Rents Set To Go Through The Roof

[Fancypants]

LL,

Firstly, I am NOT taking sides and I am sorry if you have been asked this before but.....

WHY ARE YOU HERE?

I'm guessing that two words might be instructive here.

Highly. Geared.

and pardon me for speaking out of turn, but what is TTRTR in such a lather about? Am I to take it that his advice would be for me to buy NOW before rents shoot up? If so, I'll need a heck of a lot more convincing.

[Guest]

pardon me for speaking out of turn, but what is TTRTR in such a lather about?

Well, fancypants, I managed to miss this one too.

[London Landlady]

Do you rent anything with 2 or more people living there who aren't a couple?

Yes

[BusBuilder]

I attended a meeting on thursday evening, which I was paid to attend along with 9 other landlords. It was a research project run by NOP (I have no idea who they are) for the ODPM to find out how the government should inform landlords of the new laws re THA 2004 coming into force from April.

Amoung the other things that went on in the 2 hour discussion, the researcher passed around some prospective ads that might be placed in newspapers basically telling landlords 'no license, no property to rent'. The ads had pictures of buildings with missing parts to emphasise that flats/houses might exist, but they might not be legally lettable. I almost spat my dummy when I saw these ads. They were going far beyond what I've heard so far about HMO licensing.

Now in my opinion we've had a good run with an expanding BTL sector & therefore fairly stable rents, in some places falling, in others rising modestly.

But I reckon now we may be in for a turbulent 2006/2007 with the confusion causing the exodus of landlords that you lot have long predicted (but not for the reasons you have predicted) and IMO very large rent rises as people are forced to seek rentals from a lower supply.

You heard it here 1st.

TTRTR, I think you may be overstating the impact of these changes. I am sure most HMO landlords will find workable solutions to the new legislation.

It doesn't take much to change an HMO into a non HMO property (a change of the AST into one persons name who then may or may not decide to sub-let other rooms to friends and families is one easy way) and I am sure there are other cleverer ways of dealing with this unnecessary legislation.

Rental Deposits can simply become rent in advance (i.e. 8 weeks rent in adavance paid monthly etc).

As I don't let HMOs I'm not affected but I am confident this will not mean the disappearence of the HMO market (other than in name).

[North London Rent Girl]

Sell to who?

With this type of crackdown, who would be a willing buyer?

I don't want to blow your mind, TTRT, but to someone who wants to buy a home to live in!!!

[London Landlady]

LL,

Firstly, I am NOT taking sides and I am sorry if you have been asked this before but.....

WHY ARE YOU HERE?

I'm not saying your not welcome, in fact the opposite as I love a bit of heated debate and banter. I have been on this board since August and done about 350 posts, this is your stats.

Group: Trolls

Posts: 497

Joined: 9-November 05

Member No.: 3,469

Total Cumulative Posts 497

( 19.9 posts per day / 0.21% of total forum posts )

Most active in The main discussion forum on house prices

( 441 posts / 89% of this member's active posts )

THIS IS LESS THAN A MONTH!!!

Now I know that the majority of your posts are in response to provication or accusations but surely you must understand why people think there is a hidden agenda? I see that you are available for e-mail rather than PM - this would indicate a user that is not afraid to reveal themselves, which is in your favour.

ANYWAY - beside the point.

What do you post to this site for? Is it insight into the market? Are you Krusty Allcrap? Is it the fact that there are a lot of STR's and your touting for business? Are you a bored Estate/Letting Agent?

If it's any of the above then fine, your STILL welcome. Just try to explain what is your purpose on this site.

For reasons of fairness, here is why I am here.

I typed in masturbate and google thought I meant MASS DEBATE and it found this site (sorry, just jesting)

Seriously though, the main attration was the blog! I was seen thing reported that I was NOT seeing in the mainstream press. This opened my eyes to the selective reporting and NANNY STATE that we now live in. I was pissed of with everyone moaning about HPI (myself included) and thought, how are they going higher - they're getting a joke! When I came here - I learnt A LOT!! Things on this site cover legalities, new reforms/legislation, finance. anecdotes, uncovers "DODGY" figures and does it all with a VALID EXPLANATION. Not just - there is gonna be a house price crash - so there!

