An Answer Please

[Rain'ard]

Is there a civilised, democratic, western style, modern society or nation that does not cost 80% its inhabitants one third to a half of their income just to live in a house?

Of course the figures stated are general, but my question is genuine and relevant to the forum.

[pod]

Is there a civilised, democratic, western style, modern society or nation that does not cost 80% its inhabitants one third to a half of their income just to live in a house?

Of course the figures stated are general, but my question is genuine and relevant to the forum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Canada...? (just a guess)

[Rain'ard]

I think I should have titled the thread "Are we the only p***ts?

[messychopper]

Is there a civilised, democratic, western style, modern society or nation that does not cost 80% its inhabitants one third to a half of their income just to live in a house?

Of course the figures stated are general, but my question is genuine and relevant to the forum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

America ?

[gone west]

Canada...? (just a guess)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not if you live in Vancouver. Recent figures are about 57% of average income for average house. Other big cities are not much different. Since 85% of Canadians live in cities, its not here your looking for.

[zorn]

Is there a civilised, democratic, western style, modern society or nation that does not cost 80% its inhabitants one third to a half of their income just to live in a house?

Of course the figures stated are general, but my question is genuine and relevant to the forum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Average mortgage debt is a little under £40,000. Average mortgage interest payments are thus around £2,400 per year -- capital repayments are savings, not costs, and so may be excluded. Average earnings are over £24,000 per year. Assuming the average mortgaged household has 1.5 wage earners, mortgage repayments thus average around 7% of gross household income. It is therefore impossible that 80% of households are paying over a third of their income.

Do not confuse new first time buyers, who are a small minority, with the population at large, most of whom bought many years ago and have old, small mortgages that are not financial burdens.

[gone west]

Do not confuse new first time buyers, who are a small minority,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and growing smaller all the time, apparently

[BandWagon]

In many parts of Greece mortgages aren't used. The land is usually in the family/inherited, and people build a house with money they currently have.

When they run out of money, they stop building. When they have more money, they build some more.

I suspect that part of the problem in the UK is that people's brains stop working when they have to deal with amounts of money over £1000. (Look at car repayments)

Many taking out a mortgage will only look at the monthly payments, forget the fact that at some stage you still have to repay the capital.

So the place costs 10 times my earnings, I can still make the monthly payments. Problem is when you realise you don't have enough years in your life to actually pay for the place!

People have lost the common sense to consider that it only takes a few months (and a few men) and some land to build a house.

[Rain'ard]

I see your point Zorn, but I don’t know about using averages as data. We are told that average income is £25,000 pa, and the average council house rent is £80 pw. That is about 20% of income, but it’s not like that in real terms. I don’t understand capital repayment being savings. Although, I do consider my savings, as a large deposit going toward capital repayment.

Edited June 15, 2005 by wheresmyfoxhole

[Rain'ard]

Ohh Dr Bubb, I couldn't be a Bull, I'd rather live in a Hoover bag

[Justice]

Spain has had it’s day as it’s priced itself of the market and now the authorities are turning nasty on the Brits and Germanys who brought property. Builders can snatch your land and to add insult to injury, make you pay the costs to develop the land.

Bulgaria is the place to be, True the Mafia will knock your door but it comes in a lot cheaper than Blair knocking the door, paying £1000+ for nothing and having the bailiffs sent in if you don’t pay.

[sceptic]

Is there a civilised, democratic, western style, modern society or nation that does not cost 80% its inhabitants one third to a half of their income just to live in a house?

Of course the figures stated are general, but my question is genuine and relevant to the forum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Try Germany

[right_freds_dead]

People have lost the common sense to consider that it only takes a few months (and a few men) and some land to build a house.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i see what you mean. anybody would think bricks had to be mined from the moon.

a lot of these 200k houses were built 100 years ago by methodist nutters and basic tools. im sure its not all that complicated to build more. this island has LOTS OF LAND. you drive on the motoryway and i pass miles of fields occupied by ONE or TWO SHEEP.....

we put sheep before families over here.

[Rain'ard]

My old house was built by p**sed workman, not Methodist nutters. I can’t imagine Charles Wesley on a self build scheme, perhaps he did the labouring.

[Time to raise the rents.]

