Dodgy Charities

[gibbon]

Recently had dealings with a small charity, the director is a smug p**** so decided to check their accounts. First few paragraphs it states that there's no employees and no-one is paid a salary, thought that was pretty good. This isn't a charity which provides any value mind, think along the lines of a monthly African drumming group for left handed Buddhists.

Anyway they get hundreds of thousands from the local council for this useless activity in various grants but I couldn't figure out where all the money was going, until I got to the very last paragraph: "Trustee x and y invoice (90% of the charities income) for services rendered". No explaining what these services are, its literally just one sentence. Same thing every year. To me it just seems like a massive con to funnel money from the council directly into the trustees/directors bank accounts. Is it? Is this legal? Seems to me like this is using the charity for personal gain?

[spyguy]

Fcknoes. I say try raisiing it with the Charity commission but hey are a bunch of naive idiots.

My kids school gets this wierd group of Christians visiting.

I was curious so I had a look.

Its a big, self perpetuating bunch of happy clappies, who employ other happy clappies and get paid by the churches to do school outreach.

Laughable in that the woman who goes to my son's school is a total tnuc. Total nut. She cannot stand the kids interrupting or asking her questions. Totally unemployable elsewhere.

 

[dgul]

Many of the smaller charities are at least slightly dodgy.  I mean, 90% going out as 'services rendered' is pretty fraudulent, but what would be okay?  50%?  30%?  I'm reminded of the charities of old where pretty much no-one would get a wage -- these current things aren't charities IMO*.

Around here we've had a few instances of (IMO) a worse crime -- people collecting money on the street for a 'good cause' (children's cancer was the latest) where when you investigate they're not a charity at all, but are 'selling periodicals', where the periodical in question is the leaflets they're handing out.  The money 'donated' just seems to be to line pockets.  Absolutely despicable.

[They're 'selling periodicals' as this doesn't need a street traders licence.  They were in Newbury most recently, but they've been all around. I'm sure there are similar outfits around the country.]

[* I was on the board of a small charity for a few years.  I didn't even claim mileage to get to the meetings (about 50 miles away, so not insignificant), and neither did the rest of the board.  I used to think this was the normal way normal people interact with charities.  I might, however, just be a mug.]

[SarahBell]

Many charities have a closely linked trading arm to make life easier.
Easier for what? You know. Making money.

There are ways of taking a salary from a charitable company. Social enterprise companies. Different ways of setting them up.  Can still have a board of people to make decisions.
Have been thinking about it for one of my hobbies. 

[gibbon]

23 minutes ago, dgul said:

Many of the smaller charities are at least slightly dodgy.  I mean, 90% going out as 'services rendered' is pretty fraudulent, but what would be okay?  50%?  30%?  I'm reminded of the charities of old where pretty much no-one would get a wage -- these current things aren't charities IMO.

Around here we've had a few instances of (IMO) a worse crime -- people collecting money on the street for a 'good cause' (children's cancer was the latest) where when you investigate they're not a charity at all, but are 'selling periodicals', where the periodical in question is the leaflets they're handing out.  The money 'donated' just seems to be to line pockets.  Absolutely despicable.

Looked at each years accounts, lowest amount these two trustees took was 50% of the charities income and the highest was 83%. I also think they both live together. Anyone know where I might be able to track down the exact law (if there is one) on this? 

Near me the chuggers harass the lonely old people doing their shopping. All charities never heard of. Makes you wonder. Could imagine going to their offices and finding a few nice Mercs in car park.

 

23 minutes ago, SarahBell said:

Many charities have a closely linked trading arm to make life easier.
Easier for what? You know. Making money.

There are ways of taking a salary from a charitable company. Social enterprise companies. Different ways of setting them up.  Can still have a board of people to make decisions.
Have been thinking about it for one of my hobbies. 

Do you mean they have a trading arm to do things which aren't above board? Trading arm invoices the the actual charity for "services rendered"?

[SarahBell]

3 minutes ago, gibbon said:

Do you mean they have a trading arm to do things which aren't above board? Trading arm invoices the the actual charity for "services rendered"?