I am not having a go at you, I am genuinely interested in what HPC.co.uk has to offer a London Landlady.

TB

Hi thanks for your post - I don't have access to those stats about where I post.

Also, I don't have access to PM which would probably dispense with half my posts:)

Also, I probably accumulated 50-100 on the first couple of days when there was all the fuss about not being able to log in & getting classed as a Troll.

I get irritated by the contant jibes from people (including the moderators) but the only way to counter false accusatons is to reply.

Anyway, to answer your question about purpose - not really got one other that to try & provide a bit of balance (& sometimes humour?) in the discussions - it is not all doom & gloom especially relating to BTL. Also, i think the London market has turned - and it really is only my opinion.

I wouldn't have posted so much if it had not been for this stupid troll thing but that is water under the bridge. (ho ho very apt analogy!)

I am lucky to have the sort of occupation where I can join in discussions as I am PC based during most of the working day. As I work from home, I can also dip in at weekends or evenings but generally am too busy with family.

Hope this helps

[Elizabeth]

In terms of this thread - I am not really affected by it as I do not rent out HMO's.

Also, I think (not absolutely sure) that you will find that the legislation relates to properties more than 2 stories high i.e. 3 and over.

The efect (IMO) will be a load of rubbish properties being taken off the rental market - which no-one will want to buy. so, the price for rubbish properties will drop. No FTB on here has ever said they are looking to buy this type of property.

Location, Location, Location. I would be very happy to buy a 3 story fire trap in a good location for 1/2 the current cost - so long as it was in the right place. But you are right. I think the definition of rubbish needs to be spelt out:

Away from Public Transport. In areas of high social problems / antisocial behaviour. In places with bad councils that don't even bother to clean up the streets. Close to markets and other vermin attracting activities. Close to industrial areas. Away from shopping facilities and other amenities. Away from provision of parklands. (sounds like your typical second hand share-buy in fact!)

Actually I don't think this will be stamped out. It will just go underground and dodgy landlords will just pack these places to the roof with illegal immigrants like they have always done.

[Time to raise the rents.]

Yes

Then the same management regulations for large HMO's affect you.

That means fire doors, sophisticated smoke detection for the whole building, you potentially being called upon to deal with anti-social acts at the property by your tenants.

Worst of all, if you don't bother with following the new management regulations, you are liable to criminal prosecution. Try getting a mortgage with that hanging around your neck.

Suffice to say tons of people will just carry on as usual oblivious to the law. But 2 things may happen that affect them regardless:

1/ The banks may call in the loans if the govt gets out of hand in taking over properties from landlords.

2/ If someone is hurt in your property & you've ignored the new regulations, you will feel the full force of the law.

Remember ignorance is no defence in law.

[Guest Charlie The Tramp]

Then the same management regulations for large HMO's affect you.

That means fire doors, sophisticated smoke detection for the whole building, you potentially being called upon to deal with anti-social acts at the property by your tenants.

Worst of all, if you don't bother with following the new management regulations, you are liable to criminal prosecution. Try getting a mortgage with that hanging around your neck.

Suffice to say tons of people will just carry on as usual oblivious to the law. But 2 things may happen that affect them regardless:

1/ The banks may call in the loans if the govt gets out of hand in taking over properties from landlords.

2/ If someone is hurt in your property & you've ignored the new regulations, you will feel the full force of the law.

Remember ignorance is no defence in law.

TTRTR I find this very interesting, about 6 years ago friends of mine let out a deceased parent`s house to three students attending the ELU.

They had to carry out the requirements you have stated above after inspections by both a Fire Officer and a LA Representative, who both warned them of serious repercussions if they failed to carry out the recommendations before allowing the students to occupy the premises.

I would agree this could have been different legislation in their case.

[Time to raise the rents.]

TTRTR, I think you may be overstating the impact of these changes. I am sure most HMO landlords will find workable solutions to the new legislation.

It doesn't take much to change an HMO into a non HMO property (a change of the AST into one persons name who then may or may not decide to sub-let other rooms to friends and families is one easy way) and I am sure there are other cleverer ways of dealing with this unnecessary legislation.

Rental Deposits can simply become rent in advance (i.e. 8 weeks rent in adavance paid monthly etc).

