Dear Oh Dear... Annecdotal Over At The Stinky Pig...

[mbga9pgf]

found this little Gem over at the pig... I think from reading this a lot of them have been in denial, that its all about to get very very nasty, I think they know it too... Anyways, here is today's bear food fresh from the loins of the stinking pig....

#

Great idea Carl as I'm sure there are many of us struggling and fearful with what is currently happening even if they aren't saying it publicly

I have read this forum since Clottie was making her first posts. I have periodicly come back to catch up and in the mean time have gone off and done my own thing and built a portfolio of 32 properties over several years. I have friends who have done the same thing and we probably have about 207 properties between us mostly all with tenants in them and none of us bought off-plan or bought any new-builds.

I fully intend(ed?) to create a pension through my property acquisitions. I have lovingly refurbished, added value, remortgaged, used M/ex bridge/mortgage to help me along on some of them and I am leveraged to 85% (some are at 90%)

I make very little money after inevitable maintenance, boiler repairs, letting agent fees, gas safeties etc but have been ticking along nicely building my dreams for the future.

I now find myself waking up each morning sick with fear and with a sinking feeling in my stomach that is difficult to keep at bay. I have capital stuck in a property that I bought outright and have just had my mortgage offer withdrawn along with several others that I was hoping to remortgage to support my cash-flow. I don’t know why they have been withdrawn yet as so far I have no missed payments. (I am actively seeking an alternative lender)

I don’t want anyone’s sympathy as I have made my own decisions and will have to live with them come what may. (Nor do I want a host of BMVers offering to buy my portfolio for 60 -70% BMV, as I’m sure you will appreciate it won’t help) Neither do I understand the public perception of “greedy buy-to-let landlords” buying up all the first time buyer property and making their fortunes (??) Neither do I understand the government/lender perception of fly-by-night land-lords. Neither do I understand the apparent “glee” of some who are positively foaming at the mouth at the thought of all the repossessions that are becoming more and more imminent daily…?? Not just for residential customers but for buy to let investors too.

My friends and I are ordinary people with families of our own to support. I am actually sick with fear also that I may soon have to tell my children that I have lost our own house too, that despite all of the hard work and effort that I’ve put into our business that I have now hit a dead-end. That I’m sorry for all the nights they had to make do with beans on toast and I’m sorry for all the times I didn’t help with their homework as I was too exhausted getting a property ready for a new tenant. The thought of telling them I failed when I actively encourage them to dream big dreams for themselves is killing me inside.

The reason for my sickening fear is that when my portfolio starts to come off its fixed rates that I will be facing much higher and possibly unmanageable mortgage costs than I face at the moment. My tenants will be unable to absorb that cost and even if they could many of them are mid-contract.

Its all very well people taking the moral high ground and saying well we warned you that you should only be leveraged at 70% - here come on my course and we’ll show you how you SHOULD have done it. That’s not going to help the many ordinary people who have invested in 1, 2, 10, 30, 50 properties over the course of the last 2, 3 or 4 years whilst the lenders have been happy to lend and many smaller niche lenders had great products for us

If me and my friends are in danger of losing 207 properties and also our own homes then that’s another 207 tenants/families who are also about to lose theirs too. And I know that we aren’t the only ones.

You see Mr Lender, Mr Government, Mr Banker, most of us have seen what you are doing to our pension prospects, to our savings and investments and we’ve seen whats happening to our elderly and we decided that we didn’t want that for ourselves. We decided to use property as our own pensions and our own futures and you have been more than happy to lend to us on that basis. Many of us have 5 year plans, 10 year plans, 25 year plans, inheritance plans but by changing your own rules at such short notice and with no warnings you re making law-breakers out of most of us and making a mockery of our own planning.

How many of us are truthfully rich enough to remortgage to 70% or 75% when we are geared at 85% and 90%...?? How many of us are truthfully worried about going onto SVR..??

