Yorkshire Prices

[Boom'n'Bust]

Have a look at this from Sheffield - shurley shum mishtake...

"The property market in Sheffield and the surrounding villages has changed from a buyers to a sellers, prices are on the increase and if you leave it too long your next step on the property ladder may well be out of reach"

http://www.bloorandco.com/

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you believe whatever a bunch of loser EA's tell you?

[PrincessPatience]

Quokka, I would like to think the market has peaked around here (sorry dont know how to do the quote thing!) , It appears to me that the cheaper properties are still moving but the more expensive properties seem to be sticking. I have seen quite a lot of price reductions around. I was talking to an EA a few months ago that told me our area has its own housing market that is not dictated by national trends (Yeah right!) Personally, we have a plan to wait three years before trying to buy (again!). I dont really like renting but i am hoping that the best things come to those who wait!

[Too expensive to trade up]

More from the Halifax Courier. 400 flats for Elland if planning permission is given

http://www.halifaxtoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2...ticleID=1050718

Interesting quotes include "We have a lot of unsold mill apartments already" and "Valley Mill [again in Elland] has sold around a quarter of its apartments before development had finished." i.e. the company is trying to build another 400 flats even though they can't sell the ones a mile down the road.

Can anyone see where this is heading

Edited June 9, 2005 by Too expensive to trade up

[urban_hymn]

The firm I work for are hopeful of securing the contract for a multi-storey block of apartments on Gotts Road in Leeds round the back of the Yorkshire Post building near the canal.

We've just finished building 450 of them in the same location (one third unsold) and now it looks like we'll be building hundreds more.

Extrapolating from what I know about my firm there must be tens of thousands of "lifestyle" type apartments still to be built in the UK, too late to pull out of.

There will inevitably be some sort of repercussion from this level of flat building but I'm not sure what it will be?

My firm works in other sectors of the construction industry so I am not sweating about any downturn just yet but 2007 onwards will be very interesting in the building industry.

Does anybody know the City Island development on Gotts Road - how is it perceived by locals? Would be curious to know.

[Catch22]

I'm sure the market has peaked in my area and that happened late summer 2004.

I've been watching properties in the 250/300K range. This price range has been really sticky, whilst lower price range properties on agents web sites, show quite a few with SSTC. But they have been on the site for months and months and months and months....get the picture.

4 bed stone built detached 285K in March, April it was O.O. 275K, then 260K then 250K end of April, went to offer accepted for a week than back to "for sale" now its reduced to 245K.

3 bed stone built detached March was 250K, then 240K, now on at 225K.

I watch the market because I'm interested how it unfolds. If I was looking at the market because I was thinking of buying, then I would not be posting here for two years at the very least. But I suspect the bottom could in reality be 2010 or thereabouts.

Step aside and keep your deposit dry.

Edited June 9, 2005 by Catch22

[Take me to the cleaners]

Just checked the latest numbers on ouproperty.co.uk for the area in Leeds where I live - April 2004 the number of properties sold in LS8 was 121. April 2004 the number of properties sold is 21. A number of estate agents have opened up recently in Street Lane - how will they survive. They are competing with the estate agents in oakwood and Harehills. Big problems ahead me thinks.

[No Muggy Bear]

The firm I work for are hopeful of securing the contract for a multi-storey block of apartments on Gotts Road in Leeds round the back of the Yorkshire Post building near the canal.

We've just finished building 450 of them in the same location (one third unsold) and now it looks like we'll be building hundreds more.

Extrapolating from what I know about my firm there must be tens of thousands of "lifestyle" type apartments still to be built in the UK, too late to pull out of.

There will inevitably be some sort of repercussion from this level of flat building but I'm not sure what it will be?

My firm works in other sectors of the construction industry so I am not sweating about any downturn just yet but 2007 onwards will be very interesting in the building industry.

Does anybody know the City Island development on Gotts Road - how is it perceived by locals?  Would be curious to know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Personally, I think a lot of these new builds will be council owned, or at least bought by monkeys trying to ramp up their portfolios. Wouldn't touch these with a barge pole personally speaking. They are fine to rent. but talking from a personal experience, these kind of properties are suitable only as a transitional phase in your life. ie: Cool when you are 20-30. Not so cool when you have got kids and the people next door are snorting coke out on the balcony. Just my opinion!