 

Well the charity's trustees can't benefit from the charity, but they can benefit from a trading company at arms length with the same members, who spends all the charity money for them.
 

 

[MrPin]

Charities cannot make a "profit", but they can make a "surplus" which keeps the CEO's car going!

[The XYY Man]

2 hours ago, MrPin said:

Charities cannot make a "profit", but they can make a "surplus" which keeps the CEO's car going!

A mate of mine in the pub reckons the RNLI have such a surplus - and he claims it is several multiples of what they collect every year.

Their accounts are available on-line, but I don't understand all that shite, so reading it made no sense to me.

Interestingly though, their "CEO" - for want of a better description - is HM the Queen.

And I'm certain that keeping her particular fleet of cars going costs a right royal amount.

In fact, you could say it's probably a pretty penny Pinny...!

Wow! I amaze even myself sometimes. Check out the alliteration at the end of that sentence....

 

XYY

                                                                                                               

The dog's kennel is not the place to keep a sausage - Danish proverb

[MrPin]

WE see your alliteration, Poet Man!

Do not mock lifeboats! HMS Fishfinger, and the associated submarine HMS Saveloy (just the right shape) are putting ashore near a fast food shop soon!

[One-percent]

1 minute ago, The XYY Man said:

A mate of mine in the pub reckons the RNLI have such a surplus - and he claims it is several multiples of what they collect every year.

Their accounts are available on-line, but I don't understand all that shite, so reading it made no sense to me.

Interestingly though, their "CEO" - for want of a better description - is HM the Queen.

And I'm certain that keeping her particular fleet of cars going costs a right royal amount.

In fact, you could say it's probably a pretty penny Pinny...!

Wow! I amaze even myself sometimes. Check out the alliteration at the end of that sentence....

 

XYY

                                                                                                               

The dog's kennel is not the place to keep a sausage - Danish proverb

Yep I've also heard stories about rnli. They apparently have so much money that they constantly buy new kit.  The 'old' kit, such as top of the range outboard engines are given away to mates.   I also know of one person who seems to have never done an honest day's work in his life but seems to have made a very good living holding various posts in the local lifeboat station.  

I no longer give to ANY charity. Afaict, it is just a moneymaking exercise for connected or greedy bods 

[Sgt Hartman]

I hold most 'charities' in pretty low regard mainly because, 1) I simply don't trust them and, 2)They can be a pain in the backside.

Frankly, it gets on my tits walking down a high street, past shops that are boarded up because the rates were crippling for them while the f*cking Cats Protection League or some other such vendor of tat is going great guns with their voluntary staff and rates relief. 

Who knows? I might just be able to walk past these 'shops' without also being pestered by an aggressive hipster chugger who loudly proclaims that I am a right b*stard because I won't hand my bank details to some scruffy hippy who's approached me unbidden in the middle of the f*cking street demanding cash for some other countries balls-ups. 

And don't get me started on the earnest tosspots who turn up at my door around dinnertime at least twice a week with their, "Now I know what you're thinking..." spiel. Well, I was thinking about eating my dinner until you pair of perineums decided that seven in the evening was a good time to doorstep me for my bank details. Now f*ck off.

Might sound harsh but I have a lot of elderly customers and these people can and will, shamelessly rinse old folk for every penny they can guilt-trip out of them. The elderly are their bread and butter. I've seen it in action and it's bloody despicable. Once they get their hooks in they can be relentless.

F*ck 'em.

 

 

[One-percent]

4 minutes ago, Sgt Hartman said:

I hold most 'charities' in pretty low regard mainly because, 1) I simply don't trust them and, 2)They can be a pain in the backside.

Frankly, it gets on my tits walking down a high street, past shops that are boarded up because the rates were crippling for them while the f*cking Cats Protection League or some other such vendor of tat is going great guns with their voluntary staff and rates relief. 

Who knows? I might just be able to walk past these 'shops' without also being pestered by an aggressive hipster chugger who loudly proclaims that I am a right b*stard because I won't hand my bank details to some scruffy hippy who's approached me unbidden in the middle of the f*cking street demanding cash for some other countries balls-ups. 

