Talking To Young People In My Office

[Saving For a Space Ship]

i did notice that no young people have a 'fire in the belly' for HPs.

could be they cant remeber a time when a 20-30 got married and bought a house. if all their friends are at home at 35 theres not going to be any rush to attempt to nail their heads into a 210k run down terrace on 13k wages per year.

young people enjoy thoughtless bingedrinking and generally have a very temporary life compared with previous generations who had budgie jackets and queen albums.

in 1978 the average 38 year old was fat, drank bitter, massive mutton chop sideboards, 3 kids and read the mirror on the bog at work with a donkey jacket on the door.

in 2005 they are still teenagers with manbags, funky clothes, red-bulls and ipods. 

they act 19 at 28. Ive seen them on skateboards at 35 - !!!

i think they have lost the plot.

god help us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

THe budgie jackets are back , they just sleeveless & look like there made of synthi rabbit fur

[Pent Vaer]

I've found a little of what you state - the twenty-somethings now willing to live forever at home. It all seems normal these days, rather than sad.'

Yeah, that's exaclty the word. It was considered very sad to be still living with your parents in

your mid 20s. Christ and I'm only mid 30s. Times change fast. I guess when Charlie was a lad

you were a slacker if you weren't working down the mines or regional equivalent age 12

Pent

[VacantPossession]

This is an interesting thread, and a nice relief from the usual missionary zeal stuff we all churn out.

There has clearly been a evolutionary change in attitudes between parent and child in the last few decades.

When I was 18 I could not wait to leave home, even though my parents were liberal thinking and generally tolerant. In those days you were considered quite a nerd for staying at home beyond 20, and a positive wierdo for staying on many days after that.

The generation gap of the 60's and 70's has all but disappeared in the sense I understood it. Mothers in 1970 sniffed at a female visitor and made up beds in opposite corners of the house. Nowadays, they make up a double bed for any teenage heart-throbs, and a good thing too.

So none of the moral, religious, stiff upper lip, repression now exists. It was rife, even in the sixties. That gives a distinct liberation and tolerance which doubtless enhances a parent child relationship in the last decade. Thankfully, parents and children communicate in all ways on a more equal footing.

On the other hand, I do wonder why a thirty year old grown man still sees any advantage living at home whether he can afford a mortgage or not. I find it a little strange that someone of that age can deny themselves a truly independent life for the sake of domestic convenience. My generation had a strongly driven desire to make their own way in the world, however poverty stricken they might become as a result. Perhaps the twenty first century is so steeped in materialism that convenience is everything.

Personally I would prefer a hovel I could call my own.

VP

[FrozenOut]

This is an interesting thread, and a nice relief from the usual missionary zeal stuff we all churn out.

There has clearly been a evolutionary change in attitudes between parent and child in the last few decades.

When I was 18 I could not wait to leave home, even though my parents were liberal thinking and generally tolerant. In those days you were considered quite a nerd for staying at home beyond 20, and a positive wierdo for staying on many days after that.

The generation gap of the 60's and 70's has all but disappeared in the sense I understood it. Mothers in 1970 sniffed at a female visitor and made up beds in opposite corners of the house. Nowadays, they make up a double bed for any teenage heart-throbs, and a good thing too.

So none of the moral, religious, stiff upper lip, repression now exists. It was rife, even in the sixties. That gives a distinct liberation and tolerance which doubtless enhances a parent child relationship in the last decade. Thankfully, parents and children communicate in all ways on a more equal footing.

On the other hand, I do wonder why a thirty year old grown man still sees any advantage living at home whether he can afford a mortgage or not. I find it a little strange that someone of that age can deny themselves a truly independent life for the sake of domestic convenience. My generation had a strongly driven desire to make their own way in the world, however poverty stricken they might become as a result. Perhaps the twenty first century is so steeped in materialism that convenience is everything.

Personally I would prefer a hovel I could call my own.

VP

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oooooh join the big wide world by buying an over inflated asset that I'll be paying off well in to my 50's - Times have changed now, for once you could probably look back to 'your day' and say, you actually had it better.

The advantage to staying at home is clearly obvious in todays climate - I don't face financial ruin - I'm clearly gutted I don't have my own 'hovel'

In a toss up between having the world congratulate me for being 'a man' and having my own place at no matter what the extortionate cost and having everyone turn their back on me when it all goes to shit on me, and staying at home and making a sound financial deceission that doesn't leave me scrimping and scraping in to my old age, I'll take the latter - buy when the market falls on it's **** and live a decent life and not worrying what will happen if the next quarter point see's me and my family out on the street.

