"new" Tax On Empty Commericial Property-

[Guest KingCharles1st]

This is just truly amazing legislation from the Government. Basically since April 1st, Landlords now have to pay the rates on business properties that are empty.

On the little estate where my unit is, I would say half of them are empty, and the Landlord is having to pay rates on ALL OF THEM now...

Does this strike anyone as unfair- or is it just me? Surely this is going to push the Landlord to ask for more rent from the people who are already there? Essentially putting the idea of ever making a profit out of some peoples heads. Or more likely to make them give up altogether- they- guess what- there's one less, the spiral continues... Thanks GB. twit

Have a gander

Edited July 8, 2008 by KingCharles1st

[pandabear]

Nope, its an opportunity to request a reduction in your rent. Something along the lines of

"If i leave, just think of all the extra business rates you will have to pay!!"

[Mr Yogi]

You're looking at it the wrong way.

If the landlord has to pay rates on an empty property it encourages him to reduce the rent he is asking in order to let it.

This then has a deflationary effect on everyone else's rent.

Anything that brings down commercial rents is to be welcomed.

[tastingstars]

There are now stories of significant buildings being torn down as the demolition cost is lower than the rates bill - it's especially true of older buildings that would have come down in a few years anyway. So as well as repossession conveyancing and corporate bankruptcy work, we have a new growth area in the economy - demolition contracting!

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

This is just truly amazing legislation from the Government. Basically since April 1st, Landlords now have to pay the rates on business properties that are empty.

On the little estate where my unit is, I would say half of them are empty, and the Landlord is having to pay rates on ALL OF THEM now...

Does this strike anyone as unfair- or is it just me? Surely this is going to push the Landlord to ask for more rent from the people who are already there? Essentially putting the idea of ever making a profit out of some peoples heads. Or more likely to make them give up altogether- they- guess what- there's one less, the spiral continues... Thanks GB. twit

Have a gander

This is definitely good legislation.

At the end of the day the businesses that matter are not landlords, but the real firms that do real business. This will have a significant deflationary effect on prices as it increases the cost of holding property idle.

The real economy can't thrive until property prices come down. Basically a lot of landlords need to lose a lot of money and perhaps liquidate, allowing new landlords to buy at a cheaper price which means they can then let out at a cheaper price. The economy will then recover.

[Guest KingCharles1st]

You're looking at it the wrong way.

If the landlord has to pay rates on an empty property it encourages him to reduce the rent he is asking in order to let it.

This then has a deflationary effect on everyone else's rent.

Anything that brings down commercial rents is to be welcomed.

Hmmm- I agree with you in part, but-

Lets just hope your garden shed isn't next.

Window tax- remember that...

[Moo]

Does this strike anyone as unfair- or is it just me? Surely this is going to push the Landlord to ask for more rent from the people who are already there? Essentially putting the idea of ever making a profit out of some peoples heads. Or more likely to make them give up altogether- they- guess what- there's one less, the spiral continues... Thanks GB. twit

Depends on how you look at it really. We abandoned our office a few years ago in a bit of a "work from home" experiment, and never really looked back. Why? Well...

We don't need a large office, and (unless something freakish happens) we never will. We do, however, need a small, secure, presentable office, with parking, in a location convenient location, aaaand... we're tight. In our opinion, office rents are absolutely insane when you consider what you actually get for the money, and the terms on which they're let are often equally insane. We've had a couple of goes at looking for stuff over the last few years, but you end up dealing with jokers who insist "oh, the last lot had six in here" while we're scratching our heads over how we'd fit half that number, pillocks who want you to sign contracts that commit you to something closer to marrying the office than just renting it, and the whole range of stupidity in between.

Okay, we're lucky. We work bloody well as a team, we (rightly) trust each other, and we've got the necessary self-discipline to work from home (not saying it ain't hard from time to time though...), but that isn't the case for everyone, especially new start-ups where there isn't yet the strong working relationship, and well-established procedures that you find in a mature outfit. Personally, I feel the farcially high rent charged for smaller offices inparticular is, along with business rates, seriously stiffling small start-up businesses which, right at the point where they're most vulnerable, and are at most in need of a bit less pressure on the cashflow, are often being forced into paying waaaaaaaa[insert another 9.8m letter 'a' here]aaaaaay over the odds for complete and absolute crap for portions of converted store-rooms, "off-cuts" of larger offices, and all that shite, simply because the owner has almost nothing to lose by leaving them standing empty - zero risk, paid for, only cost of not letting prior to April being opportunity cost. In effect, it's just like residential "buy to leave", but with commercial premises.

