FedupTeddiBear Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) NOT BAD EH? £60K !!! Within 6 years it is hard not to be on £37K a year with no responsibility for other people (just nicely under top tax bracket) Maybe a week marking some exam papers 5 hrs a day = £3000 (teacher can easily squeeze this in to their weekly 8.30 - 3.30 timetable in May, June, July). The only caveat to all of this is - for those who have worked in the real world - make sure you get into a good, aspiring, high achieving school, with dedicated comitted staff, who put the interests of the pupils before job worthiness and self promotion and climbing the greasy pole. DB (p.s: Once again I am talking secondary schooling - primary is a totally different kettle of fish ) ...and another one. He's obviously been there and done it all. Edited January 16, 2009 by FedupTeddiBear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Daddy Bear Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) WTF are you talking about? No Management responsibilites of adult numpties - as opposed to the responsibility of educating students which is an obvious part of the job. DB Edited January 16, 2009 by Daddy Bear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Daddy Bear Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 ...and another one. He's obviously been there and done it all. OK I hold my hands up - I believe you - the govt. did not commit to paying off £20K of student loans - just £10k . All the other points I made are correct for a maths teacher - £12K training pro rata - used to be £6K for 9 months - now £9K for 9 months non taxable(Oct - Jun PGCE) £5K Taxable golden hello = £3500 Easy to get £3K free grant from a hardship fund at uni In May year 11 & 13 leave so easily possible to go from 20 hours teaching a week to less then 10 - obviously depends on your teaching classes - and fit in external marking commitments. So in total you would have to earn about £50K before tax & NI Anyway the point is teaching science or maths in an average UK secondary school is not all bad - if you think it's so hard and demanding why don't you just quit? DB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptherebels Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 No Management responsibilites of adult numpties - as opposed to the responsibility of educating students which is an obvious part of the job.DB I'll pass that on to my OH. On second thoughts, I'd better not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Daddy Bear Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I'll pass that on to my OH. On second thoughts, I'd better not Let me guess - she's (he) has taken on a HOD for an extra £6K a year or so - and her (his) life is hell. It's not worth it. Don't climb the pole - the pay structure after UPS3 is bonkers - not worth the hassle - better to stay without people management and if you need the cash make it up with moonlighting - e.g. marking, tutoring etc. I suppose it depends on subject/school and the individuals need to 'control' though. DB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptherebels Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Let me guess - she's (he) has taken on a HOD for an extra £6K a year or so - and her (his) life is hell.DB No such luck. She is primary school teaching. Earning around 24K I think. Loves the job (and the holidays !) but I can assure you, she does work hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest absolutezero Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 (edited) OK I hold my hands up - I believe you - the govt. did not commit to paying off £20K of student loans - just £10k .Temporarily. All the other points I made are correct for a maths teacher - £12K training pro rata - used to be £6K for 9 months - now £9K for 9 months non taxable(Oct - Jun PGCE) £5K Taxable golden hello = £3500 Easy to get £3K free grant from a hardship fund at uni In May year 11 & 13 leave so easily possible to go from 20 hours teaching a week to less then 10 - obviously depends on your teaching classes - and fit in external marking commitments. So in total you would have to earn about £50K before tax & NI I don't see where this figure comes from. They don't give you all this in one year. The loan was over 10 years - but only if you qalified between 2002 and (I think) 2004. Training salary is during the training year. The golden hello is after you complete your first year in a teaching job. Most teachers get an extra 3 hours of non-contact time once year 11 leave. Most teachers only have one year 11 class. Anyway the point is teaching science or maths in an average UK secondary school is not all bad - if you think it's so hard and demanding why don't you just quit? DB No, it's not a bad job at all. It is a hard and demanding job though. It's not the walk in the park that a lot of people seem to think it is. Also, you don't get money poured on you as shown above. £50k?! Yeah right! And your £37k is a joke. Not after 6 years. I'm in my 7th year and earn just over £30k p.a. Something like £30,036. I am being assessed for threshold so assuming I pass that I will get just over £32k. Pay point Value Years needed in post M1 £20627 1st M2 £22259 2nd M3 £24048 3rd M4 £25898 4th M5 £27939 5th M6 £30148 6th U points can only be gained by 'crossing the threshold' based on performance. U1 £32660 7th and 8th U2 £33870 9th and 10th U3 £35121 11th until leaving teaching More is available if you take on the role of head of department or somesuch. For head of a big dept (englsh, maths, science it's about £8000 a year extra. Not worth the hassle IMO.) The incentives to train are not all that great. They're welcome but not fantastic. Why not quit? A couple of reasons. It's not a bad job. They pay's not bad. It's a worthwhile job. I add something to society. I'm not making money for someone else. I do actually enjoy it but that's because my personality suits it. Some people are far too uptight and easily stressed. Teaching is not for that type of person. EDIT: The pay is fine if you teach in a decent school. They offer the same for working in a chav infested hole. I wouldn't do that for £80k a year! I value my sanity. Edited January 17, 2009 by absolutezero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Daddy