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Time to raise the rents.

Rents Set To Go Through The Roof

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I attended a meeting on thursday evening, which I was paid to attend along with 9 other landlords. It was a research project run by NOP (I have no idea who they are) for the ODPM to find out how the government should inform landlords of the new laws re THA 2004 coming into force from April.

Amoung the other things that went on in the 2 hour discussion, the researcher passed around some prospective ads that might be placed in newspapers basically telling landlords 'no license, no property to rent'. The ads had pictures of buildings with missing parts to emphasise that flats/houses might exist, but they might not be legally lettable. I almost spat my dummy when I saw these ads. They were going far beyond what I've heard so far about HMO licensing.

Now in my opinion we've had a good run with an expanding BTL sector & therefore fairly stable rents, in some places falling, in others rising modestly.

But I reckon now we may be in for a turbulent 2006/2007 with the confusion causing the exodus of landlords that you lot have long predicted (but not for the reasons you have predicted) and IMO very large rent rises as people are forced to seek rentals from a lower supply.

You heard it here 1st.

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I attended a meeting on thursday evening, which I was paid to attend along with 9 other landlords. It was a research project run by NOP (I have no idea who they are) for the ODPM to find out how the government should inform landlords of the new laws re THA 2004 coming into force from April.

Amoung the other things that went on in the 2 hour discussion, the researcher passed around some prospective ads that might be placed in newspapers basically telling landlords 'no license, no property to rent'. The ads had pictures of buildings with missing parts to emphasise that flats/houses might exist, but they might not be legally lettable. I almost spat my dummy when I saw these ads. They were going far beyond what I've heard so far about HMO licensing.

Now in my opinion we've had a good run with an expanding BTL sector & therefore fairly stable rents, in some places falling, in others rising modestly.

But I reckon now we may be in for a turbulent 2006/2007 with the confusion causing the exodus of landlords that you lot have long predicted (but not for the reasons you have predicted) and IMO very large rent rises as people are forced to seek rentals from a lower supply.

You heard it here 1st.

Have you re-read the last part of your post? Please do not edit it as it should be pickled and protected for eternity. Even by your twisted logic that defies belief...

:P

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Rents, unlike purchases, are determined by the ability of renters to pay. With the UK economy heading south it seems that fewer people will have the ability to pay high rents than hitherto has been the case.

In this past HPI irresponsible lending has allowed borrowers to borrow well beyond the normal 3 to 4 times income. The rental market still demands renters show enough income to pay as they cannot rely on capital appreciation to bail them out of trouble.

Edited by Realistbear

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Is that not meltdown then?

Most BTl's sell, no one can buy, no one can rent unless

Just maybe...............

The prices come off a little to allow renters to buy.......

Now that may be the future!

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There may be a price adjustment, would tenants buy in a falling market and would they be able to save any money after having such substantial rent rises?

The advertising campaign I spoke of implies an awful lot of places simply off the rental market altogether. Where will you go when this happens? To the remaining lettable places where you will bid up the rent.

Mark my words.

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There may be a price adjustment, would tenants buy in a falling market and would they be able to save any money after having such substantial rent rises?

The advertising campaign I spoke of implies an awful lot of places simply off the rental market altogether. Where will you go when this happens? To the remaining lettable places where you will bid up the rent.

Mark my words.

You have to remember rents can only rise to the level of people's ability to pay. If the market outprices it self where do people go? To Social Services. A return to council housing en masse or RENT CONTROLS--the nemesis of all Landlords when demand outstrips supply and a social problem develops.

Time to unload properties I am afraid.

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The advertising campaign I spoke of implies an awful lot of places simply off the rental market altogether.

Surely they will then have to be sold, which means even more oversupply, which in turn means even lower prices.

I agree it sounds logical

Limpet

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Guest muttley

What's in the new legislation to make landlords so spooked? Why don't they just fill in the form and get the license?

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There may be a price adjustment, would tenants buy in a falling market and would they be able to save any money after having such substantial rent rises?

The advertising campaign I spoke of implies an awful lot of places simply off the rental market altogether. Where will you go when this happens? To the remaining lettable places where you will bid up the rent.

Mark my words.

why the hell would we pay it..

because we are good little souls..

Bless you...

Do you see the empty properties you are talking about.. that can't be rented...

what will happen to them??

Back on the market.. or does the landlord board the place up .. walk away.. and say.. that it was fun whilst i lasted....

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HMO is all about fire safety isn't it?

Presumably dodgy landlords will try to get round it by letting to "families" as its only if people are renting as individuals?

This'll probably affect crowded foreign workers accomdation but how will they find out about HMO? Will tenants have to come forward and say they're concerned about the property they live in? Can't see all landlords volunteering info.

