Melmoth the Wanderer

Off topic, but have you noticed a theme running through the icons in this thread? I note Mr Blek, backtoparents, shakerbaby, and GCS15. Am I sharing this board with a bunch of overgrown schoolboys?

thanks beenhearingthis, we cross posted. Glad I'm not the only one thinking this way. I know the crash is coming, 30-40% forseeable, but I don't have the luxury of waiting another 6 years as it plays out. I'm not brilliant at saving - the money we have is almost all from equity gained on the back of house rises - and I guess buying now with that size deposit will be some sort of cushion. I just don't like the thought of a big debt in a low inflation environment. I think it will be a stagnation unless there is some sort of stupendous shock. The reason I say this is because of the frankly irresponsible deals I have been offered - interest only, 4 or 5 times salary, and this from "respectable" lenders. Self certification and IO are what has kept this thing going, and as long as you can hold on to a job then perhaps this could go on indefinitely.

"I sympathise with your plight - I guess it depends on how badly you want to be an OO rather than rent and how much you believe a HPC will occur. Do you have a deposit? Are you prepared to see that eroded by any falls? Is the comfort and security offered by being an OO going to outweigh the capital you will lose in the event of a crash?" Have over £100k deposit and are thinking of buying at 250k. I am a high earner so 150k mortgage is not over 3x salary, but it is still a big ask on a <20year mortgage. Ask anyone, 150 is a lot of money. A HPC is a definite, in my opinion. Most of the deposit came from house price rises over the past 6 years, and I am keenly aware that I may well end up back where I started, only older and with a crap pension. The security angle? As far as I can make out the security comes in when you are old and can't work any more, its to make sure you have somewhere to live then. Don't like the anxiety of possibly being given 2 months notice to quit in a rental (child at primary school nearby so need to stay in area). Also don't like the anxiety of not having prepared for old age. This is a bit off topic I suppose, - I am very careful who I talk to about HPC as some people find the whole thing very upsetting. I have shared with renters I know, but have definitely steered clear of recent purchasers (of whom I may be one shortly). One colleague has just moved, could not sell his own property (I say therefore overpriced), could not get anyone to rent (ditto - it is quite nice so must be the price) and is now in the position of paying off over £2k per month on two houses. No pressure, eh?

We sold to rent Aug 04. The market was insane, ridiculous, and could not go on. Things have stagnated, or slowly gone up. They have gone on. Why? Last week we looked at a place to buy. Very nice. I got some mortgage quotes. I can get a 10 year fixed rate mortgage of 4.99% or 5.05% or thereabouts, and it is quite affordable, despite the fact that this property is being sold for £100k more than 5 years ago. And that is why there is no crash. People can still make the monthly payments. Interest only, 25 year deals (renting off the bank) are still cheaper than renting off a landlord. I'm the wrong side of 40 now and only have a few more years to make the payments before I am knackered and need my own place where I can survive on a tiny pension (which I am sure will be robbed from me by our friends in govt). What to do? Buy at the peak of the biggest asset bubble ever or end up having to pay market rate rent after I retire? Its ok to wait and see if you are young and in your twenties. Not if you are getting on a bit. One of my colleagues is 57 and has another 7 years to go on his mortgage. He's not very good at his job due to the knackered factor, but also does not want to be homeless. Not a good position to be in, and not something I want to be doing at his age. Your thoughts on this are welcome.

Yet another stupid comment about public sector workers. I have worked in public, private, and charitable sectors and your fantasy about lazy public sector workers is just that - it only exists in your head. Grow up. Or better still express these views next time you want assistance from an ambulance worker, doctor, police officer, social worker, or your kids need teaching, or the lights in your street need fixing, or whatever.