Bear Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 No, it's not a bad job at all. It is a hard and demanding job though. It's not the walk in the park that a lot of people seem to think it is. Also, you don't get money poured on you as shown above. £50k?! Yeah right!And your £37k is a joke. Not after 6 years. I'm in my 7th year and earn just over £30k p.a. Something like £30,036. I am being assessed for threshold so assuming I pass that I will get just over £32k. Pay point Value Years needed in post M1 £20627 1st M2 £22259 2nd M3 £24048 3rd M4 £25898 4th M5 £27939 5th M6 £30148 6th U points can only be gained by 'crossing the threshold' based on performance. U1 £32660 7th and 8th U2 £33870 9th and 10th U3 £35121 11th until leaving teaching More is available if you take on the role of head of department or somesuch. For head of a big dept (englsh, maths, science it's about £8000 a year extra. Not worth the hassle IMO.) The incentives to train are not all that great. They're welcome but not fantastic. Why not quit? A couple of reasons. It's not a bad job. They pay's not bad. It's a worthwhile job. I add something to society. I'm not making money for someone else. I do actually enjoy it but that's because my personality suits it. Some people are far too uptight and easily stressed. Teaching is not for that type of person. EDIT: The pay is fine if you teach in a decent school. They offer the same for working in a chav infested hole. I wouldn't do that for £80k a year! I value my sanity. Well obviously it's different courses for different horses: - With a few years industry experience and good negotaition skill by a candidate the school wants - you can start on M3 - 2 years ahead on pay scale. (FACT) -After 4 years you will be on M6 (FACT) -Pick up Teaching and learning bonus for a reponsibilty that is not too demanding and preferably does not involve managing people to do tasks (as undoubtedly you will end up doing it all yourself as the majority of teachers will not do it if not in contract) + £2500 (FACT) - Finally after 6 years go to headteacher and say you are applying to other scholls and will be leaving - and then negotiate extra £2-3K as a recruitment and retention bonus. (FACT) Obviously there are a few caveats to all of this: You have to be a very desirable candidate - good experience and a great teacher of a shortage subject. Secondly after teaching in the school a few years you must make yourself invaluable, and preferably have the best results in the school, or at the very least the best added value for your GCSE & a'level groups. Anyway like life - teaching is what you make of it. Add to all of this - and I quote you: It's not a bad job. The pay's not bad. It's a worthwhile job. I add something to society. I'm not making money for someone else. I do actually enjoy it but that's because my personality suits it. Some people are far too uptight and easily stressed. Teaching is not for that type of person." It is a great job DB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest absolutezero Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Well obviously it's different courses for different horses:- With a few years industry experience and good negotaition skill by a candidate the school wants - you can start on M3 - 2 years ahead on pay scale. (FACT) -After 4 years you will be on M6 (FACT) -Pick up Teaching and learning bonus for a reponsibilty that is not too demanding and preferably does not involve managing people to do tasks (as undoubtedly you will end up doing it all yourself as the majority of teachers will not do it if not in contract) + £2500 (FACT) - Finally after 6 years go to headteacher and say you are applying to other scholls and will be leaving - and then negotiate extra £2-3K as a recruitment and retention bonus. (FACT) Obviously there are a few caveats to all of this: You have to be a very desirable candidate - good experience and a great teacher of a shortage subject. Secondly after teaching in the school a few years you must make yourself invaluable, and preferably have the best results in the school, or at the very least the best added value for your GCSE & a'level groups. Anyway like life - teaching is what you make of it. Add to all of this - and I quote you: It's not a bad job. The pay's not bad. It's a worthwhile job. I add something to society. I'm not making money for someone else. I do actually enjoy it but that's because my personality suits it. Some people are far too uptight and easily stressed. Teaching is not for that type of person." It is a great job DB The only problem with this is all too often the school don't want teachers who are more expensive. They go for the ones fresh out of college because they're cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichB Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Well obviously it's different courses for different horses:- With a few years industry experience and good negotaition skill by a candidate the school wants - you can start on M3 - 2 years ahead on pay scale. (FACT) -After 4 years you will be on M6 (FACT) -Pick up Teaching and learning bonus for a reponsibilty that is not too demanding and preferably does not involve managing people to do tasks (as undoubtedly you will end up doing it all yourself as the majority of teachers will not do it if not in contract) + £2500 (FACT) - Finally after 6 years go to headteacher and say you are applying to other scholls and will be leaving - and then negotiate extra £2-3K as a recruitment and retention bonus. (FACT) Obviously there are a few caveats to all of this: You have to be a very desirable candidate - good experience and a great teacher of a shortage subject. Secondly after teaching in the school a few years you must make yourself invaluable, and preferably have the best results in the school, or at the very least the best added value for your GCSE & a'level groups. DB But more than that you need to have learned how to negotiate a pay rise. Which most teachers don't seem to do, they get totally fixated on the 'fixed' scale they apathetically go and follow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displayed to non-members Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 We have brought our children up to be well-mannered and considerate