Bedroom Tax Works!

[SarahBell]

http://news.sky.com/story/1157481/bedroom-tax-pushes-claimants-off-benefits

One in 10 people stripped of the £15-a-week payout in what critics call the "bedroom tax" have come off benefits altogether, according to new figures.

Data obtained under Freedom of Information laws shows tens of thousands of claimants affected by the welfare reform have been encouraged to find work.

This has doubled the saving predicted by ministers from the move, up from £500m-a-year to around £1bn.

--

What they need to do is measure the number of people who have been able to move up into a bigger property because someone has left a too-big property.

That'd be a much better show of how this policy has worked.

[Rain'ard]

http://news.sky.com/...ts-off-benefits

One in 10 people stripped of the £15-a-week payout in what critics call the "bedroom tax" have come off benefits altogether, according to new figures.

Data obtained under Freedom of Information laws shows tens of thousands of claimants affected by the welfare reform have been encouraged to find work.

This has doubled the saving predicted by ministers from the move, up from £500m-a-year to around £1bn.

--

What they need to do is measure the number of people who have been able to move up into a bigger property because someone has left a too-big property.

That'd be a much better show of how this policy has worked.

SO this was the Vindictive Tory motive behind this wasit? Not what they usually like to claim. I was led to believe that this was to help relieve the housing crisis. People Let's have a tax on beardsit will help the shaving cosmetic industry no end.

[Democorruptcy]

It's not a bedroom tax it's a baby bonus.

If you had enough babies you can have a bigger property.

Surely a measure of it's failure is the increased birthrate amongst younger people claiming benefits, making sure they don't miss out like their parents might have?

[@contradevian]

I need a more authoritative news site than Tory Home I'm afraid.

All it means is that some people found work, which they may have done regardless of bedroom tax.

[scrappycocco]

Its champagne socialism, getting something for nothing and then getting back on your high horse.

[Timak]

http://news.sky.com/story/1157481/bedroom-tax-pushes-claimants-off-benefits

This come from an FOI request by Conservative Home.

The entire basis of it was destroyed in the comment section of the article which showed it to be completely wrong in its conclusions.

Glad to see Sky News have repeated it without doing any fact checking!

http://www.conservativehome.com/localgovernment/2013/10/cutting-the-spare-room-subsidy-is-getting-thousands-into-work.html

Well done on managing to outdo most of your colleagues in the manipulation of the truth. The reason the numbers claiming HB have dropped is to do with the fact that 7% of tenants were only claiming 'topping up' levels of HB of a few pounds a week and, as the Government predicted in the Impact Assessment, would naturally 'float off' HB when the bedroom tax was introduced. The bedroom tax would cancel out the amount they received in HB, around £5 to £10 pounds a week. Some around £3. Certainly none at the levels of those paying full bedroom tax. These are people already in work. Housing benefit being an 'in work' benefit and means tested. These tenants would also be unlikely to be in receipt of other benefits So, voila! You've managed to prove exactly the point made by the Government's own impact assessment: those in work will no longer be topped up by HB when the bedroom tax comes in. Well done. But please don't pretend that this policy has any merit or that it encourages behavioural change. We all know that's not true.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Timak

[Rain'ard]

Its champagne socialism, getting something for nothing and then getting back on your high horse.

Could you explain more, The bedroom tax doesn't infer Champaign socialism to me. More bully boy toryism

[Wurzel Of Highbridge]

I thought the Tory plan was to scrap all benefits, make people live in shipping containers and make the under 25's work in their workhouses.

[@contradevian]

I thought the Tory plan was to scrap all benefits, make people live in shipping containers and make the under 25's work in their workhouses.

