What Would You Pay?

[aardvark]

Research is an odd thing - large amounts of tedium that needs a huge amount of concentration coupled with great analytical skills and the occasional flash of brilliance.

depends on the type of research really - very little boring analytical stuff in my research job - its mostly synthesis.

the pay sucks though.

[mommin]

award as an anual salary for a....

Nurses

18k

I dont understand why people think 30k.. thats just silly. The job requires little in the way of difficult training and you can enter for the diploma route with 5 GCSEs. I dont understand the disparity between peopels reposnes to the mechanic and the nurse, they are on a par in terms of how hard it is to find suitable candidates.

Call centre worker

12k

Only requirement is that you can read.

Car mechanic

18k

Research scientist

Hmm hard one.. should vary depending on how important the research is and hard to find suitbale candidates. Eg if its just stats based psychology or some such then 18k, if its something a bit harder then up to 30k.

Can't really comment on the entrance requirements (except for the fact that I needed 3 C's at A'level) but if you think that nursing requires no difficult training then think again as it's not all bed pans and baths. Nurses take blood, give iv drugs (including those that have the potential to kill you), perform ECG's the list is endless. Oh and before you say it I know Dr's prescribe the drugs but they're not the ones to give them (unless in some intstances it's a first dose) - nor are they the ones doing the calculation at the drug trolley to make sure you get the dose that has been prescribed.

I could go on but it would only make me even angrier that someone who clearly has little idea of what nurses actually do values them so lowly - you have obviously never needed time under their care.

[Kris]

Can't really comment on the entrance requirements (except for the fact that I needed 3 C's at A'level) but if you think that nursing requires no difficult training then think again as it's not all bed pans and baths. Nurses take blood, give iv drugs (including those that have the potential to kill you), perform ECG's the list is endless. Oh and before you say it I know Dr's prescribe the drugs but they're not the ones to give them (unless in some intstances it's a first dose) - nor are they the ones doing the calculation at the drug trolley to make sure you get the dose that has been prescribed.

I could go on but it would only make me even angrier that someone who clearly has little idea of what nurses actually do values them so lowly - you have obviously never needed time under their care.

Don't forget the strange shifts with early starts, late finishes, long days, nights. Have we mentioned all the emotional baggage that comes with it?

My GF is one so I get to see most of this, they are very underpaid in my opinion!

Edited April 15, 2007 by Kris

[REP013]

This is a really interesting thread.

What would you pay?

I would pay a nurse every penny I could find to keep my wife and / or children alive.

If I needed my car fixed, dependent on the circumstances, I would pay a mechanic more than the value of my car.

For good call centre advice ... £1.00 a minute (max)

For a research scientist ... If I thought their research would save my wife or children's life then every penny I could find too.

[Orbital]

yeah i dont see why nurses are so highly valued either. Doctors, yep, I get that. Nurses - very important to any health service for sure, but the wage must reflect who can do the job.

Compare with a French teacher. Starting wage, just over 20k. Five years of higher education! An MFL Uni course will be 4 years long with a year spent in the country studied, followed by a year long Uni PGCE course, followed by a further NQT year at a school! So it takes 6 years to qualify as a French teacher, yet the earning potential will never be as comparable as a doctor.

I guess I understand why people value the 'life saving' doctors over the teacher, but id point out the latter has a large role in shaping the nations future prosperity - what value can you place on that? How can we have any doctors with no teachers? The truth is that we are running low on quality teachers and the knock on will be obvious, and it will take years to turn it around. I loved the irony in the government scheme to encourage teachers by paying back their student loan/fees - so paying off a student loan/fees is an incentive on one hand, yet all the time they are telling us money doesnt affect people's decision to go to Uni. Well either it does or it doesnt lol - doesnt quite add up!

Edited April 16, 2007 by Orbital

[peemac]

Nurse ~25k

Mechanic ~16K

call centre worker - minimum wage

research scientist - whatever is comparable to decent lawyer, accountant etc.

reasoning being-

call center = totally unskilled

Mechanic = trained monkey

Nurse = trained dedicated monkey in a demanding job

research scientist/lawyer/teacher/accountant = many years of dedicated training combined with a bit of intelligence, aptitude and determination.

Actually postdoc wages aren't TOO bad these days, starting wage is £24500 at a decent university. And the lifestyle is good. Anyone doing it who says it's not a good lifestyle has never done REALLY hard work. Having said that it's not what they (we) deserve when compared to other proffesions with similar amounts of training and intelligence required.

[me me me]

Let's say you have the chance to decide what the following jobs pay, what would your award as an anual salary for a....

