Sterlingjob Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Seems like free speech is ebbing away from us. Its steady erosion is noticeable, either in an upfront way, or in a host of 'mission creep' sort of ways. On the former, I noted a group of defectors from here left en masse to form their own site with the 'you can say what you like remit'. But having watched that one too, I can see that 10% of posters contribute to 90% of all posts and if they disagree with your views they will take you down with a variety of tactics. I watched them ruthlessly take down 2 posters. So, all that glitters is not gold....Its a bit of a vicious sort of place actually....and not worth the effort.. Anyway, hope this doesn't get me banned from here, just sharing some thoughts generally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Allegro Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 I understand why this site cuts off certain threads and they are perfectly within their rights to do so, it is a privately run website and they can do what they want. What worries me more is the self-censorship that seems widespread at the moment. A lot of MSM and online sources seem to be full of people desperately trying to convince themselves that certain groups have nothing to do with the problems we are facing and that to admit it even to oneself is a kind of thought-crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterlingjob Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 7 minutes ago, Austin Allegro said: I understand why this site cuts off certain threads and they are perfectly within their rights to do so, it is a privately run website and they can do what they want. What worries me more is the self-censorship that seems widespread at the moment. A lot of MSM and online sources seem to be full of people desperately trying to convince themselves that certain groups have nothing to do with the problems we are facing and that to admit it even to oneself is a kind of thought-crime. Yes, I agree with the sentiments you express re the privately owned bit, he who pays the piper calls the tune. But who is paying the piper? Whoever is paying the piper gets to cull free speech ... But, the so called free speech over at the other place is about collectively agreeing on a 'site group think ' and if you stray from that and or challenge the group elder thinking with anything insightful or new. They'll blitz it away with smut/jokes / or whatever they can use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterlingjob Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, hotairmail said: It's me I'm worried about most. I keep censoring myself. Actually I always have - in real life. I think anonymity has either been a 'good thing' for free speech or it has removed an essential patina of civility. I can't but help think that there is a 'Lord of the Flies' element to a free for all where no rules exist. As we have witnessed many times, into vacuums tread despotic psycopaths and bullies. Yes, very true, Pschopaths and bullies reign supreme over there, have a look at one of their threads where someone couldn't work out how to leave and asked for technical help on how to delete their account. Its become a free for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterlingjob Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 1 minute ago, hotairmail said: My comment is a general one, not pointed at any particular site. Pretty much all of those who went 'over there' I would rather they were still here. However, I can understand your point that the balance has perhaps been tilted in this particular case so variety is narrowed and then concentrated. I don't know, but it was certainly a fear that I had in the first place that actually stayed my hand in joining up in the first place. I wish them luck though, they will have to fight hard to ensure it becomes the site that most of them really want. I think it will disintegrate over there. Disappear up its own derriere. Some sort of limit probably needs to be put on daily postings, then the ones that dominate can be reigned in. If that happens then the more innovative thinkers can be given a chance. I agree with your comments about rules though. Without some dogma of respect and decency it falls apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterlingjob Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 12 minutes ago, hotairmail said: Burke: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflections_on_the_Revolution_in_France Very interesting, thank-you. As for what you say about self censorship, yes, I think its a widespread malaise now. I too run most things through a filter which in a more rightly ordered world, probably shouldn't be there. Or at least it would be governed by a more compassionate set of rules..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Allegro Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 39 minutes ago, Sterlingjob said: Yes, I agree with the sentiments you express re the privately owned bit, he who pays the piper calls the tune. But who is paying the piper? Whoever is paying the piper gets to cull free speech ... But, the so called free speech over at the other place is about collectively agreeing on a 'site group think ' and if you stray from that and or challenge the group elder thinking with anything insightful or new. They'll blitz it away with smut/jokes / or whatever they can use. In my experience it's best not to spend too much time on any one site, as these silly playground antics tend to develop. Still, at least things on here aren't as bad as they were a few years ago - long term readers may remember 'Bruno', a rather troubled individual who was eventually cautioned by the police for posting death threats to HPC members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterlingjob Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, Austin Allegro said: In my experience it's best not to spend too much time on any one site, as these silly playground antics tend to develop. Still, at least things on here aren't as bad as they were a few years ago - long term readers may remember 'Bruno', a rather troubled individual who was eventually cautioned by the police for posting death threats to HPC members. Blimey! I've only ever been a watcher for the most part but have kept up with the news and views on here. Not on F/B or Twitter as don't want to get bogged down with having my face in the 'phone. Was shocked by the split that occurred here when the a chunk split away. But have been taken aback enough to comment on it as the other site seems to be developing into worrying free for