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[Darkman]

However I get the impression that if I went into a bar anywhere other than in a major city like NY or SanF, I'd be dead by the end of the evening unless I kept my mouth firmly shut. Being gay wouldn't help either, since I'm clearly not one of God's creations so the fascists would be out for me.

Prejudice isn't any different in the states compared to the UK imo. They've seen gay people in bars before. You wouldn't get any special treatment

Why would you have to keep your mouth shut? That implies you might want to sound off about everything wrong about America. Well if you go anywhere and badmouth the place, don't expect praise obviously.

Though curiously, despite being such a large country, the American people have always seemed much more united than the British people and I wonder if that is down to the prevalence of religion, for better or worse.

I'm not sure where it comes from. Perhaps it's because the country is still so young? It's even more surprising considering the different states may as well be different countries.

The impression America projects isn't helped by morons like George Bush and especially Sarah Palin. What a ******* thick cow. Not sure how she stacks up against Gordon Brown, though.

Well that's just the worst of America. Personally I like Obama and the new image he is projecting for the country. Bush is widely regarded as a fool by Americans, and Palin as an absolute joke.

That something like 60% of Americans can't even correctly place Europe on a map. That about the same number believe everything in the bible is literally true. The number of people stupid enough to embrace evangelism. Things like that.

You may have noticed we now have our own religious nutters, so we can't take the high ground in that area anymore, heh. Yes, their geography could be improved upon. But remember each state is virtually it's own country anyway. They've got enough on their plate learning about their own home!

Quotes on the TV don't help. I recall some idiot in hicksville - perhaps Texas - bemoaning the gun laws saying that he should be able to carry a gun - so should anyone. as long as the criminals aren't allowed to have them. Yep, that will work.

Well I've had the same argument, and received some abuse for it. Unfortunately in some states you can carry a concealed weapon. Since the criminals are already well armed, I'd carry one too for purely self defence. The two worst things about US life are probably health care and guns. A lot of the US is rural though, and guns are primarily owned for hunting/outdoor life etc. There are some big bad animals over there i.e. bears, alligators etc etc.

I get the impression that our rural areas are generally populated with educated people, certainly far more so than the US, there isn't a massive divide.

That's just a horrible generalisation

I also get the impression that people in major US cities are well educated and not so far removed from anywhere else. it's such a big country; it might as well be lots of countries. Like the way we have Northerners and Southerners (not saying one is better, they're just different)

Right. A collection of large countries. That's what it really is.

I'd have to go there, as you say.

I wish you would. I think you'd be surprised at how intelligent and gracious Americans can be.

Anyway, enough of that. I'm not on the US tourist office payroll....

[ccc]

The US has more lunatics than any other place I have ever been.

Still - loads of nice people too. And a great place - in general.

[Billy Ray Valentine]

+1.

I lived there for more than 20 years and found 99.99% of Americans I met very friendly toward me and my country (England).

The rabid anti-Americanism on here is sickening. The level of ignorance of some people reflects why this country is known for its violent chavism and a crime rate that surpasses even the US where nearly all the crime is confined to ethnic ghettos (like Nottingham).

Thousands of people were cremated alived by Osama Bin Laden and hundreds more on our underground train network. To see him dispatched was good cause for celebration. This now dead "hero" has said there is no distinction between killing children and armed military as all are "infidels." I am personally grateful to the US for removing this monster from the planet.

Good work by the mods who relegated this thread to the "off" topic forum.

To those who hate America I say: Sieg Heil! Go ahead and let the totalitarians triumph and mourn when monsters like Hitler, Osama, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot are excecuted by those who still believe in freedom.

American is such a big place and many of the states are so different that to make sweeping generalisations about such a country is obviously ridiculous. Some of my co-workers regualrly go over to America on holiday, normally touristy places in Florida or weekend sightseeing breaks in Washington and New York. What makes me laugh is that becaue they've been to these places a few times they think they've seen the 'real' America! They honestly believe it's the land of milk and honey and that it's problems are practically zilch. It's hilarious! It's worse than American's holidaying in England and only sightseeing in the cleanest, Buckingham Palace-Tower of London touristy type places and then thinking they've seen the 'real' England. Large swathes of people from both countries living in a bubble.

And thousands of people were not 'cremated alive by Bin Laden.' Even the FBI didn't believe he was involved in the attacks of 9/11. He never received a trial!

I'm sorry to say though RB that you're grasp of history appears superficial, emotionally driven and practically clueless.

[shipbuilder]

I find it incredible that after thousands of pages of debate on the subject, disliking the American government and government policy is still regarded as 'Anti-Americanism'. Although presumably now this doesn't include disliking Obama.

[SNACR]

I certainly don't think you'd have witnessed similar scenes in forties Britain if a bomb had got Hitler. It was an altogether more restrained time with wholly different social mores.

There would have been some degree of triumphalism but, not the sort of unedifying behaviour witnessed in the US.