What do I earn ? a measly £17-25k ? No mate, just over £40k, buying property now is a mugs game and I find it offensive that you sit and assume I'm basically free loading and scared of the world, I don't intend to die in the not too distant future, so I've got many years left - I want to spend them on my feet, and not on my knees. :angry:

VP, Your comments are offensive.

[Guest Charlie The Tramp]

I guess when Charlie was a lad

you were a slacker if you weren't working down the mines or regional equivalent age 12 

Pent

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was a lad in the swinging sixties, did two jobs and in 1964 bought my first motor.

A brand new mini van for £349. At that time if you had wheels you were the bee`s knees.

Admired and chased by the girls and looked upon by their Mums as a prospective son in law. I had many escapes with the Mums when I realised they had their own desires with me, and there was I, young, sweet, and innocent.

[Van]

This is an interesting thread, and a nice relief from the usual missionary zeal stuff we all churn out.

There has clearly been a evolutionary change in attitudes between parent and child in the last few decades.

When I was 18 I could not wait to leave home, even though my parents were liberal thinking and generally tolerant. In those days you were considered quite a nerd for staying at home beyond 20, and a positive wierdo for staying on many days after that.

The generation gap of the 60's and 70's has all but disappeared in the sense I understood it. Mothers in 1970 sniffed at a female visitor and made up beds in opposite corners of the house. Nowadays, they make up a double bed for any teenage heart-throbs, and a good thing too.

So none of the moral, religious, stiff upper lip, repression now exists. It was rife, even in the sixties. That gives a distinct liberation and tolerance which doubtless enhances a parent child relationship in the last decade. Thankfully, parents and children communicate in all ways on a more equal footing.

On the other hand, I do wonder why a thirty year old grown man still sees any advantage living at home whether he can afford a mortgage or not. I find it a little strange that someone of that age can deny themselves a truly independent life for the sake of domestic convenience. My generation had a strongly driven desire to make their own way in the world, however poverty stricken they might become as a result. Perhaps the twenty first century is so steeped in materialism that convenience is everything.

Personally I would prefer a hovel I could call my own.

VP

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice post, VP. Personally, I think if you pay housekeeping to your parents (as anyone living at home morally should), it shouldn't then be a matter of money that's keeping you at home, but rather than you actually do want to live at home. You could easily club together with some friends or look for a houseshare if you can't afford to rent a place outright. It can be a lot of fun. Sure, you might choose to pay your parents rather than a landlord, but by the same token parents shouldn't expect you to have this preference.

Personally, I think there is an element that the younger generation expect to have everything done for them, which is a part of what keeps them at home for longer. Understandable, for a generation that doesn't know how to cook or iron...

[Bluelady]

Oooooh join the big wide world by buying an over inflated asset that I'll be paying off well in to my 50's - Times have changed now, for once you could probably look back to 'your day' and say, you actually had it better.

The advantage to staying at home is clearly obvious in todays climate - I don't face financial ruin - I'm clearly gutted I don't have my own 'hovel'

In a toss up between having the world congratulate me for being 'a man' and having my own place at no matter what the extortionate cost and having everyone turn their back on me when it all goes to shit on me, and staying at home and making a sound financial deceission that doesn't leave me scrimping and scraping in to my old age, I'll take the latter - buy when the market falls on it's **** and live a decent life and not worrying what will happen if the next quarter point see's me and my family out on the street.

What do I earn ? a measly £17-25k ?  No mate, just over £40k, buying property now is a mugs game and I find it offensive that you sit and assume I'm basically free loading and scared of the world, I don't intend to die in the not too distant future, so I've got many years left - I want to spend them on my feet, and not on my knees.  :angry:

VP, Your comments are offensive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

VP's comments are only offensive if you took them personally - and it appears you did, even though they weren't addressed to you at all. A case of if the cap fits?

My son is also 30 and, if he were earning £40k a year, there's absolutely no way I'd subsidise him salting thousands away in the bank by allowing him to live at home. In what way is this any different to parents giving their kids a deposit?

People need independence, that's what we bring our kids up to achieve, I'd see myself as a complete failure if my son was still living at home.

[Van]

VP's comments are only offensive if you took them personally - and it appears you did, even though they weren't addressed to you at all.  A case of if the cap fits?

My son is also 30 and, if he were earning £40k a year, there's absolutely no way I'd subsidise him salting thousands away in the bank by allowing him to live at home.  In what way is this any different to parents giving their kids a deposit?