If the government, lenders, banks, investors don’t start working together very very soon and I mean SOON – like right NOW - then there is going to be the most catastrophic housing crisis this country has ever witnessed. Its already well underway with the astonishing collapse of the big new home builders. Councils won’t be able to cope, housing associations won’t be able to cope, the benefits system won’t be able to cope, with the influx of the newly homeless.

What I think is needed Carl is for someone in authority to put the case of the average buy-to-let investor forward to the lenders and tell them that when we come off our fixed rates then surely the short term answer is to allow us to continue on the same rate rather than having to suffer the diabolical SVR they will be forcing us on to…?? After all most of us have managed to keep up our payments so far

I’m sure most of us could manage then to tick over until the situation improves, or until a pro-active lender who understands can be sought out to throw us a life-line.

The alternative in my eyes is impending disaster for the UK housing market and all associated businesses.

The way we are being treated is nothing short of criminal itself.

So come on Carl, come on everyone lets come up with a way to fight back! We haven't come this far for nothing

Well, maybe, just maybe you dumb bint, if you hadnt of got greedy, bet your childrens future on your pension, and hadnt priced out 32 other families by purchasing BTL with someone elses money, we, you, this nation wouldnt be in this godawful mess; Its posts like this that really grip me; if anyone else feels the urge to get over there and stick it to D*ckheads like this, D*ckheads that have caused my wife and I to put having kids on hold for a number of years now, stolen the opportunities they had as a result of greed, go do it.

Edited June 22, 2008 by mbga9pgf

[mrcutegurlzz]

oh oh oh - can i be the first one with a lol??!!!

must say, she makes it quite clear that she doesn't understand alot.

[wonderpup]

It's weird how posts like this mirror the attitudes of the banks that spawned the mess. One minute it's " Get out of my way- I'm an investor!" and then when it all goes bad it's " The government should do something!"- like some bizzare fractal, where the smallest piece mirrors the structure of the whole.

Ok, I can empathise with the predicament- but simply can't ignore the underlaying greed that created it. BTL was predicated on a ready supply of priced out people to be the tenants- this was implicit in the model- so there was a degree of calculated exploitation built into the thing, which is why I find it so objectionable.

[bazzzzzzz]

Nice find.

[right_freds_dead]

if the government 'did something' to help btl using my taxes i would seriously STOP PAYING them.

[salamander]

Linky

Edit: Small oops - link is to the quoted post. There's a "View Complete Thread" button at the bottom

Edited June 22, 2008 by narrowescape

[mbga9pgf]

Linky

#Cheers.

You are right on the tax count my freind. They really didnt realise when they signed (32 times) on the dotted line what they were letting themselves in for...

I suppose there is solace in the saying "if you owe the bank 50 punds and cannot pay, that is your problem. Owe them a million, it is theirs". I really think we are about to see Credit Crunch Phase 2 UK, the phase that takes out all the weak banks as BTLers go bust in droves. I reckon a good 30%+ are in doo-do....

I dont take pleasure in the above, its just that when you have been cheated out of something, idiots like this really make my blood boil... The way its phrased as if to say "OK, i messed up, surely its going to be ok????"

Un-F*cking-believable.

[ruisort7]

I like how she phrases it, as if all she and her honest comrades are trying to do is put beans on some toast for their kids in between decking out palaces for the deserving poor. Actually love, you were trying to get stinking rich and it didn't work out for you. That's life, deal with it. I guess you could always become an arms dealer.

[CviewUK]

Who posted this?

Make yourself bankrupt? emigrate? get yourself a decent solicitor before you sign the contract next time and don't get overtaken by greed

[Concrete Jungle]

Economic Darwinism to sweep singing pig in the next 6 months!!

[Tony2007]

Oh dear, oh dear. This forum newbie sounds as if he has just crawled out from under a stone.

http://www.singingpig.co.uk/forums/thread/518774.aspx

I do hope he is referring to some kind of virtual property portfolio.

[applesauce]

Personally I think there's nothing wrong with what some of you are calling 'greed'. I call it ambition. People who create wealth by starting businesses and creating employment you could also claim are greedy, but for those of you in the employ of a company it is due to people like this that you have a job.