Now, this wouldn't be so bad if there was anything like a shortage of office space. Here in southwest Surrey, I don't see that shortage. We've never, ever failed to find endless lists of small offices, smallish offices, actually quite big offices, and far too big for us offices up for rent. They're out there. There are plenty of them, but they just don't end up filled. It's a complete waste of resources, just like empty residential property. For example, I defy anyone to drive along the A3 through Guildford without seeing at least one X-thousand-feet-available sign on each on the main office complexes to the south. They're everywhere! Perfectly good premises that owners are happy to see stand idle rather than lower the price, or offer sensible terms.

Looking at it from the other side, I accept that there's a basic problem with this detering investment in new business premises. That's pretty obvious to me, and would be a very siginificant downside in my opinion had it been introduced at a time of genuine shortage. We're not at that time right now, not by a long chalk. Yes, I feel a degree of sympathy with some owners who've got awkward, specialist property that they just can't let, or those who're behaving rationally with regard to price and conditions, but for those who still insist on demanding a couple of grand a month for a broom cupboard above a kebab shop, and are quite happily to leave it empty until some 'tard comes along and offers to pay it, then quite frankly, they've got to do what this place is forever urging domestic sellers to do.... DROP THE PRICE...

(Editing 4 splenning)

Edited July 8, 2008 by Moo

[chichi]

It's a good idea if it reduces rents.

[OnlyMe]

This is just truly amazing legislation from the Government. Basically since April 1st, Landlords now have to pay the rates on business properties that are empty.

On the little estate where my unit is, I would say half of them are empty, and the Landlord is having to pay rates on ALL OF THEM now...

Have a gander

Half empty?

Obviously not charging a market rent then, or a rent that can carry a sustainable business - or indeed has already paid a contributing part in sending a business under.

For too long landlords who have a unitary/group hold on an area have been able to artificially fix the rental on commercial property all around many areas of the country.

Now it will cost them to pay for this game - otherwise as businesses go under the increasing commercial rates would have been lumped onto those places that were let - I doubt if you'd have liked that!

Some buildings may be pulled down, most that have any useful usability value won't. They'll be sold on or rented at a more appropriate market rent - that's if this bubble hasn't wiped out the prospect of new business startups for an extended period - the costs are still insane.

[Moo]

For too long landlords who have a unitary/group hold on an area have been able to artificially fix the rental on commercial property all around many areas of the country.

That I can agree with whole-heartedly with both knobs and flashing lights on.

[chichi]

It isn't optional? Does it apply to all industrial land or just buildings?

http://www.investinmanchester.com/

Maybe we need to start a watch on sites like this which list business places to rent.

[The Conveyancer]

What we are told to advise commercial landlords in light of the new legislation is to keep their tenants at all costs. If they are having trouble paying the rent they should try to help them rather than chucking them out or starting proceedings against them. This certainly does put more power in the hands of the tenants.

Also this is good for charity shops. Landlords will let them have short leases on empty shops just so they save money on the business rates.

[chichi]

What we are told to advise commercial landlords in light of the new legislation is to keep their tenants at all costs. If they are having trouble paying the rent they should try to help them rather than chucking them out or starting proceedings against them. This certainly does put more power in the hands of the tenants.

Also this is good for charity shops. Landlords will let them have short leases on empty shops just so they save money on the business rates.

One charity shop I know is paying £1000 a month for a small shop with storage space attached - this is Failsworth not city centre ... the same landlord has a huge warehouse empty next to the place too -

So how much business rates does he pay on a warehouse? Is it per square foot?

I've had a look but don't know what the multiplier is...

But I noticed this:

Can I get my property taken out of the rating list altogether?

If your property is not capable of beneficial occupation – for instance, if is in poor condition and cannot be economically repaired – your valuation officer may judge that it should be taken out of the rating list altogether. However, please be aware that if the state of your property is damaged for the purposes of avoiding rates, under the new anti-avoidance legislation introduced by Government you valuation officer will be required to disregard the change in the property’s state when assessing its rateable value. So for instance if the roof is removed from an empty property for the purpose of avoiding rates, it may be valued as if the roof had not been removed.

http://www.oldham.gov.uk/working/business-...ss_property.htm

Edited July 8, 2008 by chichi

[Sheer Heart Attack]

I am one year into a three-year lease.

How can I use this to my advantage?

TIA (rubbing hands with glee)

[Bloo Loo]

This would be nice if it applied to BTL porperty too.

They ARE a business..... arent they????

[renterbob]

This would be nice if it applied to BTL porperty too.

They ARE a business..... arent they????

Yes.

Anyone more information on this?

[Sheer Heart Attack]

Yes.