Thats about right. Meanwhile flagship Tory welfare reforms are causing a homelessness surge which is stretching Council budgets.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/patrick-butler-cuts-blog/2013/oct/17/flagship-tory-council-welfare-reforms-causing-homelessness?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

In September Westminster was ordered by the ombudsman to pay more than £100,000 in compensation to over 40 families who had complained that it had left them in BnBs illegally, in some cases for many months. Westminster has, happily, reduced the numbers of families staying in BnBs for over six weeks from a high of 170 in February 2013 to zero. But homeless families are still suffering -16 families a week are being placed inappropriately (if not illegally) in BnBs, and Westminster is paying - and will continue to pay - a high price for what it admits is a problem in part created and certainly exacerbated by government changes to housing benefit.

The Tories - putting Doctor Goebbels to shame

Great if you are a London BnB owner of course!

[SarahBell]

Thats about right. Meanwhile flagship Tory welfare reforms are causing a homelessness surge which is stretching Council budgets.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/patrick-butler-cuts-blog/2013/oct/17/flagship-tory-council-welfare-reforms-causing-homelessness?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

The Tories - putting Doctor Goebbels to shame

Great if you are a London BnB owner of course!

Of course if you shuffled all the socially houses tax payer paid empty bedroomers (AND OAPs) out of their huge houses you'd be able to house the poor families stuck in B&B.

But apparently suggesting people on benefits can't have a spare room is akin to eating newborn kittens like veal.

The benefits to the bits of society trapped in B&B, overcrowded properties, etc would more than compensate for the misery of those who have to give up their spare bedrooms.

[Damik]

It's not a bedroom tax it's a baby bonus.

If you had enough babies you can have a bigger property.

Surely a measure of it's failure is the increased birthrate amongst younger people claiming benefits, making sure they don't miss out like their parents might have?

it is a kind of ethnic cleansing based on your income:

- people earning roughly under £40k pa benefit financially with more children

- people earning roughly above £40k pa lose financially with more children

the idea is that we will get rid of the people with higher earning potential. and the people left will be dependent on the state benefits and therefore voting Labour. so in 5 generations we will be all equal

Edited October 23, 2013 by Damik

[Damik]

I thought the Tory plan was to scrap all benefits, make people live in shipping containers and make the under 25's work in their workhouses.

I would not mind at all if I can buy a farm land close to M25 and live there in a few shipping containers with my family.

[iamnumerate]

it is a kind of ethnic cleansing based on your income:

- people earning roughly under £40k pa benefit financially with more children

- people earning roughly above £40k pa lose financially with more children

the idea is that we will get rid of the people with higher earning potential. and the people left will be dependent on the state benefits and therefore voting Labour. so in 5 generations we will be all equal

People who don't want to work benefit even more with children.

[Damik]

I thought the Tory plan was to scrap all benefits, make people live in shipping containers and make the under 25's work in their workhouses.

I wish Gordon Brown stayed in power and did not lose the last elections. The economical disaster would shut the f.ck up all the left wingers here for next 300 years ...

[fluffy666]

I thought the Tory plan was to scrap all benefits, make people live in shipping containers and make the under 25's work in their workhouses.

Only if their mates let them live in shipping containers. You can survive in the gutter if you have a decent jumper, you know.

[Damik]

But please don't pretend that this policy has any merit or that it encourages behavioural change. We all know that's not true.

Believe me or not there are families with children on the social housing lists waiting for these spare bed rooms.

Why do you want to keep these spare bedrooms for some minority of the chosen one if they do not really need them ???

[@contradevian]

Of course if you shuffled all the socially houses tax payer paid empty bedroomers (AND OAPs) out of their huge houses you'd be able to house the poor families stuck in B&B.

But apparently suggesting people on benefits can't have a spare room is akin to eating newborn kittens like veal.

The benefits to the bits of society trapped in B&B, overcrowded properties, etc would more than compensate for the misery of those who have to give up their spare bedrooms.

Don't know why you don't go straight to the next stage and commission some cattle trucks and herd them off to work camps. Cut the BnB bill to zero in the Tory final solution.

And before I'm called a left wing whinger, I am well aware that Labour are not much better.

Edited October 23, 2013 by aSecureTenant

[durhamborn]

This report is half right,but does miss out quite a lot.

Single people on NMW working 35 hours if their rent is £80 get no HB.So lose nothing.

