Altrincham/hale/halebarns

[Snozzle]

It seems to lack a cellar which limits a family's options somewhat. Hence the price but I still expect it to go over asking unless there is something drastically wrong with the place. And that is why I am having to fold and sit this game out.

Edit: Look at the last picture, no. 24, its the only house out of 5 visible without a dormer loft conversion. I don't think I can recall seeing this phenomenon anywhere less prosperous. And by prosperous I mean paying over the odds for tiny houses. Of course its probably endemic in London too.

Watersums are showing a Bold St at 240k with open house at some point. I heard there was lots of interest at, if not over, the 3% stamp duty threshold.

Yeah a cellar is important for these houses. Personally I'm not a fan of the dormer type conversion but it depends how high your roof is, because it may be necessary.

There is another one on Bold street now for 269 k

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-43026725.html?utm_content=ealertspropertylink&utm_medium=email&utm_source=emailupdates&utm_campaign=emailupdates1day&utm_term=buying&sc_id=6867987&onetime_FromEmail=true

These are eye watering sums, I think, for rather modest houses although of course they are the 'right location'.

I'll try and keep a track of how much they go for, especially that 240 k Bold street one.

Just from my limited viewpoint, the market for these types of houses in Alty-Hale is fairly feverish at the moment with lots of people trying to buy and estate agents flat out. I take some comfort from this because I don't think it can last, so I'll keep my eye on things at least until the summer and we'll see how much supply becomes available. I do not want to get into a bidding war over these types of properties.

[Snozzle]

Yeah and all we need is people to set new highs for b street terraces. :angry:

[Andy T]

It seems to lack a cellar which limits a family's options somewhat. Hence the price but I still expect it to go over asking unless there is something drastically wrong with the place. And that is why I am having to fold and sit this game out.

Edit: Look at the last picture, no. 24, its the only house out of 5 visible without a dormer loft conversion. I don't think I can recall seeing this phenomenon anywhere less prosperous. And by prosperous I mean paying over the odds for tiny houses. Of course its probably endemic in London too.

Watersums are showing a Bold St at 240k with open house at some point. I heard there was lots of interest at, if not over, the 3% stamp duty threshold.

Yeah a cellar is important for these houses. Personally I'm not a fan of the dormer type conversion but it depends how high your roof is, because it may be necessary.

There is another one on Bold street now for 269 k

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-43026725.html?utm_content=ealertspropertylink&utm_medium=email&utm_source=emailupdates&utm_campaign=emailupdates1day&utm_term=buying&sc_id=6867987&onetime_FromEmail=true

These are eye watering sums, I think, for rather modest houses although of course they are the 'right location'.

I'll try and keep a track of how much they go for, especially that 240 k Bold street one.

Just from my limited viewpoint, the market for these types of houses in Alty-Hale is fairly feverish at the moment with lots of people trying to buy and estate agents flat out. I take some comfort from this because I don't think it can last, so I'll keep my eye on things at least until the summer and we'll see how much supply becomes available. I do not want to get into a bidding war over these types of properties.

My first thought was 'No one will pay more than 250k for that 2 bed' but then I don't know the Hale market that well.

Skimming through Zoopla, No. 10 (2 bed) sold for 265k in June 2013 (Call it 270k with the extra duty ) but prior to that, I can't see any two beds that have ever surpassed 250k on Beech road.

So the question is, is one single sale at 265k going to set a new 2 bed benchmark for the road? Seems madness to me, paying over 250k now, if things go stale in the future or even if things cool off slightly you may struggle to sell it for over the 250k threshold.

Also noticed that No 14 (3 bed) sold for 250k Aug 2012, Sold again for 320k May 2013 :angry:

[united4ever]

Looking at this one in Timperley.

Been on the market for a while. Floorplan is unusual. They extended to create an open plan living area next to the kitchen. Looks odd with the old external window looking through into the lounge. Also, do you think have the toilet more or less in the dining room is a big no no for buyers....wonder why they didn't extend to the side of the house (although it is a bit narrow). That would be how most people would extend a traditional semi I guess.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-39641203.html

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

An old "friend" of this thread?