However I agree with the sentiments regarding the singing pig poster. That person needs to accept responsibility for their own actions, they need to have thought about what they were doing and considered some reasonable 'what ifs' and built them into their plan. They haven't done this, and because of THEM their futures and those of their families are not looking good. And again because of THEM their tenants are likely to have their lives disrupted a bit. YOU took the risks YOU TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for the consequences of doing it badly.

You screwed up singing pigger, accept it and stop crying foul, it's all of your making - I empathise with your original motives but you screwd up you and your families future, you weren't the first and you won't be the last.

More than ever for us renters it pays to research who owns the property you are considering renting. Id start with a check on when it was last purchased, and only rent one that was purchased a good few years ago before the likes of that singing pig clown got in on the landlord game.

[narco]

Right... So instead of saving or investing wisely for a pension, she decides to take on millions of pounds worth of high risk liabilities.

People like this should be imprisoned for this kind of thing. Seriously.

[juvenal]

This isn't someone who just wanted a pension fund for their old age. It's someone who wanted thirty two paid-for properties to cash in way down the line. £7 million? £10 million?. Or thirty two lots of rent, on paid-for properties - £150,000 pa - plus asset appreciation.

How much does one person want?

Just another greedy gambler, who never knew when to stop.

[Radge]

People like this should be imprisoned for this kind of thing. Seriously.

And have me pay for her to get 3 squares a day and a roof over her head? No thanks! I'd far rather see her slurping superlager and living out of an assortment of Tesco bags.

[_w_]

Oh dear, oh dear. This forum newbie sounds as if he has just crawled out from under a stone.

http://www.singingpig.co.uk/forums/thread/518774.aspx

I do hope he is referring to some kind of virtual property portfolio.

Good Morning Franco, I can possibly assit you in building your dream portfolio please contact me on 01142 567 407.

Many thanks. Kris Allen

Already someone trying to offload their own 'portfolio' to this schmuck

Not that he'll ever get a mortgage.

[Guest Steve Cook]

found this little Gem over at the pig... I think from reading this a lot of them have been in denial, that its all about to get very very nasty, I think they know it too... Anyways, here is today's bear food fresh from the loins of the stinking pig....

#

Well, maybe, just maybe you dumb bint, if you hadnt of got greedy, bet your childrens future on your pension, and hadnt priced out 32 other families by purchasing BTL with someone elses money, we, you, this nation wouldnt be in this godawful mess; Its posts like this that really grip me; if anyone else feels the urge to get over there and stick it to D*ckheads like this, D*ckheads that have caused my wife and I to put having kids on hold for a number of years now, stolen the opportunities they had as a result of greed, go do it.

Get a grip. This "dumb bint" is just an ordinary prole just like you and me. They've f*cked up and they are going down. That much is certain. However, they joined the "party" just like anyone else because to have not done so meant they were disadvantaged. The party is over now. They are the ones left holding the poison.

If you are going to blame anyone, blame the central banks who held base rates at suicidally low levels, forcing credit down the throats of instiutional lendors who then forced it down the throats of joe public. Maybe you were too smart to get sucked into all that. Maybe you couldn't get sucked into it because your income levels meant you couldn't obtain the leverage. Maybe you were lucky. I don't know.

Your day has come, as has mine. Leave it at that.

Edited June 22, 2008 by Steve Cook

[Guest Bart of Darkness]

done my own thing and built a portfolio of 32 properties over several years. I have friends who have done the same thing and we probably have about 207 properties between us mostly all with tenants in them and none of us bought off-plan or bought any new-builds.

Normally BTL doesn't quite "press my buttons" as it does with so many other on here. However, their contribution to the mega-bubble of the last 10 years is clear for all to see.

It's going to be tough for a lot of people love, take a number if you want sympathy.

[mbga9pgf]

Get a grip. This "dumb bint" is just an ordinary prole just like you and me. They've f*cked up and they are going down. That much is certain. However, they joined the "party" just like anyone else because to have not done so meant they were disadvantaged. The party is over now. They are the ones left holding the poison.

