Will London Be Such A Desirable Place To Live

[Als]

Nanny will have to be firm.

I have a vision of moonbat Compliance Officers riding around on Bromptons.

[uncle_monty]

And, uh, how do you plan to do that? For 'public transport' (i.e. privately-run bus and train companies) to be even remotely as useful as a car, we'd need to run vastly more buses and trains and they'd inevitably be empty most of the time.

Public transport sucks ass; even when I worked in London some years ago the underground was so unreliable that I walked from the mainline rail station to where I worked because a guaranteed thirty minute walk was better than a maybe five minute underground trip or a maybe one hour underground trip.

Frankly, I always think it's hilarious when Londoners tell the rest of the country that we should give up our cars. If they'd actually bothered to travel outside London they'd realise that this country's economy would collapse overnight if all cars vanished in a puff of 'eco-magic'.

When we have devolution for England, can we dump London as well as Scotland?

Empty? If it cost £100 per day to drive into London, many disgruntled car owners would soon rediscover the joins of public transport.

The fact you fail to recognise is that if you desperately want or need your car, then you should be able use it. It will just mean foresaking other activities because of the cost or your individual carbon limits.

I will not be dragged into the usual regional slanging match of "my village is better than yours". I'm trying to have an adult discussion here.

[uncle_monty]

clearly your not

people will/ people wont. the government has a choice, lower fissile fuel use and wait over 100 years for the co2 levels to drop or start right now and reflect more light into space. one is costly and effects quality of life. the other is cheap and starts right now! which do you think makes more sense?

read my post a few back, how it clearly shows that this new road tax thing makes owning light efficient cars more expensive, owning electric cars more expensive. yet it doesn’t punish or punishes less big inefficient cars.

anyone know the full proposal for this system or where i can read it??

consume = destroy completely

what resources do we consume then? Apart from perhaps fossil fuels?

but i do agree we should curtail consumption not because we are "consuming" raw materials but because using less would be cheaper for all

I am not supporting this road charging scheme in particular. My ascersion is simple. We NEED a disincetive scheme for road & air travel, in concert with the use of other limited natural resources. This must be in concert with envirnmentally positive alternatives and incentives to use them.

My point is that changes are required and we (as a population) will not make the necessary sacrifices voluntarily. Its a basic and very simple point.

[uncle_monty]

Forgive me for returning to the original topic but being a resident in the extended congestion charge zone I felt I ought to pipe up. I think we need to look past the fact that it's poor folk who are going to suffer from the £8 charge. It is galling that the rich, to whom this charge won't even register, will be the only ones who can afford to drive around Kensington and Notting Hill but this gradual exodus from private transport has to start somewhere.

I've recently started to cycle into the City cos the journey on the Central Line to Bank used to leave me feeling tired and pugnacious. I arrive at my desk now feeling invigorated and buzzing AND I save £80 a month I realise it's not something that every one can do but if you can, you should.

Cycling is the ideal way for mobile people to get across London. Also, walking is advisable (London really isn't that big). It would also bring a new appreciation of the capital to satelite workers who's only experience of London is their train/tube station, the local work boozer, covent garden, oxford street and leicester square.

[Justice]

An exciting development. Maybe there is hope. However, do you think Jeremy Clarkson will voluntarily buy one? No, didn't think so. That's why we need the government to employ the carrot and the stick. Punitive petrol duties and £ per mile levy on petrol journeys. Tax breaks on wonder cars such as this electric dragster.

We as a nation and a species will not move unless forced to.

Yes but it's all stick and no carrot and thats why our MP's are all flying around the place on our taxes.

Problom

Reaction

Solution but the solution is not realy connected to the problom it's all about filling pockets of the MP's

do you think the M25 first gear solution is working ! well it is for MP's as they get even more petrol tax and want to keep it that way even if it's killing the planet.

put taxes up for them that guzzel fule and reduce it for them that don't but do you see any of the reducing going on here, didn't think so.

[uncle_monty]

Yes but it's all stick and no carrot and thats why our MP's are all flying around the place on our taxes.

Problom

Reaction

Solution but the solution is not realy connected to the problom it's all about filling pockets of the MP's

do you think the M25 first gear solution is working ! well it is for MP's as they get even more petrol tax and want to keep it that way even if it's killing the planet.

put taxes up for them that guzzel fule and reduce it for them that don't but do you see any of the reducing going on here, didn't think so.

