Eu Monolith Laws Supporting Pharma Giants

[Kurt Barlow]

I agree with both you and Kurt. There are charlatans in all forms of life or work. Beit berny Maddoff in finance, or some questionable herbal prescriptions.

I do think the Law needs to be beefed up but blanket bans are not right. There are still plenty of things not yet discovered, just look at the current wave of research going into Vit D for example.

The problem is, money.

Its not in the interests of Pharma companies to research things they cant make money on even if they wanted to, they need to be economically pragmatic, yet we need a system to investigate and research all things equally to overcome the absence of research in some areas of medicine which pharma companies cant make money out of.

Lets take Vit D one of my interests from a computer programmers perspective ( I say this becuase I try to look at things logically and unemotionally as best I can as its what I do ) anyway.

Generally speaking Vit D research coming out at the moment that look at taking higher doses to keep the blood level at optimum are all positive to some degree or another. Big Pharma cant make money out of Vit D yet its making some drugs work even better.

http://edrv.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/26/5/662

This is a paper from Lilly Research Laboratories, Eli Lilly and Company, Lilly Corporate Center, Indianapolis, Indiana 46285 a big pharma company and if you read this document you will see that they find their drugs work better with patients that have higher or optimum levels of Vit D.

Now, the thing is if in 2011 we are only just discovering (ie its now gaining momemtum in numbers of research projects) the benefits from being out in the sunshine and Vit D, what other (herbal) remedies are waiting to be discovered?

The Big Pharma companies do sponsor universities but they also get a say in what sort of research and areas of studies for some pupils. This again limits the number of potential discoveries becuase the efforts are concentrated into money making areas and not areas where it just needs the research done to back up the claims but is of no monetary importance other than its cuts costs and removes revenue from the big pharma companies and the Govt from reduced tax.

Just like the bankers are there to make money to the best of their abilities, pharma companies will do so as well. The root problem is the current monetary system is geared for one way growth and cant adapt to a system where the absence of growth can still mean profits, hence we have to have these laws being introduced to keep the system going even though its probably not morally right and ultimately a danger to itself, maybe the system needs saving from itself?

Exactly - a Canadian study found that dosing MS patients with 14000iu a day of Vitamin D for a year was more effective than the standard dose of Interferon without any significant side effects. Numerous other studies support the use of Vit D as a primary or supplementary therapy.

Of course there is no real money to be made in Vitamin D so Neurologists carry on recommending the 400iu a day substandard dose that prevents rickets and carry on with interferon at huge cost.

Annual cost of interferon £10K plus. Annual cost of Vit D £30.

On another subject a friend of mine who has muscle cramps following two major surgery's was prescribed all sorts of anti spasm medication with bad side effects. None of it worked. I suggested he try magnesium supplements as calcium - magnesium imbalance often causes muscle spasms. He took 600mg a day and within a month swears the cramps are largely gone. Allowing for the possibility of placebo effect do you see the pattern here. Again no money to be made in magnesium supplements......

Medicine is all about peddling what makes money not cures

[Ruffneck]

Other than a few isolated cases of people downing huge quantities of herbal supplements or ignoring contra indications there is no evidence of any significant damage to peoples health.

I can think of a few but the few cases where it does happen are hyped up big time by the media so it is easy to recall them.

A few cases with 'Royal Jelly' , can't remember the health issues it caused in the people affected just the product.

Yohimbe has been known to cause blood pressure problems and lead to heart attacks in some people.

Licorice has also caused high blood pressure but the case i recall the woman was eating around 300 grams of licorice for months and months.It takes quite some time for the compounds to build up.There is also a glyrrcic free version of licorice out which alleviates this issue.

Stevia can cause severe hypoglycemia for those prone to it.

Also a chinese medicinal herb that caused kidney failure in a few patients although that was already banned in the EU and was used illegally in that formulation so a null point.

My knowledge isn't as good as some folks but the point is , get a few professional herbalists with vast knowledge and get them to make a website with precautions/warnings on natural supplements(not to be taken by pregnant women , not to be taken for people with diabetes etc) , interactions with big pharma drugs and so forth.Then have all herbal medicines sold in the EU have a link to the website.

[Ruffneck]

Re : Useless big pharma drugs.Here is something i read a few years ago , the FDA approved a drug for creating bigger/wider eyelashes.For when mascara just won't cut it.Side effects include nausea , headaches , dizzyness , all the usual suspects.

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/12/30/eyelash-growth-drug.html

The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved a new prescription drug, Latisse, for lengthening eyelashes. The active ingredient in the drug was first used to treat glaucoma. Then the manufacturer, Allergan, realized that one of the side effects, eyelash growth, was marketable. From Scientific American:

The med... should be available by March from a doctor or with a prescription from one. Price tag: $120 for a month’s supply. According to manufacturer Allergan, the drug usually nets results two to four months after users start it. Potential side effects: Some 4 percent of users experience eye itching and redness, and it may also temporarily darken the skin of the eyelid, according to the company...

It's not clear exactly why Latisse promotes eyelash growth, but the company speculates that the drug may increase the length and amount of hair that sprouts during the growth cycle. It’s possible that the drug may also spur eyebrow and scalp hair growth, doctors told the Wall Street Journal. But Allergan spokesperson Heather Katt says the company hasn't explored using Latisse for those purposes.

