Guest muttley Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jh.../ixopinion.html Boris is having a rant The awful truth was that I really had no one to blame but myself (I think my wife had pointed out the idiocy of the investment), and the same, alas, was true of the man who had come to see me. He was one of those who had invested in a shared appreciation mortgage, a scheme which the banks briefly and tantalisingly placed on the market between 1996 and 1998, and then whisked away like street pedlars surprised by the police; but not before they had persuaded 15,000 people to fall for a beautiful sting, which has allowed them to fleece, and to keep fleecing, their mainly elderly prey like a vast flock of muddled old ewes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
right_freds_dead Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 i cant make sense of this. his approach foppish. his experience. different. despite them all riding girly bikes they are not in touch with the working man on a mondeo. hes up to his neck in it i hear. i think. i see. but yet i havent seen them pay the pain. are they lending more to starve us out in a war of financial attrition. each house soldier cut down my vested machine gun or bbc landmine. there is a man in our pub who was in ww2 and he said. "worzel'. it took us ages to work out he was saying 'war is hell' in a local accent. all the same. keep it in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinipaul Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 wish I could vote Boris for PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smell the Fear Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 wish I could vote Boris for PM That's just because he reminds you of the sixth former who bummed you when you started public school. Time and therapy will heal you, don't worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
right_freds_dead Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 id possibly vote for him if he meant it. hes sort of human. in a way. and he does speak his mind. and often its the truth no one wants to hear. and thats refreshing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinipaul Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 he does speak his mind. and often its the truth no one wants to hear. and thats refreshing. exactly, and I'd say that's pretty important too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
right_freds_dead Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 its an asset thats missing from british politics at the moment. you know he couldnt keep quiet about some global blag that was going down. if there WAS a meteor coming in 2026 then hed blow it and leak it out in a foppish clumsy manner. by accident or on that show. or wed be able to guess from the look on his face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bart of Darkness Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 He's one of the few individuals in modern UK politics. Not sure I'd want him as PM though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightytharg Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I always though Boris was O.K. but I changed my mind after reading the article. Why does he want us to throw our money away on these greedy old folk. The old man with the house made a healthy profit of over 30 grand at the expense of our generation. And we should all work longer to give handouts to these guys that invested in the wrong pension scheme? Dopey idea if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spline Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Why does he want us to throw our money away on these greedy old folk. The old man with the house made a healthy profit of over 30 grand at the expense of our generation. In 1997 the SAMS mortgage was a bet on a continuing HPC, or at least a bet against a recovery. The cost? That would be 3/4 of any house price increase (plus, of course, the initial loan) in return for MEWing a 1/4 of the original house value. Potentially "free money" if prices stagnated for a decade; and if prices went up, well, the equity would cover the bill, wouldn't it? Still, quite a nasty shock to discover prices had gone up so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frugalista Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Boris -- like him as a character -- disagree with his politics. Once found myself next to him at the traffic lights, near the palace of Westminster both on our bikes. When the green light came he couldn't get much acceleration going on that old boneshaker that he rides so I zoomed off leaving him in the dust.... heheh. Anyway, in this case he makes a damn good point, which is that a diverse sprouting of exotic mortgages has proliferated out of the fertile compost of lending deregulation. Most of these are far too complicated for most peoples' needs. All that happens is people get confused by the maths and fall for the conjuring trick played by the bank. There should be a fixed set of types mortgages allowed, to cover maybe half a dozen kinds of borrower. That's it. Anything else should be banned (or at the very least be extremely strictly regulated, with several IFAs having to sign off that the person understands the terms). Sometimes "free market" just means "freedom to rip people off". Its all very well to say that people should do their own research but not everyone has the skills, and most people need to get a mortgage at some point. This is why point number 1 in the frugalista party manifesto is Regulate Mortgage Lending. frugalista Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deus ex machina Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I always though Boris was O.K. but I changed my mind after reading the article. Why does he want us to throw our money away on these greedy old folk. The old man with the house made a healthy profit of over 30 grand at the expense of our generation. And we should all work longer to give handouts to these guys that invested in the wrong pension scheme? Dopey idea if you ask me. If anyone needed more evidence confirming the view that youth is wasted on the young then they need look no further than this miserable cretinous specimen's abject drivel. I am soooooo glad I have a final year index linked pension scheme and am relatively near to a retirement which will be entirely funded by the public purse. Life promises to be sweet and I assure you Tharg that I will savour every moment of it safe in the knowledge that you and your wretched ilk will be paying for it and when I do fall off the twig then you will continue to pay for my wife. And you know what the kicker is? You will NEVER have it so good. Enjoy, wage