As I don't let HMOs I'm not affected but I am confident this will not mean the disappearence of the HMO market (other than in name).

I think that oversimplifies landlords attitudes. Doing that would be like allowing free rein over the house by all not on the contract. And how will you get the squatters out when the contacted person leaves?

What you've suggested would amount to an active resistance of the new laws. That's what gets people noticed & in trouble.

And I also don't see a disappearance of supply altogether. But places housing excessive numbers of people will be forced by the council to get some of them to leave. Others will reduce the numbers in the house to 4 or less to avoid licensing. Others will choose to sell up or to not purchase anymore qualifying properties.

All this amounts to a reduction in supply at the bottom end of the market, forcing tenants to squeeze each other a rung or two up the rental market & therefore having to pay more.

TTRTR I find this very interesting, about 6 years ago friends of mine let out a deceased parent`s house to three students attending the ELU.

They had to carry out the requirements you have stated above after inspections by both a Fire Officer and a LA Representative, who both warned them of serious repercussions if they failed to carry out the recommendations before allowing the students to occupy the premises.

I would agree this could have been different legislation in their case.

What prompted them to invite the council around?

[Guest Charlie The Tramp]

What prompted them to invite the council around?

They replied to an advert in the local rag asking for urgent student accommodation.

Eventually paid 3k to carry out the requirements and let to students for three years, selling the property two years ago.

[Time to raise the rents.]

I'm trying right now to get my council to inspect my already occupied places in the hope that I can at least pay for the work through grant funding on offer.

I have to say I've come up against many barriers though, most of all is the council staff not understanding the implications of the new laws themselves.

The thing is that the grant funding is meant to be available until the end of March, but the laws don't come into force until April 6th. So unless they extend the grants, a lot of people are going to get caught with the expense.

[IP Newcomer]

Here TTRTR says that landlords are going to love low interest rates, yet on this thread landlords are going to have a boon from higher costs?

So lower landlord costs will drive up house prices while forced sellers will also drive up house prices?

[roblpm]

I have a BTL in Lambeth but:

What HMOs will Lambeth be licensing?

Initially, licensing in Lambeth will only apply to HMOs

that are three storeys high or greater, and where

there are five or more people sharing facilities.

So anyone with a two bedroom flat will be OK, for now. In the long run might have to get one. However I actually live in Edinburgh where this has been going on for ages and doesn't seem to have stopped the lettings market much!!

[Time to raise the rents.]

I have a BTL in Lambeth but:

What HMOs will Lambeth be licensing?

Initially, licensing in Lambeth will only apply to HMOs

that are three storeys high or greater, and where

there are five or more people sharing facilities.

So anyone with a two bedroom flat will be OK, for now. In the long run might have to get one. However I actually live in Edinburgh where this has been going on for ages and doesn't seem to have stopped the lettings market much!!

Yes & I guess you heard that all Scottish landlords have to register with the govt soon?

I've also heard that Scottish landlords of HMO's have simply ignored the rules there in many cases. I don't know this, but I wonder if it means the Scottish laws have less teeth than the English laws. Do you know?

[boom_and_bust]

Then the same management regulations for large HMO's affect you.

That means fire doors, sophisticated smoke detection for the whole building, you potentially being called upon to deal with anti-social acts at the property by your tenants.

Worst of all, if you don't bother with following the new management regulations, you are liable to criminal prosecution. Try getting a mortgage with that hanging around your neck.

Suffice to say tons of people will just carry on as usual oblivious to the law. But 2 things may happen that affect them regardless:

1/ The banks may call in the loans if the govt gets out of hand in taking over properties from landlords.

2/ If someone is hurt in your property & you've ignored the new regulations, you will feel the full force of the law.

Remember ignorance is no defence in law.

Hi,

Looking at all these regulations above, I have to say that I think it only really brings UK into line with other countries. Compared to Canada, France and Germany (countries I have enough experience of to make a comparison), the rental maket here is very substandard and unprofessional. It is just bringing us up in line with the standards and requirements of other places, particularly the wealthier EU nations. We are in a single market, we are expected to standardised quality and regulations. It is one of the better government policies as it will encourage the more effecient and professional landlords and so increase the quality of rental housing stock and the service provided by landlords. BTL is a service business just like any other service business in the private sector.

