'spy In Bag' Gareth Williams Did Not Get Into Holdall Alone, Say Experts

[Darkman]

I always thought it was ridiculous to suggest Williams got into this holdall in the bath as part of some bizarre sexual kick. And the reason it was ever said was to smear Williams. To do it with such an idiotic story was designed to add even more insult IMO. Faulding's statements that the holdall was placed in the bath to let the fluids drain cleanly were my thoughts exactly.

Personally I believe Williams was murdered in a very professional hit, which was designed to send a clear message as opposed to being covert. And most probably MI6 was behind it, or another country perhaps. What Williams did or knew to get this treatment we'll never know. But as we know from history, assassinations on British soil do happen and they are often very public. Remember Alexander Litvinenko?

'Spy in bag' Gareth Williams did not get into holdall alone, say experts

Gareth Williams, the MI6 spy, was not alone when he was locked in a holdall in the bath of his Pimlico flat, claim experts who contradict police conclusions

Experts who tried and failed to recreate the method of death of spy Gareth Williams say they do not agree with the police finding that the MI6 man died by accident.

The codebreaker could not have got into the bag and locked it from the inside alone, witnesses who worked closely with the investigation have claimed after attempting the task more than 400 times. No one has ever come forward who has been able to recreate the scene.

He believes that the evidence points toward murder as the heating in the flat had been turned up despite it being midsummer, which would have speeded up decomposition, a doorknob which could have given forensic clues had been removed, and Mr William’s iPhone had been wiped.

Mr Faulding told the Sunday Express: “I believe the bag was placed in the bath to let bodily fluids run down the plughole."

My link

[DTMark]

I always thought it was ridiculous to suggest Williams got into this holdall in the bath as part of some bizarre sexual kick. And the reason it was ever said was to smear Williams. To do it with such an idiotic story was designed to add even more insult IMO. Faulding's statements that the holdall was placed in the bath to let the fluids drain cleanly were my thoughts exactly.

Personally I believe Williams was murdered in a very professional hit, which was designed to send a clear message as opposed to being covert. And most probably MI6 was behind it, or another country perhaps. What Williams did or knew to get this treatment we'll never know. But as we know from history, assassinations on British soil do happen and they are often very public. Remember Alexander Litvinenko?

My link

Agree with your conclusion. I haven't followed this closely but in the best tradition of Agatha Christie plots, the idea that he locked himself in seems to be missing any credible motive and his body being found in the holdall suggests to me that the murder might well have taken place elsewhere. And then extrapolating to the point of sheer guesswork, I wonder if the significance of the style of murder and dumping of the body was retaliatory.

[SarahBell]

The whole idea that he did it himself was silly. Wasn't it?

[The Masked Tulip]

I don't think he did it by himself. I do think it was a BDSM game that went wrong. The question I have is how his flat came to be forensically virtually spotless - someone(s) with expertise obviously cleaned it so I wonder who?

I conjecture that the person(s) involved in the BDSM game were VIPs and their part in some S&M game gone wrong had to be covered up.

[SNACR]

I always thought it was ridiculous to suggest Williams got into this holdall in the bath as part of some bizarre sexual kick. And the reason it was ever said was to smear Williams. To do it with such an idiotic story was designed to add even more insult IMO. Faulding's statements that the holdall was placed in the bath to let the fluids drain cleanly were my thoughts exactly.

Personally I believe Williams was murdered in a very professional hit, which was designed to send a clear message as opposed to being covert. And most probably MI6 was behind it, or another country perhaps. What Williams did or knew to get this treatment we'll never know. But as we know from history, assassinations on British soil do happen and they are often very public. Remember Alexander Litvinenko?

My link

The crude sexual smears seem to make this scenario far more probable.

[Errol]

There were no finger prints anywhere - including on the rim of the bath or the bag etc. The idea that he killed himself is just a joke.

[motch]

Agree with your conclusion. I haven't followed this closely but in the best tradition of Agatha Christie plots, the idea that he locked himself in seems to be missing any credible motive and his body being found in the holdall suggests to me that the murder might well have taken place elsewhere. And then extrapolating to the point of sheer guesswork, I wonder if the significance of the style of murder and dumping of the body was retaliatory.

With the poor fella only being about 10 stone a strong bloke could carry the holdall out of a car into the flat without it looking like he's dragging a body along.

[The Masked Tulip]

You lot don't go to many S&M parties do you? Why ever not?

Do a google and have a read - the locked in a bag thing is more common than you realise and, yes, there are people who do do it to themselves. Some of the self bondage people do the most seemingly impossible things to themselves.

Sadly, occasionally things go wrong at these parties and, rarely, someone sadly dies.

For what I think happened I refer you to my above post.

[SNACR]

You lot don't go to many S&M parties do you? Why ever not?

Do a google and have a read - the locked in a bag thing is more common than you realise and, yes, there are people who do do it to themselves. Some of the self bondage people do the most seemingly impossible things to themselves.

Sadly, occasionally things go wrong at these parties and, rarely, someone sadly dies.

For what I think happened I refer you to my above post.

Is getting what appears to be a pro evidence cleaning team in first and wiping your iphone to factory settings a thing in the S&M scene too?

[The Masked Tulip]

Is getting what appears to be a pro evidence cleaning team in first and wiping your iphone to factory settings a thing in the S&M scene too?

I refer you again to my first post in the thread. It is amazing just how many VIPs go to such parties. I have already said too much. If I suddenly stop posting you will know why

[Darkman]

I refer you again to my first post in the thread. It is amazing just how many VIPs go to such parties. I have already said too much. If I suddenly stop posting you will know why

I'm surprised you're sticking to this theory. Personally I think it calls your judgement into question.

Sometimes people believe what they *want* to believe.

[The Masked Tulip]

I'm surprised you're sticking to this theory. Personally I think it calls your judgement into question.

Sometimes people believe what they *want* to believe.

I am surprised you seem unwilling to believe my theory. Of the great and the good it is quite amazing just how many of the 'great' have a fetish for tying up or being tied up. You meet all sorts

[Rave]

I am surprised you seem unwilling to believe my theory. Of the great and the good it is quite amazing just how many of the 'great' have a fetish for tying up or being tied up. You meet all sorts

Begs the question then- would you play a dangerous sex game with someone with a great deal to lose, if you worked for GCHQ?

As a non-kinky person, I can't quite get my head around the thrill of being stuffed in a holdall. I can empathise with the fun in being hogtied/whipped etc. though it doesn't do it for me personally, but being stuffed in a bag without even enough freedom of movement to knock one out? What's the point?]]

[happy_renting]

I don't think he did it by himself. I do think it was a BDSM game that went wrong.

Briefcases, Duffelbags, Suitcases and......? I cant work out what the 'M' stands for.

[The Masked Tulip]

Briefcases, Duffelbags, Suitcases and......? I cant work out what the 'M' stands for.

Manbags.