Maybe it'll only affect honest landlords?

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You have to remember rents can only rise to the level of people's ability to pay. If the market outprices it self where do people go? To Social Services. A return to council housing en masse or RENT CONTROLS--the nemesis of all Landlords when demand outstrips supply and a social problem develops.

Time to unload properties I am afraid.

BS. Supply and Demand. Remove large amounts of the supply & the demand will bid up the remainder to bring back the supply.

Why do you think UK rents were so high in the past?

What's in the new legislation to make landlords so spooked? Why don't they just fill in the form and get the license?

One of the landlords in the room said he was forced by his local authority this year to make improvements that cost him £100,000.

Do you think many landlords will be able to come up with that sort of cash? It ain't just a form filling exercise.

Edited by Time to raise the rents.

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BS. Supply and Demand. Remove large amounts of the supply & the demand will bid up the remainder to bring back the supply.

Why do you think UK rents were so high in the past?

when were they so high..

also we don't want to rent.

there is no housing shortage at all.

too many BTL landlords pushed the prices up.

Now there are going to be BTL landlords having to either sell or leave empty.

If what you are saying happens.

you will get no more rent.

and there will be more houses for sale in a falling market.

can you argue this.. without sounding a little mad..?

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What's in the new legislation to make landlords so spooked? Why don't they just fill in the form and get the license?

Yeah, not sure on this - is it as someone else mentioned in another thread that the cash in hand brigade will be found out? How much are these things going to cost exactly? (I would personally like to see LL responsible for Council Tax, perhaps this is a step toward that.)

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But I reckon now we may be in for a turbulent 2006/2007 with the confusion causing the exodus of landlords that you lot have long predicted (but not for the reasons you have predicted)

Good, lots of forced sellers is always a good thing.

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Guest muttley

One of the landlords in the room said he was forced by his local authority this year to make improvements that cost him £100,000.

Do you think many landlords will be able to come up with that sort of cash? It ain't just a form filling exercise.

Knowing the pettiness of HM Governments local authority "bottom inspectors" you have my sympathy,TTRTR.But I don't see how it helps your cause.I can't see a bunch of evicted chemistry students and illegal immigrants reinvigourating the rental market.They'll just go back to Mum and Dad/Poland.

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Yeah, not sure on this - is it as someone else mentioned in another thread that the cash in hand brigade will be found out? How much are these things going to cost exactly? (I would personally like to see LL responsible for Council Tax, perhaps this is a step toward that.)

How much does a rent deposit scheme cost? NOTHING. The things they are trying to introduce here are very similar to what goes on in Australia. In NSW the rent deposit scheme not only pays for itself (the tribuneral and the money holding/managing) it actually draws a surplus that goes into the government coffers (hey, in the perfect world, LESS TAX). Why? Sound mad? Its because the amount of interest that the deposits collect is enough to run the system and more. At the moment landlords are getting interest on money they don't own... Better it be used to protect my rights in my opinion. Let 'em eat cake!

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Whatever happens the houses won't be empty - people can't afford to sit on empty houses. If they can't be rented anymore the price will fall as far as it needs to for the landlord to get a quick sale - the house won't sit there boarded up for years!

For the supply of rented accommodation to fall the proportion of owner occupied must rise. The only way that's going to happen is for the houses sell for significantly less than they do now. I would say that rents rising due to decreased supply can't happen UNTIL house prices have fallen far enough for currently rented house to sell to owner occupiers and the current renters to move out... at that point there'll be less demand for rented accommodation so prices won't actually increase at all! Funny old business.

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I attended a meeting on thursday evening, which I was paid to attend along with 9 other landlords. It was a research project run by NOP (I have no idea who they are) for the ODPM to find out how the government should inform landlords of the new laws re THA 2004 coming into force from April.

Amoung the other things that went on in the 2 hour discussion, the researcher passed around some prospective ads that might be placed in newspapers basically telling landlords 'no license, no property to rent'. The ads had pictures of buildings with missing parts to emphasise that flats/houses might exist, but they might not be legally lettable. I almost spat my dummy when I saw these ads. They were going far beyond what I've heard so far about HMO licensing.

Now in my opinion we've had a good run with an expanding BTL sector & therefore fairly stable rents, in some places falling, in others rising modestly.

But I reckon now we may be in for a turbulent 2006/2007 with the confusion causing the exodus of landlords that you lot have long predicted (but not for the reasons you have predicted) and IMO very large rent rises as people are forced to seek rentals from a lower supply.

You heard it here 1st.

