, gun cotton - that were set off by the torpedo and the inflow of water. That's what sank the ship.'

Mr Bemis is planning to commission further dives next year in a full-scale forensic examination of the wreck off County Cork. - -

As a footnote, in 2002 the BBC conducted a Who's the Greatest Ever Briton poll. Churchill came first with 477,000 votes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/t...dio/2509465.stm

[New Tarbuck]

You are saying that invading Iraq and killing a million people is a noble cause?

The world is full of War-mongers - ours are better at it right now - be thankful for that, just don't expect any 'nobility' from our enemies when they aren't.

[erranta]

if you hadn't noticed the elites play by slightly different rules.

it is a matter of farming.

should your livestock numbers get out of control,then a thinning down of the herd becomes necessary.

you can window dress it as mad mullahs from afghanistan,bignose jews,wogs,*****,gerries,huns,slitty-eyes chinks whatever....when people realise what the act of war is then it can stop.Worth bearing in mind that at some point in the future these same elites might think we're becoming a bit too clever for their liking and do it to us.

when the PM or whoever takes the stage at a press conference to praise our dead soldiers and commend the "sacrifice" they made,it is not a term plucked out of thin air.

I find it hard to fathom on here, after reading all the 'brainwashed' diatribes about 'Chavs' -

that they don't realise they are slagging off the majority of British Forces (Front line Red-meat) who are recruited from such areas to 'protect' them!

[erranta]

The world is full of War-mongers - ours are better at it right now - be thankful for that, just don't expect any 'nobility' from our enemies when they aren't.

Here's one - Churchill as a young officer in Saarf Africa was involved with the setting up of the first recorded 'Concentration Camps' - A Blitish Invention (as far as I know)!

[New Tarbuck]

Here's one - Churchill as a young officer in Saarf Africa was involved with the setting up of the first recorded 'Concentration Camps' - A Blitish Invention (as far as I know)!

Must be true - I just read it on the internet..

[erranta]

I posted what's below in another thread but it fits here too about the character of the man. He was also a 33rd degree freemason.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...p.html?ITO=1490

- - Secret of the Lusitania: Arms find challenges Allied claims it was solely a passenger ship

By Sam Greenhill

Her sinking with the loss of almost 1,200 lives caused such outrage that it propelled the U.S. into the First World War.

But now divers have revealed a dark secret about the cargo carried by the Lusitania on its final journey in May 1915.

Munitions they found in the hold suggest that the Germans had been right all along in claiming the ship was carrying war materials and was a legitimate military target.

The Cunard vessel, steaming from New York to Liverpool, was sunk eight miles off the Irish coast by a U-boat.

Maintaining that the Lusitania was solely a passenger vessel, the British quickly accused the 'Pirate Hun' of

slaughtering civilians.

The disaster was used to whip up anti-German anger, especially in the U.S., where 128 of the 1,198 victims came from.

A hundred of the dead were children, many of them under two.

Robert Lansing, the U.S. secretary of state, later wrote that the sinking gave him the 'conviction we would ultimately become the ally of Britain'.

Americans were even told, falsely, that German children were given a day off school to celebrate the sinking of the Lusitania.

The disaster inspired a multitude of recruitment posters demanding vengeance for the victims.

One, famously showing a young mother slipping below the waves with her baby, carried the simple slogan 'Enlist'.

Two years later, the Americans joined the Allies as an associated power - a decision that turned the war decisively against Germany.

The diving team estimates that around four million rounds of U.S.-manufactured Remington .303 bullets lie in the Lusitania's hold at a depth of 300ft.

The Germans had insisted the Lusitania - the fastest liner in the North Atlantic - was being used as a weapons ship to break the blockade Berlin had been trying to impose around Britain since the outbreak of hostilities in August 1914.

Winston Churchill, who was first Lord of the Admiralty and has long been suspected of knowing more about the circumstances of the attack than he let on in public, wrote in a confidential letter shortly before the sinking that some German submarine attacks were to be welcomed.

He said: 'It is most important to attract neutral shipping to our shores, in the hope especially of embroiling the U.S. with Germany.

'For our part we want the traffic - the more the better and if some of it gets into trouble, better still.'

Hampton Sides, a writer with Men's Vogue in the U.S., witnessed the divers' discovery.

He said: 'They are bullets that were expressly manufactured to kill Germans in World War I - bullets that British officials in Whitehall, and American officials in Washington, have long denied were aboard the Lusitania.'

The discovery may help explain why the 787ft Lusitania sank within 18 minutes of a single German torpedo slamming into its hull.

Some of the 764 survivors reported a second explosion which might have been munitions going off.

Gregg Bemis, an American businessman who owns the rights to the wreck and is funding its exploration, said: 'Those four million rounds of .303s were not just some private hunter's stash.

'Now that we've found it, the British can't deny any more that there was ammunition on board. That raises the question of what else was on board.

'There were literally tons and tons of stuff stored in unrefrigerated cargo holds that were dubiously marked cheese, butter and oysters.

'I've always felt there were some significant high explosives in the holds - shells, powder, gun cotton - that were set off by the torpedo and the inflow of water. That's what sank the ship.'

Mr Bemis is planning to commission further dives next year in a full-scale forensic examination of the wreck off County Cork. - -

As a footnote, in 2002 the BBC conducted a Who's the Greatest Ever Briton poll. Churchill came first with 477,000 votes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/t...dio/2509465.stm

They've wiped that Mail link! Did you download text before they erased the page?

Yes his Mother also had a Serpent tattoo around her wrist! She was "more of the panther than of the woman in her look"

Big Cats = illuminati/Royalty symbols(why the 'elusive' Black cats are Always in the press - proxy/worship)

He was illuminati/Top Mason then Knight of the Garter( an overseeing layer Masons are answerable to)

Marlborough link (WOODSTOCK) / Jerome(New York USA)

On his mothers side legend distant relative was a Red Indian Chief!

[erranta]

Must be true - I just read it on the internet..

I saw it in a Biographical film!

[New Tarbuck]

erranta - you see lots of things!

Stick to what you know - crack-pot lizardman conspiracy theories and David Icke's trackie-bottomed Jesus freakery!

[Seydel]

They've wiped that Mail link! Did you download text before they erased the page?

Yes his Mother also had a Serpent tattoo around her wrist! She was "more of the panther than of the woman in her look"

Big Cats = illuminati/Royalty symbols(why the 'elusive' Black cats are Always in the press - proxy/worship)

He was illuminati/Top Mason then Knight of the Garter( an overseeing layer Masons are answerable to)

Marlborough link (WOODSTOCK) / Jerome(New York USA)

On his mothers side legend distant relative was a Red Indian Chief!

I copied it from another contribution I made in this thread http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...howtopic=115312 four days ago. when that same link most definitely worked as I copied and pasted it from there.