I don't think generalisations are healthy but, are sometimes inevitable. Saying that people in Seattle are lovely is no different to saying people in Cambridge are lovely ergo everyone in Britain is lovely and erudite.

There's no escaping the US has serious issues with jingoism and unhealthy faux-patriotic flag waving across wide parts.

[Stay Beautiful]

+1.

I lived there for more than 20 years and found 99.99% of Americans I met very friendly toward me and my country (England).

The rabid anti-Americanism on here is sickening. The level of ignorance of some people reflects why this country is known for its violent chavism and a crime rate that surpasses even the US where nearly all the crime is confined to ethnic ghettos (like Nottingham).

Thousands of people were cremated alived by Osama Bin Laden and hundreds more on our underground train network. To see him dispatched was good cause for celebration. This now dead "hero" has said there is no distinction between killing children and armed military as all are "infidels." I am personally grateful to the US for removing this monster from the planet.

Good work by the mods who relegated this thread to the "off" topic forum.

To those who hate America I say: Sieg Heil! Go ahead and let the totalitarians triumph and mourn when monsters like Hitler, Osama, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot are excecuted by those who still believe in freedom.

Pol Pot is not an example you should use when trying to defend Americans, he became their friend when he was kicked out of Cambodia by the Vietnamese.

[Darkman]

And thousands of people were not 'cremated alive by Bin Laden.' Even the FBI didn't believe he was involved in the attacks of 9/11. He never received a trial!

Oh boy....

[Billy Ray Valentine]

Oh boy....

New Avatar for you?

[corevalue]

+1.

I lived there for more than 20 years and found 99.99% of Americans I met very friendly toward me and my country (England).

The rabid anti-Americanism on here is sickening. The level of ignorance of some people reflects why this country is known for its violent chavism and a crime rate that surpasses even the US where nearly all the crime is confined to ethnic ghettos (like Nottingham).

Thousands of people were cremated alived by Osama Bin Laden and hundreds more on our underground train network. To see him dispatched was good cause for celebration. This now dead "hero" has said there is no distinction between killing children and armed military as all are "infidels." I am personally grateful to the US for removing this monster from the planet.

Good work by the mods who relegated this thread to the "off" topic forum.

To those who hate America I say: Sieg Heil! Go ahead and let the totalitarians triumph and mourn when monsters like Hitler, Osama, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot are excecuted by those who still believe in freedom.

Brainwashed as ever.

The official wanted poster for Osama Bin Laden at Official wanted poster for Bin Laden DOES NOT WANT HIM FOR EVENTS ON 911. Not enough evidence, apparently (so say the FBI).

[SHERWICK]

Been there have you? I disagree. On that deduction, what would that make Bush then?

At least Obama seems (to me) to show that he understands the impact of what he says. George Dubble Ya seemed to make up soundbites as he went along.

+1.

Dubya could barely speak coherently, never mind make any 'soundbites'.

[SHERWICK]

Brainwashed as ever.

The official wanted poster for Osama Bin Laden at Official wanted poster for Bin Laden DOES NOT WANT HIM FOR EVENTS ON 911. Not enough evidence, apparently (so say the FBI).

Not enough evidence? Wasn't Osama saying how happy he was that it was done? Wasn't he the spiritual leader of the terror camps in Afghanistan?

Now I'm no fan of America - I lived there once for several years, and I'll never live there again.

But to pretend Osama had nothing to do with 9/11 is pretty dumb IMHO (and yes, we all know that he worked for the CIA in the 1980s but that doesn't mean he didn't have anything to do with 9/11 FFS!!!).

[SHERWICK]

Obama is a nut. He's also not at all good at public speaking (despite what many people think).

Obama's pretty much the best public speaker (in English) that I've seen - and I've seen a lot on both sides of the Atlantic.

[SHERWICK]

Sarah Palin. What a ******* thick cow. Not sure how she stacks up against Gordon Brown, though.

Palin is about 1 million times worse than Gordon Brown, believe it or not.

Try, if you can, to imagine a bizarre cross between Gordon Brown, Ed Balls, Hazel Blears and Jacqui Smith....

[SHERWICK]

Say what you want about Bush, he had to fight tooth and nail to win. Obama had the presidency handed to him by the MSM on a silver platter.

Yeah, we saw the 'fighting' his brother Jeb, Katherine Harris and James Baker did for him in Florida back in 2000 while he was safely tucked up in Texas. We rememebr the fawning over his 'brilliant performance' in the debates when he didn't manage to trip over his own tongue.

Bush's whole life was handed to him on a silver platter by Daddy Bush.

[Darkman]

New Avatar for you?

It appears we have an estate agent type among us...

[Darkman]

Obama's pretty much the best public speaker (in English) that I've seen - and I've seen a lot on both sides of the Atlantic.

+1

But to pretend Osama had nothing to do with 9/11 is pretty dumb IMHO (and yes, we all know that he worked for the CIA in the 1980s but that doesn't mean he didn't have anything to do with 9/11 FFS!!!).