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=41877973&sale=50446184&country=england

It's only money after all.

[Venger]

An old "friend" of this thread?

http://www.rightmove...country=england

It's only money after all.

Noticed that one. Did some research a while ago, and think it was a property-developer group. Thick PDF outlining a claim, and issues with someone living there.

However I could be wrong. Get a bit mixed up with McMansions. Was it a buy old house to knock-down, to new McMansion? Can't recall. I'm not going to look it up again.

Just good to see some indication of market weakness and reversal, for some recent buyers at upper end of market.

Here's one I've not had the energy to list up, in recent days.

http://www.rightmove...y-29242698.html

Some issue that needs fixing / money spent. Also check out the chimneys, whilst you marvel at its all-round prettiness.

I remember when it was on the market before... asking at least £2.5m, and maybe more before that. Rolled my eyes at the name of the house as well. (One day perhaps planning will be more amenable to allowing at least 2 nice spacious houses to be built on such sites, and put a stop on McMansions.)

You can see it in this archived link: http://www.zoopla.co...15-8rb/20983527

Edit: oh its 'name' not in that link above.. this one instead: http://www.rightmove...y-33164488.html

Was also up for rent at this price, although I just can't imagine any takers around that: http://www.zoopla.co...15-8rb/21202814

Here is the historical price data. http://www.rightmove...country=england

The indications to me are the previous house on the site was bought in 2007, but then an offer came in from someone else for that buyer to flip it to in 2008, for a quick profit. That the latest buyer then knocked down existing house and built the McMansion. You can see the build in progress on the streetview.

Local planning site info = ... oh it's telling me the site is down at the moment.

Anyway it came back with a limited company for the application for development, which on initial searches, appears to be in receivership now, unless there is a company with an almost identical name which isn't this company involved.

Proposal: Demolition of existing dwelling. Erection of detached two storey dwelling with accommodation in the roofspace and at basement level and attached double garage. Creation of new vehicular access and closure of existing vehicular access.

Approved With Conditions 07-07-2008

Edited February 10, 2014 by Venger

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

I'd seen the Hale Road house come up. Another one taking a bath by the looks of it. Remember driving past it ever since we moved here.

There a similar build in progress McMansion further along that seems to have stopped for the time being.

And my favourite of all, is one on Langham Road just up from the hotel that has been in progress ever since I moved here, 4 years ago. Was a spate of work a few months ago but gone quiet again.

[R K]

I'd seen the Hale Road house come up. Another one taking a bath by the looks of it. Remember driving past it ever since we moved here.

There a similar build in progress McMansion further along that seems to have stopped for the time being.

And my favourite of all, is one on Langham Road just up from the hotel that has been in progress ever since I moved here, 4 years ago. Was a spate of work a few months ago but gone quiet again.

The one slightly bigger than Buckingham Palace with enough earth excavated to prevent the Thames flooding for the next million years?

On the plus side it'll be impossible to get your Bentley out the gate without having the front taken off by the number 246 bus every morning, and it overlooks a rather tired looking hotel. Apart from that, what's not to love?

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Is it me or is £471 per square foot and needs work a bit much or what?

[Snozzle]

Is it me or is £471 per square foot and needs work a bit much or what?

Depends where and whether the EA have inflated the square footage with unconverted cellars?

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Depends where and whether the EA have inflated the square footage with unconverted cellars?

Willow Tree Road, no cellars and not a plot big enough to demolish and sensibly rebuild

[bonse]

the property on hale road has always struck me as being better looking as a pair of semis, rather than one house with 2 bays.

the chimneys also look like an after thought as in we've got fireplaces on the ground floor whats going to happen to the smoke, so instead of building chimneys that take the smoke up into the centre of the house and out through the apex of the roof, they have come up with a crap compromise.

perhaps designed by the owners 16 year old son who fancies himself as an architect.