[Kurt Barlow]

I can think of a few but the few cases where it does happen are hyped up big time by the media so it is easy to recall them.

A few cases with 'Royal Jelly' , can't remember the health issues it caused in the people affected just the product.

Yohimbe has been known to cause blood pressure problems and lead to heart attacks in some people.

Licorice has also caused high blood pressure but the case i recall the woman was eating around 300 grams of licorice for months and months.It takes quite some time for the compounds to build up.There is also a glyrrcic free version of licorice out which alleviates this issue.

Stevia can cause severe hypoglycemia for those prone to it.

Also a chinese medicinal herb that caused kidney failure in a few patients although that was already banned in the EU and was used illegally in that formulation so a null point.

My knowledge isn't as good as some folks but the point is , get a few professional herbalists with vast knowledge and get them to make a website with precautions/warnings on natural supplements(not to be taken by pregnant women , not to be taken for people with diabetes etc) , interactions with big pharma drugs and so forth.Then have all herbal medicines sold in the EU have a link to the website.

So basically legislation to protect a few idiots who don't read the label whilst removing freedom of choice for the rest of us.

[Kurt Barlow]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13215010

so there we have it, maybe too many people were getting better without paying for a treatment plan which is obviously unthinkable to the fiat system.

what's up for regulating banning next? i reckon controlled sales of herbs and spices used in cooking.

I think you are right. To protect us all from charlatans and ourselves the Government / EUSSR plans to issue you with red, yellow and green food supplements tailored to your particular nutritional needs. No need to think for yourself as nanny does it all for you.

[Ruffneck]

So basically legislation to protect a few idiots who don't read the label whilst removing freedom of choice for the rest of us.

Yes.

Heres a post i made on a seperate health forum about 6 months ago , shows how loony some of these guys have become.

New scam product from Jim Humble - "MMS2"

He's basically advising people to go out and buy calcium hypochlorite from a pool supplies store , ignore the warnings on the pack , stuff the powder into capsules and suck them down.

It's people like this making outrageous claims like curing 10,000 AIDS patients in Africa that damage the natural health industry.

http://jimhumble.biz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38&Itemid=66

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_hypochlorite

Calcium hypochlorite is a chemical compound with formula Ca(ClO)2. It is widely used for water treatment and as a bleaching agent (bleaching powder). This chemical is considered to be relatively stable and has greater available chlorine than sodium hypochlorite (liquid bleach).

Calcium hypochlorite is best kept in a cool dry place away from any organic material. It is known to undergo self heating and rapid decomposition accompanied by the release of toxic chlorine gas.

Now i'm not for banning natural remedies but sick people are vulnerable to hucksters like Jim Humble , the man should be behind bars.

[Kurt Barlow]

Yes.

Heres a post i made on a seperate health forum about 6 months ago , shows how loony some of these guys have become.

Now i'm not for banning natural remedies but sick people are vulnerable to hucksters like Jim Humble , the man should be behind bars.

Not the same though as buying from Holland & Barrett or Boots. I dont ever recall a high street retailer promoting the consumption of bleach

[connor]

Not the same though as buying from Holland & Barrett or Boots. I dont ever recall a high street retailer promoting the consumption of bleach

To be fair, I am not supporting the fine detail of the legislation - I haven't studied it, and I generally am in favour of as little government inteference as possible.

What I was strongly disagreeing with was the suggestion this was some state sponsered action to force pharmaceuticals on the proles. It is not. It is an attempt to make fringe medicine more accountable, because it is one of the areas in which individual consumers cannot possibly make reasoned judgments on the claims of vendors.

[winkie]

....brewing myself a nice cup of borage tea as we speak....what are they going to do about it?

[Kurt Barlow]

To be fair, I am not supporting the fine detail of the legislation - I haven't studied it, and I generally am in favour of as little government inteference as possible.

What I was strongly disagreeing with was the suggestion this was some state sponsered action to force pharmaceuticals on the proles. It is not. It is an attempt to make fringe medicine more accountable, because it is one of the areas in which individual consumers cannot possibly make reasoned judgments on the claims of vendors.

Trading Standards Legislation already deals with snake oil Pedlars.

I will say it again for about the 100th time - where is the evidence the vendors purport that their products cure or alleviate specific medical conditions. They do not - this is a myth. I have gingko biloba, pine bark extract, resveratrol, and cranberry extract and none make any such claim on the labelling or elsewhere.

This Legislation is nothing more than Big Pharma Mafia closing down the legitimate sale of herbal supplements without any tangible safety case to do so.

[Kurt Barlow]

....brewing myself a nice cup of borage tea as we speak....what are they going to do about it?

this could be outlawed too.

[Kurt Barlow]

To be fair, I am not supporting the fine detail of the legislation - I haven't studied it, and I generally am in favour of as little government inteference as possible.

What I was strongly disagreeing with was the suggestion this was some state sponsered action to force pharmaceuticals on the proles. It is not. It is an attempt to make fringe medicine more accountable, because it is one of the areas in which individual consumers cannot possibly make reasoned judgments on the claims of vendors.

This Directive has been driven almost exclusively by the Pharmaceutical industry stating that cranberry concentrate for example should undergo the same testing as a pharmaceutical drug.

[connor]

This Directive has been driven almost exclusively by the Pharmaceutical industry stating that cranberry concentrate for example should undergo the same testing as a pharmaceutical drug.

We will need to agree to differ. Have a good day!