and hopefully they are a pleasure to teach As a teacher, this amused me greatly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichB Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 shame you cant smack em about anymore eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest absolutezero Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 But more than that you need to have learned how to negotiate a pay rise. Which most teachers don't seem to do, they get totally fixated on the 'fixed' scale they apathetically go and follow it. Teachers tend to be conformists, do as they are told and don't question things. Despite being one I'm not a fan of teachers in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Daddy Bear Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Teachers tend to be conformists, do as they are told and don't question things.Despite being one I'm not a fan of teachers in general. Teachers are a strange breed are'nt they? (generalisation of course - obviously some exceptions) Where up North do you teach AZ? DB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest absolutezero Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Teachers are a strange breed are'nt they? (generalisation of course - obviously some exceptions)Where up North do you teach AZ? DB Not going to say too much. Internet nutters. You get the idea. Let's just say a large ex-industrial town in the North West. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExecutiveSlaveBox Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Someone we know well and trust is a Teacher in Kent. She recently told the missus that there were lots of city types looking to re-train as teachers, looking for a safe-haven I guess, but teaching though? "safe-haven"? I've known a few teachers from back at uni and I only know of one whos still teaching now almost 10 years later. I think the problem is you really have to want to do it, it's not just another job. A stint in Iraq would be safer than one or two of the schools I can think of. These bankers get some funny ideas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImA20SomethingGetMeOutOfHere Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Well obviously it's different courses for different horses:- With a few years industry experience and good negotaition skill by a candidate the school wants - you can start on M3 - 2 years ahead on pay scale. (FACT) -After 4 years you will be on M6 (FACT) -Pick up Teaching and learning bonus for a reponsibilty that is not too demanding and preferably does not involve managing people to do tasks (as undoubtedly you will end up doing it all yourself as the majority of teachers will not do it if not in contract) + £2500 (FACT) - Finally after 6 years go to headteacher and say you are applying to other scholls and will be leaving - and then negotiate extra £2-3K as a recruitment and retention bonus. (FACT) Like hell you can. It always makes me laugh when I see somebody who is thinking about training to be a teacher who thinks that they should be a head of department straight away because they were a team leader in their last job. I've got a masters' degree and 4 years' commercial experience in IT. At my first school there was an NQT who was a PhD chemist. Guess what? Neither of us got a penny more. TLR bonuses are doled out fairly readily in many schools, but they do bring extra work. £2,500 for being head of physics, say, doesn't sound too bad but you'll be responsible for sorting out proper schemes of work for key stage 3 to A level, liasing with the SEN department to help identify how your subject is complying with the school's literacy and numeracy strategy, working on intervention strategies for C/D borderline pupils, making sure exam entries are all correct for the latest round of GCSE modules, explaining to the head of department why pupils underperformed in physics for the last 3 years and what we're going to do about it and pretty much anything else the head of department deems important. Simillarly, 6 years to become a head is wildly optimistic. There is something called "fast track" which is designed to get people up to management grade as quickly as possible. 6 years though is nowhere near enough to learn enough to become a decent head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest absolutezero Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Well obviously it's different courses for different horses:- With a few years industry experience and good negotaition skill by a candidate the school wants - you can start on M3 - 2 years ahead on pay scale. (FACT) -After 4 years you will be on M6 (FACT) -Pick up Teaching and learning bonus for a reponsibilty that is not too demanding and preferably does not involve managing people to do tasks (as undoubtedly you will end up doing it all yourself as the majority of teachers will not do it if not in contract) + £2500 (FACT) - Finally after 6 years go to headteacher and say you are applying to other scholls and will be leaving - and then negotiate extra £2-3K as a recruitment and retention bonus. (FACT) I think you'll find after they've stopped laughing, most heads would say "Good luck with your applications. We'll give you all the help and advice you need." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Deflation Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 What a load of bokum.Teachers? 15 weeks holiday a year. School Day 0840 - 1530 (1500 in alot of schools) - 6 hours actual work. An average of one free period a day - so bring that down to 5 hours! No shift work, guaranteed holidays known 18 months in advance. No real boss apart form the Kids. Gold plated inflation proof pension scheme. After 6 years you can easily be on £37K a year perks - such as free lunches, free holidays skiing etc 100% job security etc etc etc....... Admittedly it could be a nightmare in a school with a poor behaviour policy, (or if you did not like working with young people !! - ) ...... but come on - there really is no easier job. If there is tell me! DB You're having a laugh! Teachers have gold-plated pensions because the stress of the job generally kills them before retirement age! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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