inflating Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 http://www.whycycle.co.uk/bike_jargon_buster/bike_frame_materials/ Referring to the above advice site, I notice the alloy bicycles around don't have the lifetime frame guarantee of the steel ones. If you have an alloy budget priced bike, how is it going? Any sign of the alloy going "funny" or the ride being "harsher" than a steel frame bicycle? Am thinking of getting an Ammaco steel or alloy, budget priced model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Melchett Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 http://www.whycycle....rame_materials/ Referring to the above advice site, I notice the alloy bicycles around don't have the lifetime frame guarantee of the steel ones. If you have an alloy budget priced bike, how is it going? Any sign of the alloy going "funny" or the ride being "harsher" than a steel frame bicycle? Am thinking of getting an Ammaco steel or alloy, budget priced model. I have a cheapish (cost about 300 quid back then) 10 year old mountain bike. Still going strong despite proper off road use, but its time for a change for me. I have a number of steel bikes aged 25 years plus, all really good quality to start with, but are rubbish compared to even an entry level (~500 quid) modern alu framed bike. How long do you want a bike to last? Unless you're a geek about old tech, i think you might want to invest in something more up to date every 10 years or so. Good steel frames are only found on more expensive bikes (800 quid up). Reliable entry level is about 500 quid new. You can get reasonable stuff from about 300 quid new if you know your onions. Otherwise, secondhand is the way to go. Dont buy cheap shit BSOs. You might as well just burn your money and continue with your current mode of transport. We have this thread every few months on OT, do some back reading, some of the threads have a lot of detailed advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 You'll wear the rest of the bike out, long before you wear the frame out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I have a number of steel bikes aged 25 years plus, all really good quality to start with, but are rubbish compared to even an entry level (~500 quid) modern alu framed bike. That seems a bit high, you can buy a basic Ridgeback/Dawes for around £200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 That seems a bit high, you can buy a basic Ridgeback/Dawes for around £200. With bikes you really do get what you pay for. I would not recommend anyone spending less than £500 on a bike. Just make sure and look after it and it will give you 10+ years of use no bother. Not many other things costing £500 that can transport you 10's of thousands of miles and and keep you fit. When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. --H.G. Wells Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inflating Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 I have a cheapish (cost about 300 quid back then) 10 year old mountain bike. Still going strong despite proper off road use, but its time for a change for me. I have a number of steel bikes aged 25 years plus, all really good quality to start with, but are rubbish compared to even an entry level (~500 quid) modern alu framed bike. How long do you want a bike to last? Unless you're a geek about old tech, i think you might want to invest in something more up to date every 10 years or so. Good steel frames are only found on more expensive bikes (800 quid up). Reliable entry level is about 500 quid new. You can get reasonable stuff from about 300 quid new if you know your onions. Otherwise, secondhand is the way to go. Dont buy cheap shit BSOs. You might as well just burn your money and continue with your current mode of transport. We have this thread every few months on OT, do some back reading, some of the threads have a lot of detailed advice. People tell me Ammoco is not a BSO, but is ok. What do you reckon? And am I better off with the alloy model (same price) ? I had a BSO and also a decent Sprick in Poland, the Sprick was very cheap and if it was a BSO then it was a damn good one! BSO http://www.whycycle.co.uk/buying_your_bike/beware_the_bicycle_shaped_object/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Melchett Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 People tell me Ammoco is not a BSO, but is ok. What do you reckon? And am I better off with the alloy model (same price) ? I had a BSO and also a decent Sprick in Poland, the Sprick was very cheap and if it was a BSO then it was a damn good one! BSO http://www.whycycle...._shaped_object/ Shrugs. Wouldnt know. TBH, I wouldnt want to know. The cheapest bikes I would consider buying.reccing would be basic utility bikes from Halfords or Decathlon for 2-300 quid. Others may be reasonable too, but I wouldnt know. Like it says in that link, buy from a bike shop, or at least a shop (like those 2) that takes bikes seriously, and take their advice (so long as they look and sound like they know what they're talking about and are not just the saturday jobber). One word of warning: MTBs are very 'popular' and bring out the worst in BSOs. If someone tries to flog you an MTB for less than say 400 quid then they are a liar and are only after your money. 800 quid floor if it has suspension at both ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I know a few guys who paid many thousands for alum racing bikes and the frames cracked - they lost the money, as it was nigh on impossible to get the money back by proving that the cracks were the result of the metal as opposed to use. Steel bikes are just too heavy though - trying picking one up. I would always recommend getting a light alum bike but pay something realistic. Lots of people buy very expensive bikes, find they do not like or need them and often stick them on ebay for much less - suggest people keep an eye out on ebay for bikes. Make sure they ain't nicked though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inflating Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 Shrugs. Wouldnt know. TBH, I wouldnt want to know. The cheapest bikes I would consider buying.reccing would be basic utility bikes from Halfords or Decathlon for 2-300 quid. Others may be reasonable too, but I wouldnt know. Like it says in that link, buy from a bike shop, or at least a shop (like those 2) that takes bikes seriously, and take their advice (so long as they look and sound like they know what they're talking about and are not just the saturday jobber). One word of warning: MTBs are very 'popular' and bring out the worst in BSOs. If someone tries to flog you an MTB for less than say 400 quid then they are a liar and are only after your money. 