Single person working 20 hours if their rent is £80 gets/did get roughly £54 HB so under bedroom tax if they have spare rooms lose between £12 and £20 of their HB.

So the only working people it really hits are part time single workers or part time single workers with a partner on disability.Its meant to push these people to full time it seems.

Universal Credit also ends for a single person just above NMW.For a couple with 1 child UC ends roughly if they both work 35 hours x NMW.

It seems to me without saying it the government are trying to structure the welfare system to see the NMW level x 35 hours removes someone from benefits.For a couple with a child if they both work 35 x NMW that also just lifts them out of UC.

The conditionality regime seems to force this point.The only part missing is the limit on children.Thats the one missing bit.

I fully expect that will be in the next Conservative manifesto,,a limit at 2 children,maybe even in some movement in the autumn statement.

It looks like they are trying to make it that NMW level just removes you from benefits so there is no dis-incentive to not try to get a better job/work overtime etc.

I think if it is the case then it is a good move but the no limit on children is the downfall,for now.

[Dorkins]

Where's the negative control? How many would have come off benefits anyway in the absence of the bedroom tax?

[Damik]

This report is half right,but does miss out quite a lot.

Single people on NMW working 35 hours if their rent is £80 get no HB.So lose nothing.

Single person working 20 hours if their rent is £80 gets/did get roughly £54 HB so under bedroom tax if they have spare rooms lose between £12 and £20 of their HB.

So the only working people it really hits are part time single workers or part time single workers with a partner on disability.Its meant to push these people to full time it seems.

Universal Credit also ends for a single person just above NMW.For a couple with 1 child UC ends roughly if they both work 35 hours x NMW.

It seems to me without saying it the government are trying to structure the welfare system to see the NMW level x 35 hours removes someone from benefits.For a couple with a child if they both work 35 x NMW that also just lifts them out of UC.

The conditionality regime seems to force this point.The only part missing is the limit on children.Thats the one missing bit.

I fully expect that will be in the next Conservative manifesto,,a limit at 2 children,maybe even in some movement in the autumn statement.

It looks like they are trying to make it that NMW level just removes you from benefits so there is no dis-incentive to not try to get a better job/work overtime etc.

I think if it is the case then it is a good move but the no limit on children is the downfall,for now.

I am not sure how it fixes the problem that low earners with 2 kids will be compensated via benefits and tax credits to earn an equivalent of £30k pa

If the employers are clever (what they are) they would seek employees with 2 or more kids and help them with the benefit claims. And I am feeling this is already the case as so many new jobs are pying now just the NMW

[Oliver Sutton]

I wish Gordon Brown stayed in power and did not lose the last elections. The economical disaster would shut the f.ck up all the left wingers Labour supporters here for next 300 years ...

Corrected for you.

[Democorruptcy]

It looks like they are trying to make it that NMW level just removes you from benefits so there is no dis-incentive to not try to get a better job/work overtime etc.

I think if it is the case then it is a good move but the no limit on children is the downfall,for now.

If not working and working only pays the same, lots of people won't bother working.

Aren't there other things the unemployed get outside the bare cash for benefit? Cheaper sports centre admission, free prescriptions, etc - you will know more than me about the other "perks".

[hemichromis]

I'm actually quite fond of the bedroom tax

I just wish they would evict occupants when the earn above a certain amount, i know people with combined salaries of 80k+ paying £400 rent a month and others who earn less than £30k between them having to shell out 900 a month.

[scrappycocco]

I still think a spare room here falls under champagne socialism. You have more than you need, others go without, you practice and preach a socialist existence. I don't get the tory association. The tories are basically champagne socialists anyway like most people that get into government.

[@contradevian]

I'm actually quite fond of the bedroom tax

I just wish they would evict occupants when the earn above a certain amount, i know people with combined salaries of 80k+ paying £400 rent a month and others who earn less than £30k between them having to shell out 900 a month.

Yup evict them onto the streets and march them to camps for having the audacity for taking up a secure tenancy, bloody scroungers, refusing to pay BUBBLE prices.