slave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyMe Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 You will NEVER have it so good The way things are going - debt levels, paying for everybody else's pension apart from their own, crumbling levels of returns from taxes paid you ought to be cautious that a following generation will have NOTHING TO LOSE from defaulting on obligations entered by a previous generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apom Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 If anyone needed more evidence confirming the view that youth is wasted on the young then they need look no further than this miserable cretinous specimen's abject drivel. I am soooooo glad I have a final year index linked pension scheme and am relatively near to a retirement which will be entirely funded by the public purse. Life promises to be sweet and I assure you Tharg that I will savour every moment of it safe in the knowledge that you and your wretched ilk will be paying for it and when I do fall off the twig then you will continue to pay for my wife. And you know what the kicker is? You will NEVER have it so good. Enjoy, wage slave. True, but as cruel as you are being my friend.. You will be dead, I will be still young and pretty.. Trade your wealth for my youth??? I wouldn't... would you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
non-FTBer Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 "In a nutshell, the shared appreciation mortgage allowed you to borrow 25 per cent of the value of your property at zero interest, provided you agreed to pay the bank, upon your death or sale of the house, 75 per cent of the appreciation in the price. Now you might think that the catch would be obvious to anyone with a vague knowledge of the English property market over the past 40 years. " THAT is a GREAT Product. Marvelous, wonderful. And I would grab it in a second, so long as the bank lenders would also take 75% of the downside exposure too. In fact, the banks that made these loans back then should be FORCED to offer such a product now, as poetic justice for their previous greed I'd take that too, assuming they'd expose themselves to the downside risk. I'd buy on the assumption that prices will fall no more than 40% (if I pick the right area/property). Knowing it will probably fall... then they can fund 75% of my 40% loss.... so If I buy for £200K today, and sell up in four years for £120K, then I've only lost £20K.... where do I sign up..... Only I suspect that they know the market and won't accept the downside risks... ho hum. Does anyone have any idea whether insurers are offering any products to cover (hedge) against falling HPs?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 It was a rip off, just like door to door salesmen selling a £100 pound vacuum cleaner for £2000 to a pensioner. The old chap unwittingly sold a long term call option on his property to the bank . Extremely cheap premium for the bank: difference between '97 loan rates and 0% on 25% of the property. Banks should be obliged to explain negative scenarios in such deals and obtain prooof that the client has understood the risks as they would have to if an individual engaged in options transactions I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest struthitsruth Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I know this is going to sound harsh, but no-one really need "unwittingly" enter into such a deal. Independant financial advice has always been available before signing on the dotted line. I agree with Boris that there but for the grace of God, we've all been foolish with a deal or two in our time, but in this and many cases like - it really is caveat emptor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I know this is going to sound harsh, but no-one really need "unwittingly" enter into such a deal. Independant financial advice has always been available before signing on the dotted line. I agree with Boris that there but for the grace of God, we've all been foolish with a deal or two in our time, but in this and many cases like - it really is caveat emptor I say unwittingly because i doubt he knew what a call option is. Well he does now. I seem to remember that individuals had to sign undertakings that they understood the risks in trading options before being allowed to proceed. Not sure it would have made a difference. But for goodness sake roughly £1200 (not sure what mortgage rates were at the time) for long term call on the property market is a steal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOD Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 ...you will continue to pay for my wife. Are you suggesting what I think you are suggesting about your wife's career? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Property Dreamer Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 If anyone needed more evidence confirming the view that youth is wasted on the young then they need look no further than this miserable cretinous specimen's abject drivel. I am soooooo glad I have a final year index linked pension scheme and am relatively near to a retirement which will be entirely funded by the public purse. Life promises to be sweet and I assure you Tharg that I will savour every moment of it safe in the knowledge that you and your wretched ilk will be paying for it and when I do fall off the twig then you will continue to pay for my wife. And you know what the kicker is? You will NEVER have it so good. Enjoy, wage slave. Sounds like someone is bitter that death is stalking. Enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Nice Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 If anyone needed more evidence confirming the view that youth is wasted on the young then they need look no further than this miserable cretinous specimen's abject drivel. I am soooooo glad I have a final year index linked pension scheme and am relatively near to a retirement which will be entirely funded by the public purse. Life promises to be sweet and I assure you Tharg that I will savour every moment of it safe in the knowledge that you and your wretched ilk will be paying for it and when I do fall off the twig then you will continue to pay for my wife. And you know what the kicker is? You will NEVER have it so good. Enjoy, wage slave. Oh dear. The fact is that you are old. Accept it and next time you bone your manky missis (if you can still get it up) try and concentrate on some young totty. Just like the one I will be hanging out the back of tonight. And i doubt even the specialist crowd would pay for your wife. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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