Amen to that

[SNACR]

Not enough evidence? Wasn't Osama saying how happy he was that it was done? Wasn't he the spiritual leader of the terror camps in Afghanistan?

Now I'm no fan of America - I lived there once for several years, and I'll never live there again.

But to pretend Osama had nothing to do with 9/11 is pretty dumb IMHO (and yes, we all know that he worked for the CIA in the 1980s but that doesn't mean he didn't have anything to do with 9/11 FFS!!!).

Pretty confident he wasn't flying any of the planes.

I don't mind the lying and BS but, they're just so terrible at it.

If they'd just mocked up some footage of him putting a cat in a wheelie bin no-one would've ever questioned anything.

[the_duke_of_hazzard]

+1

I've never understood why some people hold such ardent views on a place they've never even visited.

I've been to America on 4 occasions and echo your sentiments. When abroad I always make it a practice to have conversations with local ordinary people. What I've learnt is that a lifetime of being fed by the media often gives you a skewed view of how things really are and that once you strip away the garnish the average person in any country has the same hopes aspirations and general beliefs as the next man in any other country.

My experience too.

Most Americans I've met are far more friendly, charming and down-to-earth than the vast majority of British people I've met.

Some are _mental_ though.

[SHERWICK]

What I simply don't get is the argument that, because Osama worked for the CIA in the 1980s, that proves he didn't have a large part in 9/11 and other terrorist attacks.

Very, very bizarre indeed.

[corevalue]

Not enough evidence? Wasn't Osama saying how happy he was that it was done? Wasn't he the spiritual leader of the terror camps in Afghanistan?

Now I'm no fan of America - I lived there once for several years, and I'll never live there again.

But to pretend Osama had nothing to do with 9/11 is pretty dumb IMHO (and yes, we all know that he worked for the CIA in the 1980s but that doesn't mean he didn't have anything to do with 9/11 FFS!!!).

So, if the official FBI statement is that they don't have enough evidence to link Osama to 9-11, that's not good enough for you? Who's the conspiracy theorist here? You'd rather believe the media?

I suppose you believe 9-11 is why we invaded Iraq as well.

[SHERWICK]

So, if the official FBI statement is that they don't have enough evidence to link Osama to 9-11, that's not good enough for you? Who's the conspiracy theorist here? You'd rather believe the media?

I suppose you believe 9-11 is why we invaded Iraq as well.

Do you believe Osama had anything to do with 9/11?

[SHERWICK]

So, if the official FBI statement is that they don't have enough evidence to link Osama to 9-11, that's not good enough for you? Who's the conspiracy theorist here? You'd rather believe the media?

I suppose you believe 9-11 is why we invaded Iraq as well.

Or, do you believe that Al Queda had anything to do with 9/11?

If not Al Queda and/or Osama, then who? (please don't say, the USA and/or Mossad flew the planes in the by remote control and blew the buildings up )

[SHERWICK]

Brainwashed as ever.

The official wanted poster for Osama Bin Laden at Official wanted poster for Bin Laden DOES NOT WANT HIM FOR EVENTS ON 911. Not enough evidence, apparently (so say the FBI).

Have the FBI said "there's not enough evidence'? No.

Have the FBI said they do/did not want him for events on 9/11? No.

This is what the FBI have said about him: "Bin Laden was a suspect in a number of terrorist attacks around the world in addition to the 9/11 attacks.

The mastermind of the attacks on September 11, 2001 that killed thousands of innocent men, women, and children has been killed."

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2011/may/binladen_050211/binladen_050211

I wonder why you don't link to that page?

[Leroast]

The Muckracker Report approached the FBI in 2006 to clarify why 911 was not listed on the OBL Most Wanted page

The Muckraker Report spoke with Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI. When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page, Tomb said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”

Surprised by the ease in which this FBI spokesman made such an astonishing statement, I asked, “How this was possible?” Tomb continued, “Bin Laden has not been formally charged in connection to 9/11.” I asked, “How does that work?” Tomb continued, “The FBI gathers evidence. Once evidence is gathered, it is turned over to the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice than decides whether it has enough evidence to present to a federal grand jury. In the case of the 1998 United States Embassies being bombed, Bin Laden has been formally indicted and charged by a grand jury. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connected Bin Laden to 9/11.”

Sherwick, take the time to read professor Griffins article, Building What? How SCADs Can Be Hidden in Plain Sight.

If you have any questions about the free-fall collapse of building 7, testimonial accounts of explosives or forensic evidence of explosives, Im happy to discuss.

[SHERWICK]

The Muckracker Report approached the FBI in 2006 to clarify why 911 was not listed on the OBL Most Wanted page

Sherwick, take the time to read professor Griffins article, Building What? How SCADs Can Be Hidden in Plain Sight.

If you have any questions about the free-fall collapse of building 7, testimonial accounts of explosives or forensic evidence of explosives, Im happy to discuss.

I direct you to my response above.

Also, may I ask you, do you think that Al Queda had anything to do with 9/11? Yes or no.