Yes. Wooly (or is that cynical?) thinking from our so-called political leadrs of all hues.

[Pluto]

Yes. Wooly (or is that cynical?) thinking from our so-called political leadrs of all hues.

Getting back on topic here for a moment. Did anyone read the front page of the Times today. It has an article about gangs in South London. As I said before, look out for an increase in crime in the Capital.

[uncle_monty]

Getting back on topic here for a moment. Did anyone read the front page of the Times today. It has an article about gangs in South London. As I said before, look out for an increase in crime in the Capital.

Looking at the story now. I know you're very down on London, but have we not seen crime increase across the country? Criminals will always concentrate in London (given the scope of rewards available for the services they provide), but you can't ignore the fact that modern life has become more violent. Birmingham, Manchester , etc. are no picnic if you wander in the wrong areas.

[libspero]

Unless I'm being very dense I think everybody is missing the point here.. this has nothing to do with saving the planet, this is purely for the purpose of generating revenue and decreasing congestion.

as I posted before..

"The OECD also urged Britain to implement controversial reforms, including road pricing, arguing that the country badly needs to improve infrastructure, particularly in transport."

Found here

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle1381629.ece

Personally I find the idea of reducing congestion by way of pricing everybody off the road a completely pointless exercise.. it is really just imobilising the poor, making it harder for them to get better jobs, meaning they stay poorer so they can afford to travel less... etc.. etc... Rubbish.

[uncle_monty]

Unless I'm being very dense I think everybody is missing the point here.. this has nothing to do with saving the planet, this is purely for the purpose of generating revenue and decreasing congestion.

as I posted before..

"The OECD also urged Britain to implement controversial reforms, including road pricing, arguing that the country badly needs to improve infrastructure, particularly in transport."

Found here

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle1381629.ece

Personally I find the idea of reducing congestion by way of pricing everybody off the road a completely pointless exercise.. it is really just imobilising the poor, making it harder for them to get better jobs, meaning they stay poorer so they can afford to travel less... etc.. etc... Rubbish.

There a re multiple layers of argument here. Discussion has moved between this road charging policy and its effect on Londoners to more generic discussions on the environment. This particular policy looks like Nu Labour profiteering, but we will have to see a similar policy in the future in order to wean us off environmentally damaging activities.

[Pluto]

Looking at the story now. I know you're very down on London, but have we not seen crime increase across the country? Criminals will always concentrate in London (given the scope of rewards available for the services they provide), but you can't ignore the fact that modern life has become more violent. Birmingham, Manchester , etc. are no picnic if you wander in the wrong areas.

No, I am negative on all big cities. I think they are not sustainable due to lack of work and resources. In the future the ideal places to live will be near where drinkable water and food is.

[uncle_monty]

No, I am negative on all big cities. I think they are not sustainable due to lack of work and resources. In the future the ideal places to live will be near where drinkable water and food is.

I think we are in agreement there in the long term. Not wishing to be flippant, but I now have to manouevre myself near some drinkable water (and hops combined in a pint) and food (some crisps).

A pleasant weekend to you, sir.

[tenroom]

Well I've lived here all my 40 years and still love it. If I moved, it'd have to be to another country as I don't think the rest of the UK has uch to offer me other than sleepy villages, shops that resolutely refuse to open later than 6pm and worse public transport than London.

I was thinking . . . hmm. . . Paris . . . .

[steve99]

Not really.

Do you really need a car living in inner London? I think not.

Not if you live in posh inner London, however if like most of Londons residents who live outside the centre you are often trapped without a car, try going 5 miles sideways from the mid suburbs, its either 3 buses and 2 hrs or a major treck to the middle and out again by tube + 2 long walks, car = 30 min , also used to get out of the place at the weekends, train would be good but far too expensive, and takes an hour for most to get to the big station before you even go anywhere.

As for the tagging, I suspect much of this is to do with the reducing levels of oil we can expect over the comming years by putting people off cars alltogether, not something officialdom will admit to and nor will the press take it up as an issue, Im convinced this issue in on the governments 'censored list' as far as the press is concerned.