Hi,

Doesn't sound impossible, guess we just have to see. I do think if it were to move that rapidly in the current market, with about the highest ever number of amateur investors in the market in history, that kind of dash for the door would cause a far bigger, far quicker fall in the market then anyone has so far predicted. I mean, you would be talking about something crazy like maybe 50% in a couple of years. I can't really see that happening. But again, who knows? Maybe you are right. We just have to see. But are you trying to convince other people as much as trying to convince yourself? This is something that anyone who has talked about HPC over the past year or two has found themself on the receiving end of. The figures have come along since to support the idea, you need to find a bit more ground evidence, maybe. It could be though, like HPC, time will prove you right or wrong. And there is nothing wrong with being wrong now and again. None of us are right all the time. We learn by making mistakes, that's why a pencil has an eraser! It's all natural and part of being human.

I also remember how people went to ground during the last crash, I remember the stories of 40 year old men, even families, moving back in with their parents for a year or two, taking back rooms off friends, renting caravans, river boats. Some wishing to just avoid the extra costs of outwardly renting like paying the council tax or just to temporarily stay out of sight of the taxman. It was amazing to see the stories of how people can camp down and live a bare necessity lifestyle for a year or two, people who were holding down good jobs, just to weather the storm for a while and clear debts, save, etc., You may be underestimating how internally tough people can become when times get harder or circumstances change for a while.

Boomer

Edited by boom_and_bust

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I can't believe that you lot actually think you determine the cost of rent by what you are willing to pay!

:lol::lol::lol:

When I look at the price of TV's these days, I think , god that is cheap (I even saw a Sony 42 inch Plasma today new for £1200 - cheapest I've ever seen). I have the opportunity to ask for a discount, but the shopkeeper has the right to say no.

But that isn't what's important. The main factor is that there is so much competition these days to sell you & I electronic goods, that the competitors have had to compete on price as well as quality. So I don't command the price of TV's, I enjoy the low price because competition has been encouraged.

The AST has created this BTL boom and your rents have been low & stable enough due to new competition arriving in the market. The Govt at your request (you voted for them) is going to put a stop to this. Not by removing the AST and giving you more rights, but by removing your suppliers from the market.

This is when you will be caught in a tough pincer movement. You will have a choice of buying an overvalued asset with the BTL buyers pulling out and the prospect of large capital losses, or having to pay more for a reduced supply of rental accomodation.

If I were you, I would be resigned to the fact that you will be paying much more rent for far longer than you realised.

How much does a rent deposit scheme cost? NOTHING. The things they are trying to introduce here are very similar to what goes on in Australia. In NSW the rent deposit scheme not only pays for itself (the tribuneral and the money holding/managing) it actually draws a surplus that goes into the government coffers (hey, in the perfect world, LESS TAX). Why? Sound mad? Its because the amount of interest that the deposits collect is enough to run the system and more. At the moment landlords are getting interest on money they don't own... Better it be used to protect my rights in my opinion. Let 'em eat cake!

Sorry Elizabeth. I fully support deposit schemes, but this is not what I'm talking about in this thread.

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Guest

If I were you, I would be resigned to the fact that you will be paying much more rent for far longer than you realised.

Only if a mass exodus happens from BTL. If that happens, we have a much faster crash, so any higher rents would be paid for a shorter time.

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Surely if there is a mass exodus of newbie, dodgy or red - taped out landords then there will be properties making no money for the owner? Would they not sell? Lower prices would ensue and the renters will recognise the better deal later down the line and buy. Added pressure on housing sounds like good new to me.

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The AST has created this BTL boom and your rents have been low & stable enough due to new competition arriving in the market. The Govt at your request (you voted for them) is going to put a stop to this. Not by removing the AST and giving you more rights, but by removing your suppliers from the market.

Hrm, FTB'ers have been squeezed out of the market and only compromise 9% of buyers (many of those being 'returners') and BTL'ers have taken up some of the slack we're told, knock those out of the market and you've taken all support from the lower end of the market.

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TTRTR, this is great news. If what you say is true (and not an exageration) then it can only hasten a fall in property prices.

If landlords like mine have to fork out all this extra cash then they will go under. There is no way my landlord (a classic BTL type) could stump up 100,000.

If he had to he would sell up rather than do that. I would be first in with a shout offering him 40% below the famous market value. If he refused, we would move (good luck to him with the sale).

According to your logic we would have to move into a higher priced place. I just dont think so, in fact there are places we fancy that are on offer for less rent than we are paying. And lets say he couldn't sell before our current 6 monthly agreement runs out. Well, we would be in a strong position to negotiate a lower rent on a take it or leave it basis.

I have been an OO and I have been a landlord. Right now I am just enjoying being a footloose and fancy free renter.

:D

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I've just had a glance at the regulations. It looks strict. For example, unless you're a qualified electrician you'll only be allowed to do the most basic electrical work. All adds to the overheads.

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  • 339 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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