Wtf The Living Wage

[MarkG]

As was predicted by James Goldsmith- globalisation has destroyed the earning power of the western workforce- even the middle class who imagined themselves to be on the right side of history are coming to understand this reality- as their children increasingly fail to match the living standards enjoyed by their parents.

Globalisation hasn't destroyed their earning power. Sitting back and demanding the government give them jobs rather than going out and creating new world-beating industries has destroyed their earning power.

Wealth comes from doing things other countries can't do, and Britain gave up on that after WWII. Today, anyone suggesting the country should lead the world in new technologies like genetic engineering will be shouted down by the Greenists.

But no- we had to bail out the people who created the mess instead- and what we got for our money was a banking system still mired in 'toxic waste' and even more 'too big to fail' than it was five years ago- what a great way to invest billions of taxpayer money that turned out to be.

I thought you were a socialist? Socialists love bailouts. Everyone must have prizes, no-one can fail.

[awaytogo]

Only thing is a debt based fiat monetary system like ours relies on new debt to keep going.

interesting times ahead indeed.

Yup

Very interesting times indeed, subsided debt in the form of HTB which is hoped to be repaid by House price inflation, All this when earnings are rising at 0.7% PA.

Cameron and co Need to go back to school.

[wonderpup]

Globalisation hasn't destroyed their earning power. Sitting back and demanding the government give them jobs rather than going out and creating new world-beating industries has destroyed their earning power.

Wealth comes from doing things other countries can't do, and Britain gave up on that after WWII. Today, anyone suggesting the country should lead the world in new technologies like genetic engineering will be shouted down by the Greenists.

China got rich on the back of cheap labor- not high tech innovation. And you are wrong to claim that the UK did not excel at something- it did- we had the glorious financial sector in our corner- we had the City of the London, we had RBS- one of the biggest banks in the world- and we had enough combined brain power in the square mile to deliver a cure for cancer, world peace and still get home in time for tea.

The result was an epic disaster that required billions of taxpayer funded bailouts- money that could have been better spent on research in exactly the areas you describe like genetics.

I thought you were a socialist? Socialists love bailouts. Everyone must have prizes, no-one can fail.

Actually I'm a realist- and a skeptic. The truth is everyone's a socialist- the poor like their benefits- the middle classes like their house values to be supported with QE, FLS and "Help to Buy' and the rich never met a bailout they did not like.

Capitalism and free markets are just a fairy tale- they have never existed in reality nor does anyone really want them to. Only economists believe in such things- but they will believe in anything- even Trickledown economics.

[Bland Unsight]

Capitalism and free markets are just a fairy tale- they have never existed in reality nor does anyone really want them to. Only economists believe in such things- but they will believe in anything- even Trickledown economics.

The Four Horsemen film has acquainted me with the earlier characterisation of trickle-down as the "Horse and Sparrows", where if you feed the horse enough oats, there will be oats in the horseshit for the sparrows to eat...

The economist John Kenneth Galbraith noted that "trickle-down economics" had been tried before in the United States in the 1890s under the name "horse and sparrow theory." He wrote, "Mr. David Stockman has said that supply-side economics was merely a cover for the trickle-down approach to economic policy—what an older and less elegant generation called the horse-and-sparrow theory: 'If you feed the horse enough oats, some will pass through to the road for the sparrows.'" Galbraith claimed that the horse and sparrow theory was partly to blame for the Panic of 1896

Source: wiki

[Venger]

Two things;

First, Millibands 'incentive is absurd - a company gets CT relief on the extra cost, so his big incentive is about 10% of the cost for one year.

Second, and most importantly, all this does is raise the incentive to push for headcount reduction, or create even bigger advantages for established, higher tech firms over start up competition.

I'm all for it paying to work, but artificially pushing up wage rates won't do it. Better to reduce living costs and lower welfare accordingly.

+1. Strange how Spain is positioning itself for strength, looking at advantage of lower living costs for skilled workers, trying to attract a lot more start-up enterprises + foreign companies to set up there, and improve exports on lower costs. There's also a real push on to try and reduce cost of Gov / public sector.

Milliband and others seem to want the opposite for the UK, imo.

Welcome back bogbrush. Your second post of 2013, I think. You're not convinced by Milliband himself? (*shudder*)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24786397

Edited November 4, 2013 by Venger

[MarkG]

China got rich on the back of cheap labor- not high tech innovation.

China isn't rich. Some Chinese people are rich, but most are still as dirt poor as Britons would be if they adopted your anti-technology ethos.

And you are wrong to claim that the UK did not excel at something- it did- we had the glorious financial sector in our corner- we had the City of the London, we had RBS- one of the biggest banks in the world- and we had enough combined brain power in the square mile to deliver a cure for cancer, world peace and still get home in time for tea.

Taking money from one account, putting it in another and taking a percentage off the top is not difficult work.

The truth is everyone's a socialist

No, they're not. You're just projecting your own faults on everyone else.

Most people in socialist nations may be socialists, demanding that money be taken from others and given to them, but that situation can only last until they run out of other people to steal from.

[winkie]

Two things;

First, Millibands 'incentive is absurd - a company gets CT relief on the extra cost, so his big incentive is about 10% of the cost for one year.

Second, and most importantly, all this does is raise the incentive to push for headcount reduction, or create even bigger advantages for established, higher tech firms over start up competition.

I'm all for it paying to work, but artificially pushing up wage rates won't do it. Better to reduce living costs and lower welfare accordingly.

This ^.........and in regard to the financial city sector, as long as the money was pouring in, things like ethics and a wider social responsibility were ignored...money comes before the other irrelevant minor considerations......all this hot air talk about paying firms to pay more money is quite frankly a load of nonsense....the winners will not be the workers, the only way is as said, is to reduce living costs....food, fuel, water and shelter......then the wage they get now will be enough to live...a living wage like it always used to be.