800 quid floor if it has suspension at both ends. I don't want an MTB, it's an urban commuter bike. These are from bike shops, reduced from £200 to £130. Thanks for the info btw I know a few guys who paid many thousands for alum racing bikes and the frames cracked - they lost the money, as it was nigh on impossible to get the money back by proving that the cracks were the result of the metal as opposed to use. Steel bikes are just too heavy though - trying picking one up. I would always recommend getting a light alum bike but pay something realistic. Lots of people buy very expensive bikes, find they do not like or need them and often stick them on ebay for much less - suggest people keep an eye out on ebay for bikes. Make sure they ain't nicked though. The steel one has a lifetime frame guarantee, the alloy does not of course, £130 is the price at the moment, nothing much on eBay unless I travel hundreds of miles or they use a courier but that means dis-assembly and into a bike box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Melchett Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I know a few guys who paid many thousands for alum racing bikes and the frames cracked - they lost the money, as it was nigh on impossible to get the money back by proving that the cracks were the result of the metal as opposed to use. Steel bikes are just too heavy though - trying picking one up. I would always recommend getting a light alum bike but pay something realistic. Lots of people buy very expensive bikes, find they do not like or need them and often stick them on ebay for much less - suggest people keep an eye out on ebay for bikes. Make sure they ain't nicked though. yup, it's a balance between not buying more than you are comfortable spending and buying a pile of crap that will put you off cycling. Decide what sort of cycling you want to do. A hybrid/utility bike is what most people should probably buy, but do they? I'm a bike nut. But I'm not nuts. When i look at bikes i generally look in the 800-1500 squid range. Above that, you have to ask, are you really Mark Cavendish and so likely to see the benefit of the extra spend, or just being silly with your money? Pick up any bike mag: They will tell you entry level for a half decent bike is about 500 squid, (although you will not get a decent full squidger MTB for that, if that is what you are after). Ebay is great, but good stuff often goes on there for more than it could cost new (ebay madness takes hold of some buyers, methinks), plus it is a hotbed of fencing other peoples nicked bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Melchett Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 dupe... yargh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inflating Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 yup, it's a balance between not buying more than you are comfortable spending and buying a pile of crap that will put you off cycling. Very very true Ebay is great, but good stuff often goes on there for more than it could cost new (ebay madness takes hold of some buyers, methinks), Madness on there, auction fever (except when they're buying my stuff, then they're incredibly sober and sensible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Everything you never wanted to know.. Linky Quite fancy the Bamboo one myself, though it looks like Titanium is the winner for purists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbour Lad Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I used to have a Marin Point Reyes which is an aluminium framed hybrid cost around the £800 mark. I sold it on because it was uncomfortable to ride over long distances and I was afraid to leave it anywhere because of it's value. I now have a 1973 Raleigh Wayfarer which is really comfortable and always get admiring glances and favourable comments when I am out on it. It's not as fast as the Marin - but it will last a lot longer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Inflating - if you are loking for something easily available near to you - then get something like this - look after it and enjoy. More than you want to spend but I can assure you spending a bit more on a bike is actually going to save you in the long term. Halfords Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Melchett Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Inflating - if you are loking for something easily available near to you - then get something like this - look after it and enjoy. More than you want to spend but I can assure you spending a bit more on a bike is actually going to save you in the long term. Halfords +1 If that bike was a car, it'd be a Ford Focus. Reliable, value, etc. All the bike 95% of adults need 95% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 +1 If that bike was a car, it'd be a Ford Focus. Reliable, value, etc. All the bike 95% of adults need 95% of the time. Aye - not tried one but saw one close up and looked quality. Very good for the price too - Boardman seem to give you more bang for your buck than the other bigger names. Edinburgh Bike do some decent cheaper stuff too. Their hybrids seem very popular. This seems pretty good for £322. Revolution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurejon Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Forget Allu and Steel go for Carbon Fibre. Its light and strong and will last