Watchdog confirms probe into property company By Jim Pickard,Property Correspondent Published: October 29 2005 03:00 | Last updated: October 29 2005 03:00 The Office of Fair Trading has confirmed that it is examining complaints about the largest residential property investment group in the UK. Inside Track holds free seminars and more detailed two-day seminars costing £2,500 offering advice. Attendees are then invited to become members of Instant Access Properties, a sister company, for a further £6,000 and a monthly subscription charge in return for access to discounts on new property. The group behind both companies issued a statement this week denying a report in The Observer newspaper which had claimed that there was an "investigation" into its activities. It said it was taking legal action against The Observer because of "false" and "grossly misleading" reporting. It was wrong to portray the OFT's position as an "investigation" when the body was merely taking a preliminary look at complaints, said Tony McKay, chief operating officer of both companies. "There is a difference between an investigation and considering one," he said. "They are certainly not investigating us . . . they did not contact us prior to the Observer running the article." The company said it had been "assured categorically" by the OFT that there was no such inquiry. But the OFT has told the Financial Times it has been looking at more than one complaint by the public about the group. "Essentially, we are aware of complaints about these companies and examining these complaints," said the consumer watchdog. Last weekend's Observer article carried details of grievances from three disgruntled customers. Instant Access Properties said these were one-sided and unfair. The OFT refused to say whether or not these complaints were the ones it was looking at. Mr McKay said Instant Access did not know what the OFT's activities related to: "We have been trying to find out from the OFT what the issues are on the table, did they relate to marketing or property transactions?" he said. Property investment clubs have been under the spotlight in recent months for their frequent claims to have made "millionaires" of investors. Many, including Inside Track, have encouraged people to build up huge property portfolios despite questions over the future direction of house prices. The Department of Trade and Industry has closed several such groups this year. Inside Track, which has more than 5,000 members, has itself called for the government to regulate the industry through the Financial Services Authority, the City watchdog. The group claims to be responsible for nearly one in 10 acquisitions of new flats in the UK.

Friend has a two bed flat in Islington for sale at £300k initially over a year ago, dropped it to £275k and it has sold for £250k.

We were living in Whitton, which is about the same distance away from Heathrow (3 to 4 miles ish) but to the West rather than the East. We lived there three years but the noise got unbearable and we moved. Flights start at 5.30 and go on sometimes past 11 at night. Sometimes the house shook - fully laiden 747s off to US or Aus are very heavy and it takes a lot of effort for them to get off the ground. The air on a clear morning day sometimes stank of aviation fuel. We had a beautiful house but the minute we heard about the new runway we decided to move. The fact is that every proposed expansion of Heathrow has happened, they bully the local authorities and even the govt to get their way. There will be more flights - the new runway is for smaller aircraft but that means you wont get a rest between the 747s, going over every 2 minutes for up to 20 hours a day. Sometimes it was crazy late at night as they had to get the planes up before 11.00 so there would be incessant waves for up to 40 minutes. Plus they have flights all night sometimes. The worst was hot summer evenings as people are going on holiday so lots of flights, but you can't open your windows because the noise is unbearable. I cheered the day concorde stopped. It made my baby daughter cry every time it went over and it set off car alarms in the street - and we are miles from the airport, not next to it. I will never live near an airport again. As for house prices - I'm not the only one who thinks that way, it is bound to have a depressing effect, though as a big employer there will be plenty of jobs therefore the economy will be up therefore it might cancel out.

Pizza delivery? I'd say very unsafe. Eating out/takeaways are not compulsory, you can always cook for yourself (and it will taste better as well as being cheaper). Stick to frontline public sector work and you will be ok - as the post above said copper teacher nurse doctor etc. In fact in some areas due to the age profile of professions there are some great career opportunities for younger people - eg teaching - loads will be retiring over the next decade. The Times Ed advertised 6000 teaching/related posts last week.

It said increase in properties coming off the market - not sold. I am keeping a close eye on movements in my area and I am aware of vendors taking properties off the market as there is no interest in them - so no sale. This does not mean there is an increase in demand as the article implies.

Realised last summer. Sold our house as we were having difficulties with the mortgage, or could see difficulties on the horizon anyway. Pulled out of the house we were going to buy and STR'ed. It is still on the market (9 months later) at £20k less than we offered, no takers. nethouseprice was discovered in the summer and that house is still on at £30k more than any other house in that street has ever sold for. Thank goodness my partner found this site, we have saved thousands already. When I can afford a nice average house (as I am on a nice average salary) then we will buy. One nice thing about renting is not worrying about repairs - boiler blew and it was replaced next day by landlord! When I did that in my own property it cost £2K! One lesson learnt was get on with your estate agent (counter-intuitive I know). My partner was very pally with her and as we were selling she confided that all the signals were bad and we should think carefully about buying unless we had to.

