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Extradry Martini

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  1. This is what I mean - uninformed vagaries around sovereignty. Nothing concrete at all. Ok, so "Lack of honesty". Who told you that the EU was moving to be a single state? The Daily Mail? The Express? No one in the EU institutions, that's for sure. One of the very many absurd things that Brexiters believe is that the UK was the only EU state that cared about sovereignty. You do know that the reason why the European debt crisis took so long to solve was because no states wanted to give up sovereignty, right? (It was eventually solved without that needing to happen). And even if that were the case, what makes you think we would have to be part of that single state? We had already opted out of large parts of the Treaty. And even if somehow we were supposed to be part of that single state, why not just leave then? So you and all of the others voted to leave the EU because the EU "might" be moving towards becoming a single state and because if that happened the UK "might" have to be part of it and "might" not be able to leave at that point. We are nearly a quarter poorer than we otherwise would have been. And all because Brexiters were scared of one false scenario fabricated in their heads.
  2. Ok, so I have been asking Brexiters to name one benefit we might enjoy by being outside of the EU. Predictably (I have been asking it for years), none were put forward (here or on Twitter - @extradry_martin). But here is one for you HPC Brexiters: House prices will almost certainly fall, or be lower than they would otherwise be, as a result of Brexit. The question is whether one thinks that the country being around 25% poorer than it otherwise would be is worth that happening.
  3. Nice, lucky you. I lived and worked in Madrid for a long time. Would not be able to do that now. Brexit is the first time that the people of the UK have had their rights taken away from them on a permanent basis since at least the 19th century.
  4. Interesting. I can, and do, forgive. At least those who didn't know better when they voted for it. Forget, no - it was and is a monumental act of self harm for a country to impose on itself.
  5. Still in the denial phase then. 23% worse off than we would have been otherwise. That is a complete disaster.
  6. Actually, all the Brexiters I know are angry and a little paranoid. Much angrier than remainers - will lash out at anyone who criticises the referendum result. Normally end up saying "that's democracy" or "get over it". The problem is that they are not over it at all. I am no psychologist, but I suspect with a lot of them they feel they need to continue defending something which deep down they know was a massive mistake. It is the Kubler-Ross five stages of grief. They did denial about what a stupid idea Brexit is before and after the referendum, now they are in the anger phase. Next up is "bargaining" - perhaps something like "well it could have been worse". After that it is depression then acceptance. Once we get that final stage, of everyone accepting that Brexit was a completely moronic idea and a total disaster, we can do the sensible thing and join the SM & CU again.
  7. No, think of the time of the 2012 Olympics, less than 10 years ago. The UK was confident and outward-looking. Now it is a snivelling coward, hiding in the dark lying and making baseless accusations, refusing to co-operate with any EU initiative at all. To its own detriment and shame.
  8. Our economy smaller than it would be nearly 25% and that is what you say. You know that this has affected real people, right? There are tens of thousands of people who have lost their jobs, and thousands of businesses are under huge pressure because of Brexit. How about being a little more mature?
  9. What "problems"? In precise and concrete terms, please. (I won't hold my breath - I have been waiting more than five years for anyone to tell me how the EU was oppressing them). You know that we had the best of all worlds, right? Opt outs from the euro, Schengen etc and we part of the world's largest free trade area, one with absolutely no restrictions. And there was not a single EU law or regulation put in place that the sovereign UK objected to. When there were problems with up-coming legislation, we objected to it and it was changed, abandoned or we were given an opt out.
  10. Aside from saying that we should stay out of the euro, I can't remember him saying anything intelligent. What did he say? (and no, I am not going to read those links - if you have an argument to make, make it here).
  11. No, think about what the other poster said and look at the entirety of your response. There is a reason why we talk about things as percentages of GDP.
  12. Do you want to re-think that question. It looks like a very stupid thing to say. And I'm sure you're not stupid, so...
  13. You're right, we can't say with absolute certainty what is going to happen in advance. We were not absolutely certain. We just had a very, very high level of conviction over how it would work out. And we were right, for the reasons we laid out, in advance. But so many people, like you refuse to accept what is staring you in the face. I have shown you what has happened and why, yet you still don't believe it. I could explain to you how the earth is a globe and revolves around the sun, but you could simply deny it and say that it was a flat plane held up by an elephant's back. You might then ask me to prove that "there be not monsters" over the edge of the sea. None of this would make you right because it would be patent nonsense, as is any conclusion over Brexit other than it having been a complete, unadulterated, disaster.
  14. Daniel Hannan has achieved the incredible feat of getting every single prediction he has ever made wrong. He has beaten randomness hands down. And of course, been ennobled for it. Complete joke of a politician.
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