Boomer

[right_freds_dead]

ausing the exodus of landlords that you lot have long predicted (but not for the reasons you have predicted) and IMO very large rent rises as people are forced to seek rentals from a lower supply.

TTRTT: i rely on you to at least come up with a half measure of sense from the other side but this is flawed.

if landlords 'get out of their properties'

you actually mean 'sell them'

sell them to who ?

us, so we dont need to rent.

every sold rental takes one renting individual off the market.

this argument of yours makes no sense at all.

i think this regulations got a lot of little hitlers worried.

and rightly so.

[London Landlady]

......

And I also don't see a disappearance of supply altogether. But places housing excessive numbers of people will be forced by the council to get some of them to leave. Others will reduce the numbers in the house to 4 or less to avoid licensing. Others will choose to sell up or to not purchase anymore qualifying properties.

..............

I knew I didn't think that I was affected - mine are always rented out to 4 or less & I would imagine that most BTL's are in the same situation (given how many BTL's are 2 bed flats!

[Time to raise the rents.]

TTRTT: i rely on you to at least come up with a half measure of sense from the other side but this is flawed.

if landlords 'get out of their properties'

you actually mean 'sell them'

sell them to who ?

us, so we dont need to rent.

every sold rental takes one renting individual off the market.

this argument of yours makes no sense at all.

i think this regulations got a lot of little hitlers worried.

and rightly so.

Given that BTL makes up a large portion of the buying market & FTB's a small portion. Who will they be sold to if BTL buyers are put off by the new rules? And as I said, the advertising campaign clearly shows properties removed from the market altogether. ie rent them and face criminal prosecution. So the tenants will need to move out straight away, not when they save enough money to become FTB's.

I knew I didn't think that I was affected - mine are always rented out to 4 or less & I would imagine that most BTL's are in the same situation (given how many BTL's are 2 bed flats!

Didn't you see the bit where I said that you ARE affected by having to comply with the same rules, just that you won't need to be licensed?

[slapper slater]

RENTS ARE GOING TO SOAR......turn pink, grow small curly tails and go "Oink!"

[2005]

Given that BTL makes up a large portion of the buying market & FTB's a small portion. Who will they be sold to if BTL buyers are put off by the new rules?

They will be sold to FTB's

Who will drive the market down.

Markets do not stay static - they adjust to prevailing conditions.

[Time to raise the rents.]

Given that BTL makes up a large portion of the buying market & FTB's a small portion. Who will they be sold to if BTL buyers are put off by the new rules?

They will be sold to FTB's

Who will drive the market down.

Markets do not stay static - they adjust to prevailing conditions.

You lot live in a fantasy world. This website is proof of that.

How many tenants with no deposit would buy places for sale in a market saturated by selling landlords? Very few, they'd be left having to compete for the remaining rentals by bidding up the price.

And as for the Scottish example who've had licensing in place for a while now. How do we know that rents haven't soared there as a result?

[Guest The_Oldie]

You lot live in a fantasy world. This website is proof of that.

How many tenants with no deposit would buy places for sale in a market saturated by selling landlords? Very few, they'd be left having to compete for the remaining rentals by bidding up the price.

There you go again, assuming that everyone who rents is skint.

Many members of this site, who are currently renting, have large deposits sitting in the bank. Some have sufficient cash to buy outright when they decide the time is right.

[Mags]

Do you see the empty properties you are talking about.. that can't be rented...

what will happen to them??

Back on the market.. or does the landlord board the place up .. walk away.. and say.. that it was fun whilst i lasted....

I spoke to an empty housing officer about this who told me that they are aware of a major problem with property developers paying estate agents a retainer to tip them off when an empty property comes on the market - it doesn't get marketed, gets sold for a pittance to the developer who keeps it empty to reduce supply and increase demand. Apparently it can be worth their while doing that.

[2005]

You lot live in a fantasy world. This website is proof of that.

How many tenants with no deposit would buy places for sale in a market saturated by selling landlords?

Lots would.

The market gets saturated property from selling landlords which drives down prices until buying becomes cheaper than renting and then tenants buy rather than rent.

It's simply supply and demand - oversupply = falling prices.