Nurses

Call centre worker

Car mechanic

Research scientist

Nurses

Depending on her level of fitness and attention to detail I would say 20k basic with OTE of 40k

Call centre worker

1061250 rupees or we could put the Uk prison population to good use and get them to man the phones for free or 38p per day

Car mechanic

Ones I usually get lumbered with, 12k. A person who actually fixes your car and doesn't take you for a ride. 30k

Research scientist

Too vague so I can't comment

Researching which is better Dove or Simple - 15k

Reasearch scientist for HIV & TB. 100k

Edited April 16, 2007 by me me me

[aardvark]

Research scientist

Too vague so I can't comment

Researching which is better Dove or Simple - 15k

Reasearch scientist for HIV & TB. 100k

thats ironic - its actually the other way round.

[me me me]

thats ironic - its actually the other way round.

In my world you get what you deserve.

[Rachman]

Don't forget the strange shifts with early starts, late finishes, long days, nights. Have we mentioned all the emotional baggage that comes with it?

My GF is one so I get to see most of this, they are very underpaid in my opinion!

My mother has been one, several of our family has been and they all say the same, there are many many good nurses who deserve the pay they get and more and a hell of a lot of "@rse wipers" who are useless and a total waste of time - I am not buying the get paid for the emotional pain of the job - er, they CHOSE to be a nurse - surely it's not a shock.

And seriously, most nursing is not technically that difficult - if it were, it should have much higher entry standards - it takes a special sort of person to do it well, but that's not the same as meaning we should pay nurses so much more.

I'd also love to know where you think the money is going to come from to pay these higher wages without sending inflation stratospheric.

Edited April 16, 2007 by Rachman

[aardvark]

In my world you get what you deserve.

i wish i lived in that world.

[Wait & See]

Someone mentioned this earlier,

20k a year would be fine if your mortgage payment or rent was £300 a month, which is what it should be anyway for an average house.

It's paying 150k for an ex council house thats NOT FINE :angry:

[skhudy]

Lets pay everyone 50k starting.... NOT!

Its Supply and demand. Just wish it were easier to get into some professions. A Tube worker / driver get a fantasitic pay and holiday deal, and still threaten strikes every couple of years.

IT was the in thing 10 15 years ago, had a flood of people going to uni to study it, and now starting salary is much lower, that's the way of the world.

[Guest pioneer31]

Well nurses work 12 hour shifts, mechanics work 8

Nurses work Saturdays and Sundays , mechanics do not.

Also salary is not derived from difficulty and it is more difficult to retain nurses than it is to retain mechanics. Probably because being a nurse is far more demanding.

but night staff (especially) can spend long periods of time doing very little - sitting there waiting for one of the patients to groan. It's not 12 hours of slog.

I'm not sure a mechanic would have the same kind of experience on a 12 hour shift.

My old man used to teach (basic Physics) to nurses. They are not highly skilled but DO work in an emotive profession, hence the cries for 30 grand. They do a very useful job and I'm sure the NHS treats them like **** but there are plenty of people who have/do slog harder and uses more grey matter, who are merely glossed over because their job is not in an emotive area.

I wonder why the OP didn't list more jobs. Policemen for sure are overpaid/underbrained. I'd rather swap their salary with a nurse's.

Nurses - 25k

Call centre worker - min wage. If they work for Tiscali, a bowl of stale rice and a slap round the head.

Car mechanic - £20k

Research scientist - depends what they are researching. Cures for illness - £50k+.......

Edited April 16, 2007 by pioneer31

[peemac]

Its Supply and demand. Just wish it were easier to get into some professions.

So it's not supply and demand then is it

If it were why would we hear the same old rubbish about skills shortages in engineering every year? Never here about a shortage of lawyers or accountants do you, and they get paid loads. Funny that isn't it. Lots and lots of law and accounting graduates, competetive workplace yet they still get good money. Supposed engineering skills shortage yet wages are still relatively in the doldrums. That suggests that there's no skills shortage at all doesn't it?

[Guest pioneer31]

So it's not supply and demand then is it

If it were why would we hear the same old rubbish about skills shortages in engineering every year? Never here about a shortage of lawyers or accountants do you, and they get paid loads. Funny that isn't it. Lots and lots of law and accounting graduates, competetive workplace yet they still get good money. Supposed engineering skills shortage yet wages are still relatively in the doldrums. That suggests that there's no skills shortage at all doesn't it?

We have a shortage of Maths and Science teachers too and that makes no difference to the salary. You may as well teach flower arranging, they'll pay the same amount.

This country does have a shortage of engineers but it doesn't care (it never did). The only thing UK PLC is interested in is the financial sector - the making of a quick buck.

[wotnocrash]

So it's not supply and demand then is it

If it were why would we hear the same old rubbish about skills shortages in engineering every year? Never here about a shortage of lawyers or accountants do you, and they get paid loads. Funny that isn't it. Lots and lots of law and accounting graduates, competetive workplace yet they still get good money. Supposed engineering skills shortage yet wages are still relatively in the doldrums. That suggests that there's no skills shortage at all doesn't it?