[Aria]

Hi,

I came across the website and the discussion about Hale and Altrincham and it has been very helpful. We moved recently to Manchester and we are now looking to buy a house. We looked at the Altrincham/Hale area and we liked it more than others in South Manchester (when compared to Sale/Timperley or Chorlton/Didsbury). We cannot afford though the price for most of the houses in this area (our budget could stretch up to £330,000). We saw recently some houses close to the Altrincham football grounds on the side of Hale and we liked some of them (between Sandileigh Drive and Cleveland Road). One of them was this: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-44607050.html#map Personally, we do not have a problem with being close to the stadium. But we are not sure if this area and the prices there are considered ok. If you know anything about the area, your views would be particularly useful. Thanks!

[Snozzle]

Moss lane is ok, perhaps not considered the best area around Alty/Hale but much better than Broadheath, Navvy Road, etc IMHO.

[R K]

Remember this one in Bowdon? It was on one of the TV do-er upper programs; links back up the thread somewhere (I'll try and find it when I have a moment)

Woman developer whose partner had a kitchen design company.

I feel sure she had bought it 'for the long term' (). Anyway, it's just gone on the market...............

http://www.rightmove...y-44053790.html

EDIT:

Found the prior sold entry. October 2009 £357,000

http://www.rightmove...country=england

So she's asking for a £423,000 mark up for the work she's done. 118% of the original puchase price. Feels a tad strong.

EDIT2: Found the original link - post 969 on this thread dated 25th April 2013.

http://www.housepric...ost&p=909311507

So the valuations were between £595k and £650k in 2011. She's waited 2 years and whacked it on the market at £780k.

Listing from November must have been pulled at some point.

It's just gone back up again. Same agent, same price.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-45041603.html

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

20% in 18 months

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=45077285&sale=48144251&country=england

No bubble in the north

[R K]

20% in 18 months

http://www.rightmove...country=england

No bubble in the north

Altrincham's always been a bit of a micro-bubble. Not representative of 'North' in general. Last sold price looked reasonable I think.

2003 sold £232k. So just before the '04-'07 credit bubble (I know others disagree with my analysis of the credit bubble duration). If you adjust that for 11 years inflation then with, say, 10% off asking it looks a much better buy than 2003. Very Convenient location but for £300k think you can do better.

Actually quite like the interior space from the pics, though not a big fan of weird rooflines and standing up into a velux headspace.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Altrincham's always been a bit of a micro-bubble. Not representative of 'North' in general. Last sold price looked reasonable I think.

2003 sold £232k. So just before the '04-'07 credit bubble (I know others disagree with my analysis of the credit bubble duration). If you adjust that for 11 years inflation then with, say, 10% off asking it looks a much better buy than 2003. Very Convenient location but for £300k think you can do better.

Actually quite like the interior space from the pics, though not a big fan of weird rooflines and standing up into a velux headspace.

Yes and no, I would have been interested at the time but it was a little too early for me and it was sstc before we were 'ready'.

It's still a house on a cul de sac with a school at the end of it which is a major pisser to some people.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Hi,

I came across the website and the discussion about Hale and Altrincham and it has been very helpful. We moved recently to Manchester and we are now looking to buy a house. We looked at the Altrincham/Hale area and we liked it more than others in South Manchester (when compared to Sale/Timperley or Chorlton/Didsbury). We cannot afford though the price for most of the houses in this area (our budget could stretch up to £330,000). We saw recently some houses close to the Altrincham football grounds on the side of Hale and we liked some of them (between Sandileigh Drive and Cleveland Road). One of them was this: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-44607050.html#map Personally, we do not have a problem with being close to the stadium. But we are not sure if this area and the prices there are considered ok. If you know anything about the area, your views would be particularly useful. Thanks!

Not that my option is worth much but that price (like everything else at the moment) is optimistic.

I wouldn't discount Sand. Ave. As it doesn't face the football ground but I'd be looking for better value than that.

Unfortunately value got the bus out of town at the start of 2013.

[R K]

Yes and no, I would have been interested at the time but it was a little too early for me and it was sstc before we were 'ready'.

It's still a house on a cul de sac with a school at the end of it which is a major pisser to some people.