[PrincessPatience]

I'm sure the market has peaked in my area and that happened late summer 2004.

I've been watching properties in the 250/300K range. This price range has been really sticky, whilst lower price range properties on agents web sites, show quite a few with SSTC. But they have been on the site for months and months and months and months....get the picture. 

4 bed stone built detached 285K in March, April it was O.O. 175K, then 260K then 250K end of April, went to offer accepted for a week than back to "for sale" now its reduced to 245K.

3 bed stone built detached March was 250K, then 240K, now on at 225K.

I watch the market  because I'm interested how it unfolds. If I was looking at the market because I was thinking of buying, then I would not be posting here for two years at the very least. But I suspect the bottom could in reality be 2010 or thereabouts.

Step aside and keep your deposit dry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bet i havent got this quote thing right, anyway, Catch 22 can you tell me why you think the bottom of the cycle is gonna be 2010? Despite my user name im hoping not to have to wait so long! i am interested to know what you and anyone else thinks? also has anyone else considered emigrating!?!

[PrincessPatience]

More from the Halifax Courier. 400 flats for Elland if planning permission is given

http://www.halifaxtoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2...ticleID=1050718

Interesting quotes include "We have a lot of unsold mill apartments already" and "Valley Mill [again in Elland] has sold around a quarter of its apartments before development had finished." i.e. the company is trying to build another 400 flats even though they can't sell the ones a mile down the road.

Can anyone see where this is heading 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My brother knows someone who works for an EA in Halifax and they are having real trouble shifting the glut of apartments currently for sale..madness!

[Catch22]

Bet i havent got this quote thing right, anyway, Catch 22 can you tell me why you think the bottom of the cycle is gonna be 2010? Despite my user name im hoping not to have to wait so long!    i am interested to know what you and anyone else thinks? also has anyone else considered emigrating!?!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Princess,

Look I'm like you, I'd love this overbought market to roll over in 18 months, but housing markets don't reverse and complete trends so quickly. The last up trend peak 89 bottomed in 95 = 5 to 6 years top to bottom. Then after consolidating at the lows it began another up trend circa 98 and peaked mid 04 = 9 years bottom to top. So all those new to the market in the past ten years, have only experienced raising prices, or very small corrections that quickly reversed upwards. Hence they don't believe prices can fall, but they are about to find out.

For the reasons stated above to many people are living in hope, hence the refusal to reduce prices. But once negative sentiment becomes the dominant sentiment , prices could move down pretty fast within two years or so, with the biggest price drops possibly taking place within that time frame. That would take us to mid late 2008, besides 2010 is only 4.5 years away

But lets be honest no one knows for sure how it will all pan out.

Look at our economy, what have we got besides the City, an armaments industry selling to the DIY market or doing big arms and manpower missions for the oil industry. Oh we shift a bit of Scotch whisky and Scottish biscuits, and we are quite big in chalk I hear. But the biggest thing we export are empty containers, so without a strong economy going forward, why and how do we support a housing market marked up at a premium.

Edited June 9, 2005 by Catch22

[woof]

An interesting snippet in today's York Evening Press regarding the redevelopment of the Barbican Centre, a leisure complex whose planned redevelopment is facing a legal challenge:

Mr Justice Elias had been told that any further delay could stymie the whole project, which includes 240 apartments, a hotel, conference facilities, a refurbishment of the auditorium and a replacement swimming pool.

"It's getting marginal," said David Forsdick, for Barbican Venture (York) Ltd.

Referring to a fall in the property market and above-inflation rises in construction costs, he said: "Any additional delay could be the straw that breaks the camel's back."

He revealed that a housebuilder had offered £12 million for the residential element of the scheme last summer, but the offer had been reduced last month to only £7.3 million.

So that's a 40% drop in the value of these flats to the developer compared to what they thought less than a year ago. Far more telling than any VI spin about where some people really believe the market is heading.

[Boom'n'Bust]

As you'll all know, RISC has published news:

PROPERTY MARKET FALLING

Chartered surveyors are reporting the highest levels of house price falls since the 1990s property crash, a survey has shown.

The Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors said 49% more of its members reported prices fell in May than those who thought they rose.

It is the highest proportion of surveyors to report a drop in the value of property since November 1992, the height of the last house price crash.

Spokesman Jermey Leaf said: "The froth has come off the market. Choosy buyers can now afford to bide their time."