People need independence, that's what we bring our kids up to achieve, I'd see myself as a complete failure if my son was still living at home.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, and I bet you appreciate it all the more when he does actually make a flying visit every once in a while. I know my mum certainly does!

[Bluelady]

I most certainly do - and will do all the more after May when he takes off for a year or so travelling. All paid for with money he's worked for and saved, while also maintaining a place of his own.

[zzg113]

There's been so much mindless and sweeping generalisation on this thread it's difficult to know where to begin.

99% of these "youngsters" that I have trained over the last year are living at home with their parents (something unheard of when i was 'young')

House prices at the current levels were also unheard of when you were young.

They have no intention of buying a property and could not afford it even if they could scrape the money together.

They have had the decision whether or not to buy taken out of their hands by today's extortionate house prices. So whether they intend to buy or not is utterly irrelevant.

they seem quite resigned to the fact and don't seem at all hung up about it

I suspect they are in a minority.

they all say they are quite happy to wait until prices come down

I think "happy" is probably not the right word. "Have no choice but to wait" is more like it.

Many have an attitude of 'Why should I pay a huge chunk of income to rent some squalid flat or bedsit?'

That is the correct attitude, IMO.

COAB, good post about the divide between those who bought property before the boom took off and those who did/could not. The divide really is that stark.

There has clearly been a evolutionary change in attitudes between parent and child in the last few decades

Sweeping generalisation. Every family is different.

I do wonder why a thirty year old grown man still sees any advantage living at home whether he can afford a mortgage or not.

Personally I would prefer a hovel I could call my own.

Uh, VP, if he can't afford a mortgage it wouldn't be his OWN hovel would it? It would have to be rented.

there's absolutely no way I'd subsidise him salting thousands away in the bank by allowing him to live at home.

That's cos you're a tightfisted old harpy.

while also maintaining a place of his own.

It is not "a place of his OWN", because he RENTS.

[88Crash]

What do I earn ? a measly £17-25k ?   No mate, just over £40k, buying property now is a mugs game and I find it offensive that you sit and assume I'm basically free loading and scared of the world, I don't intend to die in the not too distant future, so I've got many years left - I want to spend them on my feet, and not on my knees.  :angry:

VP, Your comments are offensive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You need to excuse some of the older people that may infer you're a freeloader

Reading between the lines you would have bought your own home, all things being equal

But it stikes me a Home is not one of the following

1. Dinner part conversation - RE The price

2. An Investment

3. A Pension

4. A MEWing alternative to working for what we would like to buy

5. A place you live in where a quater point IR increase F**cks you up and spoils your day

The quicker people of you age and earnings refuse to support the UK housing prices, the quicker they will come down and hopefully you will be able to by a home

[Bluelady]

No it's not because I'm a tightfisted old harpy. It's because I brought him up to have some pride and independence of spirit, to stand on his own feet and I'm extremely proud of him for doing that. And it is a place of his own where he can do what he likes with no interference from anyone because he pays the rent - would it be a place of his own if he rented the money to pay for it from the bank?

[88Crash]

VP's comments are only offensive if you took them personally - and it appears you did, even though they weren't addressed to you at all.  A case of if the cap fits?

My son is also 30 and, if he were earning £40k a year, there's absolutely no way I'd subsidise him salting thousands away in the bank by allowing him to live at home.  In what way is this any different to parents giving their kids a deposit?

People need independence, that's what we bring our kids up to achieve, I'd see myself as a complete failure if my son was still living at home.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would you really think you were a complete failure if he still lived at home?

I mean a bit pissed off with him, maybe

Taking advatage maybe (as many kids do)

But a complete failure, that seems a bit harsh, there is a bit more to life than a house/flat

[zzg113]

I mean a bit pissed off with him, maybe

Why would you be pissed off with him? What the **** else is he supposed to do?

Can't afford to buy.

If he rents he will never be able to save for a deposit and buy.

You tell me, what the **** is he supposed to do?

[Bluelady]

Why would you be pissed off with him? What the **** else is he supposed to do?

Can't afford to buy.

If he rents he will never be able to save for a deposit and buy.

You tell me, what the **** is he supposed to do?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I would feel a failure. I brought him up to be independent and have his own life, if he still wanted to live at home I'd consider I'd failed in bringing him up with the right values.

We've been here before, zz, he has no wish to save up a deposit and buy, as I've told you before. He's travelling for 18 months from May and, if and when he comes back, intends to start saving again to spend another 18 months in South America. I very much doubt that he'll ever live permanently in this country again.