Is there a civilised, democratic, western style, modern society or nation that does not cost 80% its inhabitants one third to a half of their income just to live in a house?

Of course the figures stated are general, but my question is genuine and relevant to the forum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sweden is a wonderful country where housing costs around 20% of the average families income.

There is low crime, great health care, great retirement care, the country has managed to stay out of wars for 300 years. Apart from the language, the culture is very similar to the UK.

The unfortunate side effect of these great things is that the govt takes around 60% of GDP in taxes (about 50% of a persons income in direct tax & VAT leaving you with much less to pay for decent things in your life) and the country is full of layabouts milking the system. So if you see yourself as someone who's going places, the system can drag you down here.

Why not look for a country where people try to better themselves in an all or nothing grab at life?

[CrashIsUnderWay]

:-) so true, Bubba!

And they are all inbred too.

Show me a swede with a chin and I'll show you a Dane.

[Henrik]

Sweden is a wonderful country where housing costs around 20% of the average families income.

There is low crime, great health care, great retirement care, the country has managed to stay out of wars for 300 years. Apart from the language, the culture is very similar to the UK.

The unfortunate side effect of these great things is that the govt takes around 60% of GDP in taxes (about 50% of a persons income in direct tax & VAT leaving you with much less to pay for decent things in your life) and the country is full of layabouts milking the system. So if you see yourself as someone who's going places, the system can drag you down here.

Why not look for a country where people try to better themselves in an all or nothing grab at life?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sorry, but what is your obsession with Sweden being this perfect place? It certainly isn't, and that's why I'm not living there anymore.

There's lots of unemployment (and rising!), taxes are 51.4% of GDP. It's also more American than English, IMO.

Oh, and the lay-abouts... from my experience, there are more layabouts in the UK than there are in Sweden.

[zorn]

Sweden is a wonderful country where housing costs around 20% of the average families income.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

20% is the same as the UK. And in the UK, you pay much less tax, too.

(Average household income £565 per week, average housing-related costs £116 per week.)

[van hoogstraten]

I heard a story told to me by a Dane that all the risk takers & aggressive types left on the longboats on Viking sorties years ago and settled in places like the UK, Germany etc, leaving behind the wimpy types & the women, which is why the Scandinavian males bar the Finns (who couldn’t get it together to build longships-too busy whipping eachother with birch twigs in the sauna) are now a pretty timid bunch.

[Red Baron]

I know Sweden very well having worked extensively with SAAB Aviation (absolutely nothing to do with SAAB motor cars by the way, although the carmaker would like to think so).

The Swedes are great; but the country is boring, full of Christmas trees and trolls (the real ones).

[wtc]

Sweden is a wonderful country where housing costs around 20% of the average families income.

There is low crime, great health care, great retirement care, the country has managed to stay out of wars for 300 years. Apart from the language, the culture is very similar to the UK.

The unfortunate side effect of these great things is that the govt takes around 60% of GDP in taxes (about 50% of a persons income in direct tax & VAT leaving you with much less to pay for decent things in your life) and the country is full of layabouts milking the system. So if you see yourself as someone who's going places, the system can drag you down here.

Why not look for a country where people try to better themselves in an all or nothing grab at life?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I have to agree with some of what TTRTR is saying, I have worked in Sweden breifly and met a lot of Swedes through work and my impressions were of a highly motivated country with, generally speaking, a highly educated population. They seem to offer good services as well.

As for avoiding wars.......well they did allow the Nazis free passage through there country so they could invade the rest of Scandinavia Avoiding wars by screwing over your neighbours basically then isn't it?

[Rain'ard]

How can you say the Swedes have avoided wars, don’t you know their national produce has been weapons. I wouldn’t call them wimpy either when they produce macho Volvo cars, although I do consider it a bit over cautious driving in daylight with the lights on.

[Time to raise the rents.]

I'm sorry, but what is your obsession with Sweden being this perfect place? It certainly isn't, and that's why I'm not living there anymore.

There's lots of unemployment (and rising!), taxes are 51.4% of GDP. It's also more American than English, IMO.

Oh, and the lay-abouts... from my experience, there are more layabouts in the UK than there are in Sweden.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hej Henrik,

Who said it was perfect? Read my post again.

The key to Sweden is earn your money outside the country & spend it here.

And couldn't agree with you more re the layabouts in the UK!