Actually there is a very severe shortage of accountants, which is what is driving up the wages. At my firm (big 4 accountants), they are constantly struggling to retain and recruit good staff, despite taking on over 1000 graduates each year it does not keep up with the growth of the firm

[Rick62]

Actually there is a very severe shortage of accountants, which is what is driving up the wages. At my firm (big 4 accountants), they are constantly struggling to retain and recruit good staff, despite taking on over 1000 graduates each year it does not keep up with the growth of the firm

Ok, so its not because the major accounting firms have become effectively a cartel in a market that has boomed as a result of increasing government complexity (particularly in tax) and increasing volumes of major deals driven by PFI and private equity?

Sorry, forgot to mention, and new nonsense accounting regulations, such are sarbanes oxley and new international standards leading to plc accounts increasing to about 700 pages (HSBC plc).

Edited April 16, 2007 by Rick62

[peemac]

Actually there is a very severe shortage of accountants, which is what is driving up the wages. At my firm (big 4 accountants), they are constantly struggling to retain and recruit good staff, despite taking on over 1000 graduates each year it does not keep up with the growth of the firm

I don't believe that for a second.

I bet you could find treble that number of suitable graduates. And what about career changers? If you're struggling to fill accountancy vacancies get into the science and engineering postdocs and offer them a decent starting salary whilst they're training.

[Rachman]

I don't believe that for a second.

I bet you could find treble that number of suitable graduates. And what about career changers? If you're struggling to fill accountancy vacancies get into the science and engineering postdocs and offer them a decent starting salary whilst they're training.

I believe him - we can't get enough decent trainee solicitors - yes, I have hundreds of straight A students with 2:1s from redbricks, but as for talent, there's not a lot out there - I could hire and dilute the quality we have, but I refuse to do that - I'd rather wait for the right people - as it's better to only hire people you want to keep than to bring in bodies to firefight.

We pay 'a lot' of money to 23/24 year olds and a hell of a lot more to them once qualified - but can I find three I would unequivocally say yes to out of 6,000 (yes, thousand) applications, 150 of which hit my desk (rest filtered out by HR and outside firm) and of which I interview a dozen. Last year, I found one perfect candidate - someone else agreed and he went there instead.

[peemac]

I believe him - we can't get enough decent trainee solicitors - yes, I have hundreds of straight A students with 2:1s from redbricks, but as for talent, there's not a lot out there - I could hire and dilute the quality we have, but I refuse to do that - I'd rather wait for the right people - as it's better to only hire people you want to keep than to bring in bodies to firefight.

We pay 'a lot' of money to 23/24 year olds and a hell of a lot more to them once qualified - but can I find three I would unequivocally say yes to out of 6,000 (yes, thousand) applications, 150 of which hit my desk (rest filtered out by HR and outside firm) and of which I interview a dozen. Last year, I found one perfect candidate - someone else agreed and he went there instead.

Ever thought you might be looking in the wrong place for talent?

[BoomBoom]

I believe him - we can't get enough decent trainee solicitors - yes, I have hundreds of straight A students with 2:1s from redbricks, but as for talent, there's not a lot out there - I could hire and dilute the quality we have, but I refuse to do that - I'd rather wait for the right people - as it's better to only hire people you want to keep than to bring in bodies to firefight.

We pay 'a lot' of money to 23/24 year olds and a hell of a lot more to them once qualified - but can I find three I would unequivocally say yes to out of 6,000 (yes, thousand) applications, 150 of which hit my desk (rest filtered out by HR and outside firm) and of which I interview a dozen. Last year, I found one perfect candidate - someone else agreed and he went there instead.

What's a lot of money? Don't be coy, give us some figures.

[King Stromba]

Hmm, these days you can get a 2:1 by turning up. Dont they give A levels away in Kinder eggs?

[cells]

Hmm, these days you can get a 2:1 by turning up. Dont they give A levels away in Kinder eggs?

yeh and how many a levels and 2:1s do you have

media hype, it might be easier to get the lowest grades, eg an E in a-levels but that doesn’t mean shit. don’t put down those who got the highest grades just because you read some headline saying it was easy. if it where easy why doesn’t everyone have those grades!

[BoomBoom]

yeh and how many a levels and 2:1s do you have

media hype, it might be easier to get the lowest grades, eg an E in a-levels but that doesn’t mean shit. don’t put down those who got the highest grades just because you read some headline saying it was easy. if it where easy why doesn’t everyone have those grades!

People are too stupid to see what all of this whining about educational standards is designed to do. It's all about denigrating native British workers and using that as an excuse for keeping wages low and bringing in more and more cheap immigrant labour.