At the same time the group said the increase in the number of buyers looking for a new home had petered out since the beginning of the year.

Sales were also running at levels which were around 29% lower than during the same period of 2004, according to its report.

Meanwhile, the number of homes being put up for sale continued to rise at a firm pace, leading to surveyors having around 25% more unsold properties on their books than they did a year ago.

The group said Scotland was the only region across Britain where prices were continuing to rise.

The biggest price falls were seen in the Midlands and Yorkshire and Humberside, while the pace of falls also increased in London.

But despite the gloomy figures, confidence among surveyors is at its highest level since November last year.

RICS said its members expected sales to pick up going forward as interest rates peaked and possibly fell.

Well this is good news all round especially for FTB's in yorkshire who have been struggling to get on the property ladder. I hope we can all contribute to this good news by posting any info good or bad about yorkshire in order to see the bigger picture...KEEP IT UP!

Edited June 14, 2005 by Boom'n'Bust

[lisa]

A really simple way that found to get information on housing prices in my area was to go to:

www.mouseprice.com/housepricecalculator.aspx

It's really useful as it gives info on growth of the different price brackets in your area.

Hope it saves you doing al the math manually.

Well I haven't updated this thread since mid January, so 3 months later I thought I had better share the bad news.

Average prices 3 months ago were £220k - they are now £233k - a 6% rise

Its fair to say there is a steady trend of increasing prices, in all price bands.

There is NO crash whatsoever near me and I can't see anything on the horizon that is going to cause one.

The things that I have noticed recently are:-

A small number of price reductions, mostly on property that was overvalued to start with - probably less than 5% of property falls into this category.

A much higher % of properties going on at higher than market average. In fact an even greater propensity to 'aspirationally' price. Hence making stuff sensibly priced to the market average look 'affordable'

Property is selling, but there is still more property being marketed than is selling, so stock is building up.

In my humble opinion - there is no crash and most of the HPC'ers are deceiving themselves. It will need higher IR's to cause a serious downturn and that isn't goign to happen to the degree necessary to cause a serious panic in the housing market.

Thoughts anyone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Boom'n'Bust]

nice one lisa

[eurows]

Prices have fallen all over. Anyone checking nethouseprices.co.uk can see so. I checked on a house that was for sale 12 months ago at 192,500 and has been sold again this year for £185,500.

That punter took a loss. I feel that anyone buying now will also take loses. Whats remarkable is people think that the housing market is different to any other market. Nothing keeps going up, it has to fall back down and then rise again. I have noticed that ea are pricing houses up more realistic and then they are being reduced on purchase which is a fall in prices whichever way you look at it. The person who does the four week survey in his area is fooling himself. His way of working out the prices is so inaccurate it is not worth thinking about.

The ODPM survey although late is the most accurate of surveys and does not spin the tale like the bank surveys. It notes a fall and we will probably see this happening throughout the year and into the next year.

I also feel that if the likes of Matalan (the discount end of the consumer market) is feeling the pinch and announcing job losses we havent seen the end of falls yet.

[Catch22]

Bit of info regards some of my wife's work colleagues:

Young guy in her office has been left some money by deceased grandfather. Enough for a deposit, good job because like most young folk these days he and his girlfriend only have debt, not savings. Anyway looked at 3 bed ex-council house in a village 'twixt" Skipton and Keighley, on at £135. Told agent they could only go to 105K, agent rings back and says the vendor will accept 105K. He likes it, she doesn't so who knows what will happen, I'll try and keep the board informed.

Another work colleagues mother and father are putting their house up with a local agent, again a 3 bed ex-council house [ small town twixt Skipton and Keighley] No central heating, shoud imagine its old fashioned but well cared for. Advised to put it on at 125K to sell at 115K, her mum and dad are not happy at the valuation or the expected selling price.

Comment:

135K vendor after having been on the market a fair bit, now had his illusions regards his properties perceived value well and truly shattered.

Agents pricing new entrants to reflect a market in retreat.

New vendors now getting the illusions shattered from the off.

VI's in the media create these illusions, but the Agents [going hungry] are having to teach vendors to face up to the reality of a market in retreat.