And don't get me started on the earnest tosspots who turn up at my door around dinnertime at least twice a week with their, "Now I know what you're thinking..." speil. Well, I was thinking about eating my dinner until you pair of perineums decided that seven in the evening was a good time to doorstep me for my bank details. Now f*ck off.

Might sound harsh but I have a lot of elderly customers and these people can and will, shamelessly rinse old folk for every penny they can guilt-trip out of them. The elderly are their bread and butter. I've seen it in action and it's bloody despicable. Once they get their hooks in they can be relentless.

F*ck 'em.

 

 

Outstanding rant there sgt hartman.   I'm totally with you on this. My two offspring however not so much and give me much grief for not giving away my hard earned.  

[dgul]

22 minutes ago, One-percent said:

Outstanding rant there sgt hartman.   I'm totally with you on this. My two offspring however not so much and give me much grief for not giving away my hard earned.  

If I've got time I always stop and listen to their spiel.  It is always of interest to see who's after what money.  Sometime it is easy to argue against their simplistic views, as well, but not in a nasty way -- their arguments are seldom more than one-level deep (because they've only had a 30 minute training session for that charity*), so it isn't a fair game.

But the important thing is I never, ever give my details away to the chuggers.  I know that if I did, they'll take the first 12-24 months (or more) donation as their fee -- if I donate I want that money to go to the charity, not to some marketing co.  I delight in asking for details so that I can think about donating later.  If they push for my details then I make clear that I absolutely never, ever, give my details away on the street like that, and that I absolutely always sleep on a decision like that, no exceptions.  I love it when they say 'it's only £10 a month' or whatever, so I can look shocked and say 'that's £600 over a 5 year period -- hardly only'.  I love asking for a leaflet and then being incredulous when they don't have one (they seldom have one).  Anyway, I'll take the details away and have a look, check their accounts, that sort of thing.  If I'm swayed I might give a donation, might not.  Always a single donation.  If they can't cope with that and can only take a dd then I'm not interested.

Anyway, if everyone with a bit of spare time did this then the chuggers would disappear.  Their (the chuggers' parent company) perfect mark on the street is one that just says 'not interested' and moves on.  These people let the chugger know straight away that they won't get anywhere.  Their second favourite mark on the street is the one that donates, but they need the ones that aren't going to donate to walk away much more.  People who engage at length and then don't donate are their nightmare**.  

[* but far more time on the psychology of how to make sure that the person stays engaged, and on the mechanics of how to take the person's details.]

[** note that this doesn't work with Jehovah Witnesses.  They'll quite happily waste their time with you.] 

 

[MrPin]

Charity should be something you give, and not something taken!

[One-percent]

8 minutes ago, dgul said:

If I've got time I always stop and listen to their spiel.  It is always of interest to see who's after what money.  Sometime it is easy to argue against their simplistic views, as well, but not in a nasty way -- their arguments are seldom more than one-level deep (because they've only had a 30 minute training session for that charity*), so it isn't a fair game.

But the important thing is I never, ever give my details away to the chuggers.  I know that if I did, they'll take the first 12-24 months (or more) donation as their fee -- if I donate I want that money to go to the charity, not to some marketing co.  I delight in asking for details so that I can think about donating later.  If they push for my details then I make clear that I absolutely never, ever, give my details away on the street like that, and that I absolutely always sleep on a decision like that, no exceptions.  I love it when they say 'it's only £10 a month' or whatever, so I can look shocked and say 'that's £600 over a 5 year period -- hardly only'.  I love asking for a leaflet and then being incredulous when they don't have one (they seldom have one).  Anyway, I'll take the details away and have a look, check their accounts, that sort of thing.  If I'm swayed I might give a donation, might not.  Always a single donation.  If they can't cope with that and can only take a dd then I'm not interested.

Anyway, if everyone with a bit of spare time did this then the chuggers would disappear.  Their (the chuggers' parent company) perfect mark on the street is one that just says 'not interested' and moves on.  These people let the chugger know straight away that they won't get anywhere.  Their second favourite mark on the street is the one that donates, but they need the ones that aren't going to donate to walk away much more.  People who engage at length and then don't donate are their nightmare**.  