all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Sterlingjob said: Seems like free speech is ebbing away from us. Its steady erosion is noticeable, either in an upfront way, or in a host of 'mission creep' sort of ways. On the former, I noted a group of defectors from here left en masse to form their own site with the 'you can say what you like remit'. But having watched that one too, I can see that 10% of posters contribute to 90% of all posts and if they disagree with your views they will take you down with a variety of tactics. I watched them ruthlessly take down 2 posters. So, all that glitters is not gold....Its a bit of a vicious sort of place actually....and not worth the effort.. Anyway, hope this doesn't get me banned from here, just sharing some thoughts generally. Was this recently or years ago ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Allegro Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 52 minutes ago, Sterlingjob said: Blimey! I've only ever been a watcher for the most part but have kept up with the news and views on here. Not on F/B or Twitter as don't want to get bogged down with having my face in the 'phone. Was shocked by the split that occurred here when the a chunk split away. But have been taken aback enough to comment on it as the other site seems to be developing into worrying free for all! I seem to have missed this great schism. Are you allowed to say where they've gone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpectrumFX Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 2 hours ago, Sterlingjob said: Yes, I agree with the sentiments you express re the privately owned bit, he who pays the piper calls the tune. But who is paying the piper? Whoever is paying the piper gets to cull free speech ... But, the so called free speech over at the other place is about collectively agreeing on a 'site group think ' and if you stray from that and or challenge the group elder thinking with anything insightful or new. They'll blitz it away with smut/jokes / or whatever they can use. The horror! People using free speech to talk about what they want to talk about, rather than what you want them to talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Much quieter here these days.....kinda miss the banter and opinions, lots of different people with different views and ideologies some I agree with, some I most definitely don't, but as long as nobody is harmed, bullied or threatened can't see why not free to speak.....would be a sad place were feelings and non confrontational views can no longer be expressed for fear of upsetting someone who happens to think differently....people eh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledgehead Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 This is a site for renters and would-be buyers, btl-ers etc. You won't get a tenancy or mortgage unless you are of a certain age. The site allows you to hide your real world id. As with the other place, it is therefore impossible to be bullied unless you have ill-prepared arguments. A forum is a public place for discussing views. For testing opinion. You should only air opinions in public spaces that you have thought long and hard about. If you stand on speakers corner and declare everyone should be required to bathe in custard twice daily, expect to be mocked. If you propose a revolutionary but well though through proposition, you will be able to withstand any initial barracking with well reasoned responses. It's pretty simple really. If you think yourself bullied in an internet forum, it's probably just because you are disappointed in yourself for being ill prepared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Allegro Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Got it. Not quite sure what they're talking about on there that can't be discussed on here, though. There doesn't seem to be much mention of the 'M' word as far as I can see. (and I don't mean Methodists). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomcat Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 On the contrary. With all that has been going on recently, half of the content relates to the 'm' word. 33 minutes ago, Austin Allegro said: There doesn't seem to be much mention of the 'M' word as far as I can see. (and I don't mean Methodists). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 5 hours ago, Sterlingjob said: Yes, I agree with the sentiments you express re the privately owned bit, he who pays the piper calls the tune. But who is paying the piper? Whoever is paying the piper gets to cull free speech ... But, the so called free speech over at the other place is about collectively agreeing on a 'site group think ' and if you stray from that and or challenge the group elder thinking with anything insightful or new. They'll blitz it away with smut/jokes / or whatever they can use. What a load of shit As an example I called the 'Lion' "I'm Millwall" guy a **** and didn't get any flack for it Having looked into it even I think I was a bit hasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moderators Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 We are closing this thread down. Firstly because HPC is not a forum to complain about self perceived ill treatment on a breakaway site. We have no interest in this being published. We prefer to have an agreement whereby the admin of the other site does not miscall us and we don't miscall them. Seems fair to me. Sterlingjob has not been banned but will not be allowed to post material detrimental to other sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moderators Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 5 hours ago, hotairmail said: My comment is a general one, not pointed at any particular site. Pretty much all of those who went 'over there' I would rather they were still here. However, I can understand your point that the balance has perhaps been tilted in this particular case so variety is narrowed and then concentrated. I don't know, but it was certainly a fear that I had in the first place that actually stayed my hand in joining up in the first place. I wish them luck though, they will have to fight hard to ensure it becomes the site that most of them really want. I've actually tried leaving here twice since but have been ignored, as I thought I might stop posting altogether - but so much for that, thus far. Hotairmail your request was received by the moderators and passed to Fubra support who are the only ones who can delete accounts to the level you requested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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