for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 http://www.whycycle.co.uk/bike_jargon_buster/bike_frame_materials/ Referring to the above advice site, I notice the alloy bicycles around don't have the lifetime frame guarantee of the steel ones. If you have an alloy budget priced bike, how is it going? Any sign of the alloy going "funny" or the ride being "harsher" than a steel frame bicycle? Am thinking of getting an Ammaco steel or alloy, budget priced model. During my university days, I did some materials courses. One of the properties of aluminium is that it has no fatigue limit. At any cyclic stress, the material will eventually fail. Steel, however, can withstand stresses up to its fatigue limit indefinitely. What this means is that an aluminium frame will eventually fail. If built strongly enough, a steel frame could last forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inflating Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 During my university days, I did some materials courses. One of the properties of aluminium is that it has no fatigue limit. At any cyclic stress, the material will eventually fail. Steel, however, can withstand stresses up to its fatigue limit indefinitely. What this means is that an aluminium frame will eventually fail. If built strongly enough, a steel frame could last forever. thank you, yes I am going for the steel one, in my price range I'll play safe People on the thread who are serious cyclists are probably right about their recommendations but where I live bikes get stolen, and don't really know of a lock that's thief proof - I hear U-locks can get picked with biros or levered apart, some say buy a Club lock, others say a Kryptonite - in the end I'll get a bike which doesn't make Johnny Thievingscum's eyes pop out too far and put 1 ordinary lock on it and a normal U lock and hope the effort isn't worth it for old Johnny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Forget Allu and Steel go for Carbon Fibre. Its light and strong and will last for years. Isn't there a slight danger with carbon fibre.. namely catastrophic failure with sharp pointy bits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 You'll wear the rest of the bike out, long before you wear the frame out. A steel top tube can decay. Just a little scratch to the paintwork where your sweat drips down, and watch the rust expand! I lost a bike to that: didn't see it happening (was obscured by brake/gear cables running to the back wheel) until the rust hole was too big to operate on. With aluminium there's a risk of sudden catastrophic failure. I had a handlebar shear right off from under me, and it was only about six years old! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I know a few guys who paid many thousands for alum racing bikes and the frames cracked - they lost the money, as it was nigh on impossible to get the money back by proving that the cracks were the result of the metal as opposed to use. Racing bikes are highly specialist, and presumably highly delicate. Longevity may not be a consideration! Steel bikes are just too heavy though - trying picking one up. I would always recommend getting a light alum bike but pay something realistic. Lots of people buy very expensive bikes, find they do not like or need them and often stick them on ebay for much less - suggest people keep an eye out on ebay for bikes. Make sure they ain't nicked though. Pure steel would indeed be heavy (though if you live in East Anglia that might be just fine)! But most bikes are mixed materials. I'd be very careful about secondhand, including ebay, unless I had very good reasons to trust my source. Unlike a car, they don't come with registration documents from HMG to give you evidence of due diligence over the stolen goods issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashinmattress Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 http://www.whycycle.co.uk/bike_jargon_buster/bike_frame_materials/ Referring to the above advice site, I notice the alloy bicycles around don't have the lifetime frame guarantee of the steel ones. If you have an alloy budget priced bike, how is it going? Any sign of the alloy going "funny" or the ride being "harsher" than a steel frame bicycle? Am thinking of getting an Ammaco steel or alloy, budget priced model. I've put an S-N chart up. This shows the amount of stress required in order to produce a failure in a speciment. Basically, anything 'above' the curve is a failure, anything below can can have one of two outcomes. Aluminium does not have a fatigue endurance limit, so yes, Al will fail after a 'predictable' number of cycles. The red curve on the chart carries on until it crosses the X-axis, although in reality that wont happen as the specimen will fracture before that happens. Steel does have this limit as you can see by the flat portion of the blue curve; if you do not pass the stress threshold fatigue failure will not occur. There are of course other fracture mechanisms which will have undesirable effects on steel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_limit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inflating Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 I've put an S-N chart up. This shows the amount of stress required in order to produce a failure in a speciment. Basically, anything 'above' the curve is a failure, anything below can can have one of two outcomes. Aluminium does not have a fatigue endurance limit, so yes, Al will fail after a 'predictable' number of cycles. The red curve on the chart carries on until it crosses the X-axis, although in reality that wont happen as the specimen will fracture before that happens. Steel does have this limit as you can see by the flat portion of the blue curve; if you do not pass the stress threshold fatigue failure will not occur. There are of course other fracture mechanisms which will have undesirable effects on steel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_limit Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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