[88Crash]

Why would you be pissed off with him? What the **** else is he supposed to do?

Can't afford to buy.

If he rents he will never be able to save for a deposit and buy.

You tell me, what the **** is he supposed to do?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Working on the the "If my son was on 40K" comparison

Youngsters on 40K do have a choice, as oppossed to No choice

Hence if my son was on 40K, but didn't buy a few years back, I'd be pissed off with him still being at home, but would understand why he didn't want to buy a mediocre home that will probably put him in Negative equity very soon

[Bluelady]

So would I. But I wouldn't allow him to stay at home instead of renting a place to live and saving at the same time. How will someone in that position cope if and when they do buy a place of their own? Or will they expect their mum to go round and do their washing, ironing and cleaning for them still?

[Guest wrongmove]

So would I.  But I wouldn't allow him to stay at home instead of renting a place to live and saving at the same time.  How will someone in that position cope if and when they do buy a place of their own?  Or will they expect their mum to go round and do their washing, ironing and cleaning for them still?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quite right Bluelady. I am only mid 30's and no-one I knew when young stayed with their parents or bought houses. We shared, rented, a couple even squatted ! One rather lazy friend of mine of mine did try to hand around the parental home and his parents actually downsized to get rid of him ! Just told him one day that they were moving house and there was no room at the new abode.

Of course if parent and child both want to continue to share a house, then that is up to them and good luck to them, but it does seem a bit unnatural to me. Whatever.

[Guest Charlie The Tramp]

One rather lazy friend of mine did try to hand around the parental home and his parents actually downsized to get rid of him

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks wrongmove, I never thought of that, problem solved.

[Guest wrongmove]

Thanks wrongmove, I never thought of that, problem solved. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL Glad to be of service Charlie.

Just don't tell him/her where you got the idea !

[Michael]

I was a lad in the swinging sixties, did two jobs and in 1964 bought my first motor.

A brand new mini van for £349. At that time if you had wheels you were the bee`s knees.

Admired and chased by the girls and looked upon by their Mums as a  prospective son in law. I had many escapes with the Mums when I realised they had their own desires with me, and there was I, young, sweet, and innocent. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes ,and in the sixties the smallest Victorian terraces were completely out of fashion....They were going for a little as £1000...........3bed semi was £4000.....

Average worker got about £950 a year......

That's an HP to income ratio of 1.05 for the terrace!..............in the average town it's now 6.6 !

[m00seb0y2]

What do I earn ? a measly £17-25k ?  No mate, just over £40k, buying property now is a mugs game and I find it offensive that you sit and assume I'm basically free loading...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jesus, 40k and you're still at mum & dad's?

Can't you let them have a bit of time to themselves before they're too old to enjoy it, you selfish little bedwetter?

If you were mine I'd have downsized long ago... :angry:

[Guest Charlie The Tramp]

yes ,and in the sixties the smallest Victorian terraces were completely out of fashion....They were going for a little as £1000

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, that is the madness caused by the so called trendy people.

In Canonbury Sq, Islington the grand old houses could be bought for a song.

Along comes Roger Moore buys and refurbishes one, then followed by the trendies and now 1 or 2 million plus.

[zzg113]

I wouldn't allow him to stay at home instead of renting a place to live and saving at the same time.

Why make it doubly hard for him? If you let him live at home he can save quicker and buy his own place quicker. By not letting him do that you are effectively forcing him to line a landlord's pocket AND save for a deposit at the same time. With parents like those, who needs enemies?

Also, your illusion BL that you can save the size of deposit that is required to afford today's property prices and pay an extortionate rent just shows how long it's been since you last rented.

Jesus, 40k and you're still at mum & dad's?

Don't be a t0sser all your life Mooseboy, FO has only recently moved back to his parents after living away so that he can save more quickly to buy his own place, AND HIS PARENTS ARE PERFECTLY HAPPY FOR HIM TO DO THAT. So take your sanctimonious attitude and shove it up your ar5e.

you selfish little bedwetter?

Who's the one who's being selfish, the ones who won't let THEIR OWN CHILD stay at home so that they can save up and buy their own home as quickly as possible? With parents like those, who needs enemies?

[Michael]

Yes, that is the madness caused by the so called trendy people.

In Canonbury Sq, Islington the grand old houses could be bought for a song.

Along comes Roger Moore buys and refurbishes one, then followed by the trendies and now 1 or 2 million plus.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes i understand Canonbury Sq prices up from £4k in the mid 60s to over a million now!