Never had cause to drive/walk down Osborne Rd but it looks very pleasant on street view with houses well presented and in good nick. Agree you either see the cul-de-sac/school as a benefit or a pain the ar5e. I'd prefer it to, say, round the corner on the main road. Less sure about the petrol station and possible fumes rolling off the flyover but if it's ok for a school I'm probably being picky. The adjacent house still has its garage whereas it's been converted to living space on this one. On reflection somewhere around £250k would look more reasonable. Be interested to see what it sells for. I'd guess somewhere around £275k. Would be v. surprised if it gets near asking.

[Venger]

Altrincham's always been a bit of a micro-bubble. Not representative of 'North' in general. Last sold price looked reasonable I think.

2003 sold £232k. So just before the '04-'07 credit bubble (I know others disagree with my analysis of the credit bubble duration). If you adjust that for 11 years inflation then with, say, 10% off asking it looks a much better buy than 2003. Very Convenient location but for £300k think you can do better.

Actually quite like the interior space from the pics, though not a big fan of weird rooflines and standing up into a velux headspace.

I am a fish. Brbrbrbrbrbrrbrbrbrbr.

2003 I can only presume had a big newbuild premium involved.

I don't understand things at all; these asking prices / sold prices / what 11 years of inflation means against way things are now with income pressures and cost-of-living. £270K-£300K. I might be able to afford a packet of soda crystals to scatter and clear the moss on the little driveway, then retreat inside through the composite looking door, below the weird downpipe from a gutter section, and behold what I'd got for the debt.

2000/01 was the beginning for me.

[R K]

I am a fish. Brbrbrbrbrbrrbrbrbrbr.

2003 I can only presume had a big newbuild premium involved.

I don't understand things at all; these asking prices / sold prices / what 11 years of inflation means against way things are now with income pressures and cost-of-living. £270K-£300K. I might be able to afford a packet of soda crystals to scatter and clear the moss on the little driveway, then retreat inside through the composite looking door, below the weird downpipe from a gutter section, and behold what I'd got for the debt.

2000/01 was the beginning for me.

Real prices are nominal prices adjusted for inflation (RPI) no? We know actual nominal sold prices, we know what RPI has been for the last 11 years and we can take a view on what prospective sold might be against current asking. Agree re new build premium.

'Bubbles' in my world have a specific meaning. Just because prices are above trend doesn't of itself mean there's a bubble hence why I qualified the point re the credit/derivatives bubble which (I'd argue) was '04-'07 give or take.

Agree re wages, hence why prices/earnings ratio remains elevated (in UK but not in US although has risen somewhat since the bust). The general question then is how and over what timescale might that revert (if it does), what is a reasonable price for that house in that location, all else equal, and if prices are elevated and likely to fall in the future, then can that risk be quantified, and if so is it acceptable. Notwithstanding that it's a market with competing buyers/sellers who will all be making similar judgments (one imagines).

If you have a different way to arrive at a price then I'm all ears...........

p.s. I'm not claiming to be right or wrong, I'm simply offering my 2p'orth. It may well be that the nominal price reflation since Spring '09 will at some point come crashing down, BoE/treasury will find themselves helpless to prevent it, nominal (and real) prices will collapse, yields will rocket and prices/earnings will fall below trend (or at least below the trend that existed prior to this period). Personally, I doubt it, but it remains a possibility.

Edited February 28, 2014 by R K

[Venger]

Real prices are nominal prices adjusted for inflation (RPI) no? We know actual nominal sold prices, we know what RPI has been for the last 11 years and we can take a view on what prospective sold might be against current asking. Agree re new build premium.

'Bubbles' in my world have a specific meaning. Just because prices are above trend doesn't of itself mean there's a bubble hence why I qualified the point re the credit/derivatives bubble which (I'd argue) was '04-'07 give or take.

Agree re wages, hence why prices/earnings ratio remains elevated (in UK but not in US although has risen somewhat since the bust). The general question then is how and over what timescale might that revert (if it does), what is a reasonable price for that house in that location, all else equal, and if prices are elevated and likely to fall in the future, then can that risk be quantified, and if so is it acceptable. Notwithstanding that it's a market with competing buyers/sellers who will all be making similar judgments (one imagines).