If you are going to blame anyone, blame the central banks who held base rates at suicidally low levels, forcing credit down the throats of instiutional lendors who then forced it down the throats of joe public. Maybe you were too smart to get sucked into all that. Maybe you couldn't get sucked into it because your income levels meant you couldn't obtain the leverage. Maybe you were lucky. I don't know.

Your day has come, as has mine. Leave it at that.

Cr*p I am afraid to reply. Fact is, she chose to go down that path. If she was building a tidy nest-egg, why buy 32 properties? surely 2 would have done?

I know the type, the sort that had to have the designer gear, the type that has to go to all the trendy places, be seen out, be a socialite. Probably watched too much sex in the city. She didnt want a retirement, she wanted to be lazy, and like dolites I equally despise, wanted a free ride. Well, she is about to learn the 2 most important lesson in life, if you want something, work for it. The other is, there is no such thing as a free lunch... Buying 32 properties, organising the finance and throwing up a lick of paint is not working. Its delluding yourself into bankrupcy.

As I have said, I am not gloating. At the same time, I dont blame the banks either. I do not subscribe to the socialist ideal that we should be wrapped in cotton wool and molycoddled by the state; to the same end, I also believe it is morally reprehensible for individuals to go to such excess then go begging on an internet forum as what to do when its all gone pete tong. As for excusing her for being naieve, if I was told I was naieve, I would make blinkin sure before I lent an estimated 5.4 MILLION pounds that I was doing the right thing; thats not speculation, that a bad gambling habit.

[MongerOfDoom]

if the government 'did something' to help btl using my taxes i would seriously STOP PAYING them.

Don't you read the news? Or is it that you think the NR rescue or the UKP5e10 facility for the banks don't benefit BTLetters?

[narco]

These idiots seem to have no perception of the impact of negative equity, no concept of higher interest rates, no understanding of demographics.

I've been reading that forum and these people have absolutely no game plan with these BTL properties. They might consider selling in 2015 or maybe 2033. lol

[TeddyBear]

looking around there led me to this thread http://www.singingpig.co.uk/forums/thread/444292.aspx

seems that housing benefit is going up in some areas under the new LHA benefit. This will mean that landords can easily put up rents with new tenancies. Is this the government conspiring to make sure that rents do go up? Or just a way to get poorer people into more expensive areas?

[mbga9pgf]

looking around there led me to this thread http://www.singingpig.co.uk/forums/thread/444292.aspx

seems that housing benefit is going up in some areas under the new LHA benefit. This will mean that landords can easily put up rents with new tenancies. Is this the government conspiring to make sure that rents do go up? Or just a way to get poorer people into more expensive areas?

Just wait until Unemployment/Bankrupcies soar.... theyll go back down again, uless the government wants to double its deficit.

[Wimbledon88]

Reading the original posting, I could not help thinking when I read it - how did primitive society look upon those who tried to encroach on others' living space (caves?) and how would they have reacted?

[Mr Yogi]

These BTLers like to think of themselves as businesses. This woman refers to her 'business' in her post.

Well, 80% of UK businesses fail within their first 5 years.

Why is she surpised that the BTL business is any different?

I'm sure that many of us on here have had businesses that have gone bust. I have. The worst it means is that you may lose your house, have to move into rented accomodation, and get a job.

So bleedin' what?

No-one died, your kids are still there. Plenty of people live quite happily this way. Welcome to the real world!

People like this woman make me sick.

By all means start a business; buy a few houses on borrowed money and rent them out. But if and when it goes tits up at least have the good grace to admit that you got things wrong!

Another thing;

She bleats on about her tenants being victims too and becoming homeless. She speaks as if 'her' properties will be wiped from the map.

No they won't. They will still be there, available to buy or to rent. The net supply of homes will not be affected.

The only ones affected will be her and her family. Due solely to her failure as a businesswoman.

Get over it!

Edited June 23, 2008 by Mr Yogi