[* but far more time on the psychology of how to make sure that the person stays engaged, and on the mechanics of how to take the person's details.]

[** note that this doesn't work with Jehovah Witnesses.  They'll quite happily waste their time with you.] 

 

A sound approach if you have the time and inclination. I have neither which is why my standard response is no thanks.

if no one gave them anything, that would stop it dead

there is a donkey sanctuary in sidmouth Devon.  Apparently the local, spinsters and widows leave so much money to it that they don't know what to do with it 

[One-percent]

2 minutes ago, MrPin said:

Charity should be something you give, and not something taken!

It should also begin at home. 

[ChewingGrass]

I'm going to start a sheep charity to fund early retirement and will use pictures of cutesy lambs on the website and all my literature.

Much cuter than cats and dogs and will appeal to the vegetarian market, as long as I don't eat them.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

6 minutes ago, ChewingGrass said:

I'm going to start a sheep charity to fund early retirement and will use pictures of cutesy lambs on the website and all my literature.

Much cuter than cats and dogs and will appeal to the vegetarian market, as long as I don't eat them.

the vegetarians? bit harsh

[Sgt Hartman]

54 minutes ago, dgul said:

If I've got time I always stop and listen to their spiel.  It is always of interest to see who's after what money.  Sometime it is easy to argue against their simplistic views, as well, but not in a nasty way -- their arguments are seldom more than one-level deep (because they've only had a 30 minute training session for that charity*), so it isn't a fair game.

 

I'm not generally too arsey with them (though I personally find just rocking up at someone's door wanting personal details unacceptable) and I'll say no thanks if it's at a time where it's not too much of a hassle. 

If they show up when I'm putting the kids to bed or having dinner - i.e, 6:30 to 7:30- then I'll tell them what I think of their practises in no uncertain terms.

Also, if they get aggressive they'll be told to GTF. Mrs Hartman answered the door once to some guy who started aggressively putting the hard-sell on her when she said 'no thanks', not realising I was sat just around the corner in the front room (day off). His face, when I steamed over for a word, told me everything I needed to know about what they can get up to.

[One-percent]

7 minutes ago, ChewingGrass said:

I'm going to start a sheep charity to fund early retirement and will use pictures of cutesy lambs on the website and all my literature.

Much cuter than cats and dogs and will appeal to the vegetarian market, as long as I don't eat them.

Much more mileage in this than cats and dogs.  You can get the suckers to pay extra to own the wool of their adopted sheep. You can then charge to have it spun and then knitted into a jumper of their choice.  When they aren't looking, you can sell their sheep to the local abattoir. All sheep look the same.  They will never know. That'll be 20 percent for my consultancy fee.  

[ChewingGrass]

Frick, never had an idea that has not been milked before.

Fleecehaven - Charitable Sheep Sanctuary in North Devon

Wallace & Gromit Charity Shop

The competition is pretty amatuerish though, can't see Fleecehaven fleecing much out of anyone.

Could turn the wool into free range organic pink knitted hats for female SJWs at £50 a time, need to work on a cutesy lamb logo/brand.

 

[dgul]

16 minutes ago, One-percent said:

Much more mileage in this than cats and dogs.  You can get the suckers to pay extra to own the wool of their adopted sheep. You can then charge to have it spun and then knitted into a jumper of their choice.  When they aren't looking, you can sell their sheep to the local abattoir. All sheep look the same.  They will never know. That'll be 20 percent for my consultancy fee.  

And then you'll come across a charitable expert from mid-Wales and you'll be f*cked.

[ChewingGrass]

2 minutes ago, dgul said:

And then you'll come across a charitable expert from mid-Wales and you'll be f*cked.

Are Welsh charitable experts sexually agressive, just curious?

[ChewingGrass]

Just now, ChewingGrass said:

And then you'll come across a charitable expert from mid-Wales and you'll be f*cked.

Ah, got it, will watch out for customers with wellies.

[One-percent]

11 minutes ago, ChewingGrass said:

Ah, got it, will watch out for customers with wellies.

Ta, coz I didn't get it.  Now I have.