If you have a different way to arrive at a price then I'm all ears...........

p.s. I'm not claiming to be right or wrong, I'm simply offering my 2p'orth. It may well be that the nominal price reflation since Spring '09 will at some point come crashing down, BoE/treasury will find themselves helpless to prevent it, nominal (and real) prices will collapse, yields will rocket and prices/earnings will fall below trend (or at least below the trend that existed prior to this period). Personally, I doubt it, but it remains a possibility.

You have expertise in the financial sector, using technical financial terms in other posts, that I've previously had to look up. And all the experience of your career to draw on. (Something high in the finance sector as I recall it.) You've got some, if not all, the big calls right so far.

It's a question I wrestle with and do not know the answer to. Sometimes like with my posting last night, feel hopelessly lost with the market. Meanwhile time... months, years, just keep passing by, and market remaining expensive (in my view - whereas others making different judgments, which they're perfectly entitled to do). It doesn't mean a bubble I agree, and I sometimes think there is some 'smoothing' going on with foreign money/buyers in UK, and all the cash-buyers, QE and other.

I'm not arguing with any of your points above at all. They seem entirely reasonable. At least you leave open the possibility of unpreventable correction, even if you doubt it. The authorities have managed to buck all sorts of difficulties so far, via intervention measures.

[R K]

You have expertise in the financial sector, using technical financial terms in other posts, that I've previously had to look up. And all the experience of your career to draw on. (Something high in the finance sector as I recall it.) You've got some, if not all, the big calls right so far.

It's a question I wrestle with and do not know the answer to. Sometimes like with my posting last night, feel hopelessly lost with the market. Meanwhile time... months, years, just keep passing by, and market remaining expensive (in my view - whereas others making different judgments, which they're perfectly entitled to do). It doesn't mean a bubble I agree, and I sometimes think there is some 'smoothing' going on with foreign money/buyers in UK, and all the cash-buyers, QE and other.

I'm not arguing with any of your points above at all. They seem entirely reasonable. At least you leave open the possibility of unpreventable correction, even if you doubt it. The authorities have managed to buck all sorts of difficulties so far, via intervention measures.

I agree completely with your sentiment. If I give a personal view on anything it's just that. I claim no particular prescience. As I say, if one looks at the US housing market, I think you can make a good case that the bubble completely burst and for a time fell below it's long run 'value'.

For well documented reasons the UK has created all sorts of props to prevent that happening here, so we're now in the much more difficult and frustrating situation of not knowing whether that can be sustained or not. If you look back to other busts, early 80s and early 90s for instance, there were (different) reasons why real prices mostly reverted (nominal less so due to higher inflation) so for buyers it was more like the US this time. Houses were reasonably priced on a long-term view in early-mid 80s and mid 90s, irrespective of what happened after that.

But today I don't think it's possible to say that at all given these ongoing props. The UK really seems to be doing something very unusual with its housing market and it's not terribly straightforward trying to figure out whether it will work or not. Hence why I've tried to look at other measures such as nominal prices adjusted for RPI. I only chose 2003 'cause there was a sale price then for that house. One could equally take, say, the real low point of the last bust around 1995 and adjust prices for RPI to today and see where a reasonable real 'low' ought to be. I think there's also been a long term real price trend of around +1.5% p.a. so you'd probably want to adjust for that too. I agree also with your point about falling real wages though. I'd argue that it's probably wages that are the main problem in the prices/wages equation, but again, others may hold a different view. These are very strange times and outcomes are likely to be a bit of a coin toss unless/until we see prices/wages ratio finally fall back to long term lows.

[howarden]

I've not visited for a while, I think I posted about my offer on a house near Navigation Road station that was sold by sealed bid. It sold for £250k in the end, so our upper offer of £242k (iirc) wasn't too far away.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=24449715&sale=48697616&country=england

Anyway, a challenge, can anyone post a link to a regular home they actually like, asking price no object? (No mega mansions, just regular homes for regular joes).