OK, I admit I smiled. But the bottom line is trolling is poor, and not OK. I appreciate that people are hacked off with the whole houseprice situation, but that doesn't mean it is okay to trash other people. Find something better to do, please, otherwise you lose respect for the other sound postings that have been made.

The fact that there is now major price transparency will have an inhibiting effect on price ramping and inflation. That house viewer was an idiot, though. If you are negotiating a discount it doesn't work to trash like that, people withdraw from the negotiation, as the house vendor did. End result was no transaction, so what was the point of wasting people's time?

In my time I have bought and sold 3 houses. Sold up in the summer of 04. Now renting and keeping a gimlet eye on the market. Ready to buy if the right property at the right price emerges. So I feel qualified to comment. The most significant factor that was not here during the last crash is the ease of information flow - internet and land registry prices. Last crash I was barely aware it was happening as there was a constant barrage of "now is a good time to buy don't miss the boat" stuff. Now you get more balanced comments and hard facts from LR.

Whilst in agreement with Sledgehead, it does look a bit trollish. These poor people are having the scales removed from their eyes - there is no need to jeer at them. It is a bad enough shock for people when they realise their dreams are built on sand - I think being overly combative doesn't always win the argument as people just switch off - the debate on that board now is "Is Sledgehead a troll" rather than "House prices are dropping so we need to be realistic"

And altering people's names so it reads something insulting/obscene reminds me of playground bullies. If you argue the issues thats good, anything else is just crass.

I have been lurking on this site for several months. This site has got noticeably worse in the past couple of weeks. Swearing does not impress. I heard them words before, no need to refresh my memory. You just look boorish and the conclusion is the swearer is someone who has lost it. Personal insults do not add to the sum of human knowledge. There are lots of other boards I could go to for that, they get boring after a while. If someone does not agree with you it is not necessarily because they are a troll, vested interest, or maniac. Perhaps they just want to debate a difficult and important subject. But that is not easy to do when you get insults, swearing, etc. The "static" drowns out the good points from both sides. Dogbox, Kotc, ttrtr, dr bubb, others on both sides all have said interesting things. If you respect those you disagree with perhaps you can sharpen your arguments, otherwise you just force people who don't agree with you off the board, and then you end up having a conversation with yourself. And you don't need the internet for that. If people don't get back to reasoned debate this board will die as there will be no reason to visit it.

We sold our house on the 31st July last year and have been renting since. We had put an offer in (at asking price) of a house but the vendors were dragging their feet so we STR'd so the chain would not collapse, and pulled out of the purchase. The estate agent told us there was another couple interested at asking price - usual EA bull - but we said did not want to proceed. He said make a reduced offer if that is what you need to do - and we offered £20k below knowing they would say no. They did say no. Property has now been on sale at £20k below for past 6 months, and has not shifted. Moral of the story: EAs tell barefaced lies to get the deal. (i.e.There is always another couple interested in the property.) Ignore them. Property is only worth what someone will pay for it. We are in a bear market, prices are edging down by most measures. Ignore the chaff these people are putting out, they know markets are about fear (of losing) and greed (maximise gain). They want you to feel fear. But it is a buyer's market. EAs still win as long as they get the deal, hence the comments on the Rightmove analysis that vendors need to be more realistic. The last thing EAs want is a dead market, as long as stock moves they get their commission, that is the important thing for them. 20% under sounds v reasonable. Leave it on the table and see what happens. There is always another house to buy.

Mrs Wanderer and I were watching the programme. She said "I bet the usual suspects on HPC will go bonkers after this one - they always do - and have they badly spliced in the bit about buyers market" 300k for a semi on the outskirts of Bracknell (i.e. Binfield) - puleeze! Baron and Fred remarkably calm considering the (self inflicted and therefore masochistic) goading they get from LLL...

The figures are not perfect, don't pick every sale up. Did a search on the house we bought in 2001 and sold in 2004 and IT ISNT THERE - but next door's 2004 sale is.

Really interesting articles. Thank you.

Now is always the best time - as any buy/sell activity generates commission, fees, disbursements, charges, and considerations for our VI - he most certainly isn't stupid, but if you are taken in by this chaff then you are.