By the way the wife does not impart our views on the market to her work mates. One of the reasons being most people take in the VI view, and would look on her as an idiot, or just plain jealous !!!!!!! So its quite interesting to see the market panning out without it being "tainted" by that malicious site HPC

Edited June 15, 2005 by Catch22

[eurows]

Agents around the Huddersfield area are pricing the houses up 10% cheaaper than they were last year. Couple this with putting in an offer of 10% less and you have a 20% drop.

Is that right or have I missed something.

[Yorkshirelass]

Agents around the Huddersfield area are pricing the houses up 10% cheaaper than they were last year. Couple this with putting in an offer of 10% less and you have a 20% drop.

Is that right or have I missed something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good to see somebody else from Huddersfield here.

A house near me was sold last December for £55,000 and went back on the market a few weeks ago for £97,500 (no work at all has been done to the property). Hopefully this is an exception and house prices in general will continue to fall.

[PrincessPatience]

Good to see somebody else from Huddersfield here.

A house near me was sold last December for £55,000 and went back on the market a few weeks ago for £97,500 (no work at all has been done to the property). Hopefully this is an exception and house prices in general will continue to fall.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Yorkshire Lass, Im from Halifax so not too far away. I think the EAs around our area are just taking a lucky guess at pricing properties (bet they have a tombola in the office!), keep an eye on the one you mentioned to see if it sells, I have seen two houses for sale of identical size next door to each other both look about the same in terms of condition etc, one is up at £89k and the other at £120K were is the logic in that?!! I have also noticed alot of houses going on the market with more than one EA, is this a sign of desperate times?

[737]

I'm keenly watching prices in Holmfirth and surrounds and though they seemed to drop back a little from their highs in July/Aug the cabal of five agents who sell all the properties in the area seem to be doing a good job of holding prices at last years levels. That's even though turnover seems to be absolutely dire according to rightmove.co.uk .

I noticed a possible increase in ther number for rent recently, though this may well be seasonable!

[eurows]

I too am from Holmfirth. I recently contacted one ea enquiring abut a house and they told me on average buyers were asking for 10% off the asking price and this is on top of a reduction in prices. Look at the Examiner Job day and you cannot believe the amount of new and reduced houses on the market.

Things are dire but the VI are talking it up.

[Beadbo]

Hi folks,

In Leeds though the amount of sales is 50% down Q1 compared to Q12004, EAs/vendors for the main still stubbornly keeping asking prices as high as last year though some houses are finally seeing some reductions. Floods of newbuild indentikit 2bed newbuild flats are coming onto the market, some in LS16 in the same block varying wildly in asking price from £189k-£220k, town centre ones £139k-£199k for a 2 bed. Lots of identical ok done out 2 bed flats (converted council homes)in good locations in LS17 and LS16 which have been £120-£124 for the last 9 months or so have finally moved down a touch in price from £115k-£120K I don't know if these are the same flats reduced or new ones come on the market as they all look the same and theres quite a lot of them, but they have been fetching up to £120k til recently so I think it's a good sign that houseprices going down...hope we are not in for too long a wait tho...

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-635...a_n=1&tr_t=buy7

http://212.50.188.108/cgi-win/vebra.cgi?de...8/SANDR/57230/8

[eurows]

I was driving through chapel allerton on the way to Harrogate and could not believe the amount of flat for sale signs on the market. The same is true in harrogate going towards knaresborough.

Surely somethings got to give with flats first. They are building tons and cannot sell or rent them.

I would deffinately not want a flat at the moment.

[lisa]

nice one lisa

Hi Boom'n' Bust,

Found another pool of Yorkshire information and thought of you!

Analysis of North Yorkshire Property Market

Enjoy...

[737]

I too am from Holmfirth. I recently contacted one ea enquiring abut a house and they told me on average buyers were asking for 10% off the asking price and this is on top of a reduction in prices. Look at the Examiner Job day and you cannot believe the amount of new and reduced houses on the market.

Things are dire but the VI are talking it up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi neighbour Nice to see someone else from Holmfirth.

In the last two booms Holmfirth was one of the last places for prices to rise and one of the first to fall. Might be a little different this time though as the EAs seem more 'organised' and the demographics have changed. Now they've closed most of the manufacturing down the population seems to be made up of professionals, employed by various government agencies, commuting to Leeds, Sheffield and Manchester.

Nothing expensive is moving locally but the EAs are still pricing as if they are!

Edited June 22, 2005 by 737