Anyone more information on this?

Before anyone gets their hopes up, it will apply to commercially-used property as opposed to residential property, I am sure.

If I am not mistaken, the hapless BTL landlord already pays domestic rates on unlet properties. Commercial property is designated into certain uses with certain classifications, and I am sure it is only these commercial classifications to which the new law will apply.

[Bloo Loo]

Before anyone gets their hopes up, it will apply to commercially-used property as opposed to residential property, I am sure.

If I am not mistaken, the hapless BTL landlord already pays domestic rates on unlet properties. Commercial property is designated into certain uses with certain classifications, and I am sure it is only these commercial classifications to which the new law will apply.

I am sure you are correct, I mean, it would take some effort to detect which houses and flats are BTL, whereas Commercial properties are obvious.

[crashmonitor]

Most local authorities apply a 100% council tax charge to residential properties which have been empty for six months.BTLers are already paying for the priviledge of owning a crashing liability if they keep it empty.

[Guest sillybear2]

All property is theft, rents are free because money doesn't really exist.

[homeless]

rates are a burden nearly as much as rents for commercial property.

a small one window shop in a side street in an average town most likely will be paying about £80 a week in rates, this is simply extortion by councils, i notice however councils often reach a point where no-one wants the properties and thus just like landlords have to start reducing the rates to get the buisness.Once rates are reduced an area can often be invigorated again, its often the council that destroy their own high streets due to greed.

[The Masked Tulip]

Brown has a history of introducing retrograde taxes to punish small business people - IR35 was one, a few years ago he tried to screw married couples by changing the tax rules on partners earning money from a business but lost out in the courts. The car tax thing for the general public is just him, IMPO, getting out of control.

I notice this week that the IR is now saying that self-employed who work from home can claim higher rents on their home offices and apparently even get tax relief on their mortgage interest - I do not trust that man one bit and it would not surprise me if they give the od to that today and in a year's time they change the rules slightly to screw millions of self-employed home office users who take those tax breaks now.

As a self-employed person you simply do not know where you stand with Brown. Even Chartered Accountants have trouble understanding the numerous tax changes.

I have said it before, I think Brown thinks, IMPO, that all small self-employed people are spivs. Nu Labour got into bed with big business because it needed them but its fundamental hatred of small business people is very obvious IMPO. Sadly, it is very damaging to this country.

[crashmonitor]

rates are a burden nearly as much as rents for commercial property.

a small one window shop in a side street in an average town most likely will be paying about £80 a week in rates, this is simply extortion by councils, i notice however councils often reach a point where no-one wants the properties and thus just like landlords have to start reducing the rates to get the buisness.Once rates are reduced an area can often be invigorated again, its often the council that destroy their own high streets due to greed.

Somebody's got to pay the boomers LA super-annuation pension shortfall,seems the only option to rape the finances of small businessmen who make less than 10K and can't afford to fund a pension of their own.

[_w_]

This is just truly amazing legislation from the Government. Basically since April 1st, Landlords now have to pay the rates on business properties that are empty.

On the little estate where my unit is, I would say half of them are empty, and the Landlord is having to pay rates on ALL OF THEM now...

Does this strike anyone as unfair- or is it just me? Surely this is going to push the Landlord to ask for more rent from the people who are already there? Essentially putting the idea of ever making a profit out of some peoples heads. Or more likely to make them give up altogether- they- guess what- there's one less, the spiral continues... Thanks GB. twit

Have a gander

It's not a new tax. It is the removal of a subsidy.

It might encourage landlords to ask for rents that encourage people to use these properties. Does a subsidy to greedy landlords strike you as fair? Is this what taxes are for in your mind? Would you rather low incomes were taxed more? Or duty on fuel raised even more? Or how about we close a few hospitals and schools instead so your nice landlord's waiting game with prospective tenants can keep being subsidised with our taxes?

Edited July 8, 2008 by williamdb

[_w_]

rates are a burden nearly as much as rents for commercial property.

a small one window shop in a side street in an average town most likely will be paying about £80 a week in rates, this is simply extortion by councils, i notice however councils often reach a point where no-one wants the properties and thus just like landlords have to start reducing the rates to get the buisness.Once rates are reduced an area can often be invigorated again, its often the council that destroy their own high streets due to greed.

£80 per week is not the end of the world IMO. And taxes have to be paid by someone.

I think the problem is more with how stupidly taxes revenue can be spent by unaccountable local authorities which then results in those taxes being higher. In my neck of the wood the council have installed brand spanking new digital signs in the neighbourhood's streets that show the date of the next Fulham Football Club match...

in the meantime they can't even do the bin collections right.