Number79 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Banker bailout ....£850billion Banker bonus.....£7.6 billion Welfare bill....£202 billion Wonder what the 'cuts' would have been without the bank $crewup? the bailout was a loan, something that has not disappeared and should be repaid. The printing of money debased the currency and robbed us all but wasnt a debt. welfare is an expense. our national debt is £900billion http://www.debtbombshell.com/public-spending.htm what was printed for the banks doesnt come into it. Yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa3 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Is this more about ethics than morality? I agree with the point you make by the way. Is the structure unethical, and those trapped within it are made by force to behave ethically? These ethics are enforced through education and fear. I read something the other day where it was claimed there are only 26 TV detector vans in the whole of the UK. I have no idea if this is true. Point - why do people buy licences when they are fairly sure detection is impossible? The fear of getting caught or an ethical decision to do the right thing? The Chavs running wild during the nights in towns are learning that the state cannot lock everyone up. In fact in thewhole nation there may only be a few thousand spare prison cells. And the paper work and legal process involved in each punishment can only be given to a few at a time. So the Chavs run wild and do whatever they want, while the police pretend not to notice them. The only way to control people is to give them a lot to lose. Like a fireman with a good job. Then threaten to take it away if they don't do what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buccaneer Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Bailing out the banks was a pivotal moment in my life actually. Before that moment I was fairly pro what we all live and work for in the West, but after it I gave it a lot of thought and in fact it turned me against a lot of what I used to support. I am certain I am only one of millions. What I saw unfold in that period was political and economic corruption and debauchery and looting of a kind we're told only happens in the third world. So, I saw the light. Precisely my experience. Any moral obligation that I felt to contribute to the system evaporated. All that remains is the legal requirement which in common with my banker and political friends I can choose whether or not to observe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Relaxation Suite Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Precisely my experience. Any moral obligation that I felt to contribute to the system evaporated. All that remains is the legal requirement which in common with my banker and political friends I can choose whether or not to observe. Exactly. A calm, ordered state is actually enforced not by the legal sphere but by the ethical sphere. I mean to say that 62 million people cannot be controlled and directed purely by legal/political means via laws and CCTV camera surveillance, etc. These things can only monitor a tiny fraction of the population and punish and make examples of it to let the wider population what can happen to them if they misbehave. In fact the massive bulk of the population was kept in-line by its own self-enforcing ethics, as everyone thought this was the best way to proceed. People did the right thing even when they were not being watched. However, since the banking bailout it seems to me many people have adopted a different way to proceed. They have seen the corruption in Westminster and the looting of the public funds to bail out the private banking dynasties and they have decided that they no longer have any ethical duty to the state to behave when no one is watching. In my view, this is the real damage that the so-called GFC did to the fabric of the nation - it turned mild-mannered and law-abiding ethical Britain into a cynical constituency of people who no longer feel the need to "do the right thing" when no one else is watching. They do not necessarily support the state any longer, which previously could pretty much be taken for granted. Shared ethics hold a population together, not the fear of legal sanctions, and with these developments we see a nation degrade itself because it watched its leaders and wealthy degrade themselves first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Exactly. A calm, ordered state is actually enforced not by the legal sphere but by the ethical sphere. I mean to say that 62 million people cannot be controlled and directed purely by legal/political means via laws and CCTV camera surveillance, etc. These things can only monitor a tiny fraction of the population and punish and make examples of it to let the wider population what can happen to them if they misbehave. In fact the massive bulk of the population was kept in-line by its own self-enforcing ethics, as everyone thought this was the best way to proceed. People did the right thing even when they were not being watched. However, since the banking bailout it seems to me many people have adopted a different way to proceed. They have seen the corruption in Westminster and the looting of the public funds to bail out the private banking dynasties and they have decided that they no longer have any ethical duty to the state to behave when no one is watching. In my view, this is the real damage that the so-called GFC did to the fabric of the nation - it turned mild-mannered and law-abiding ethical Britain into a cynical constituency of people who no longer feel the need to "do the right thing" when no one else is watching. They do not necessarily support the state any longer, which previously could pretty much be taken for granted. Shared ethics hold a population together, not the fear of legal sanctions, and with these developments we see a nation degrade itself because it watched its leaders and wealthy degrade themselves first. I think that the expenses scandal did at least as much damage if not more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 The Chavs running wild during the nights in towns are learning that the state cannot lock everyone up. In fact in thewhole nation there may only be a few thousand spare prison cells. And the paper work and legal process involved in each punishment can only be given to a few at a time. So the Chavs run wild and do whatever they want, while the police pretend not to notice them. The only way to control people is to give them a lot to lose. Like a fireman with a good job. Then threaten to take it away if they don't do what you want. I take it you've read George Orwell's 1984.. In which the 'lower classes' can be defiant towards the police and merely get the odd beating in return, because they have no political organisation, and hence represent no threat. It is the middle and upper classes who are kept on an extremely tight leash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I think that the expenses scandal did at least as much damage if not more. You mean, the expenses scandal that hit just at the moment the public's attention was very much directed towards the pay and perks of the Bankers? Not saying that it was anything but a scandal, but it must have been known by the press that MPs were getting away with some stupid expenses claims for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stig Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I think that the expenses scandal did at least as much damage if not more. You're right. Over the last few years there have been several key moments that have made me question my work/life balance. Not least of which has been my disappointment in the new govt. I now realise that you only vote for the colour of their tie. I'm now planning to retire from my 9-5 job in 3 years (i will be 35 years old), and live off benefits and whatever i can scrape together. Most of the people i see every day seem to do very well for themselves without being in an office. Time i had a piece of that. The govt will be getting nothing from me. I live in an area where i could do without a car. I have room to grow veg. I will squirrel away savings into shiny metal. I will become a net "negative" on the govt purse, rather than the substantial "positive" that i've been so far. THAT will be my protest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erranta Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 <br />I take it you've read George Orwell's 1984..<br /><br />In which the 'lower classes' can be defiant towards the police and merely get the odd beating in return, because they have no political organisation, and hence represent no threat. It is the middle and upper classes who are kept on an extremely tight leash.<br /><br /><br /><br />1984 = inner party, outer party and everyone else! 1984 was originally going to be called "The last man in Europe" Writing about Totalitarianism - you can already see 'they' have formed the 'inner party' who rule over us now (all the political parties are the same whoever you vote for - infested with corrupt OX-CAM Foxes) 1984 ++ = 22 Twin Towers attack represents '11' - was 'them' announcing/invoking their evil globilisation plan - World Trade Center Attack in 2001 on Rosh Hashanah (Feast of Trumpets) "The number ELEVEN is associated usually with DISORDER, IMPERFECTION, DISORGANISATION, JUDGMENT & DISINTEGRATION all through the Bible" The "Big Society" is what they will manipulate and coerce the population with - certain persons in our Govt are dictating to University think-tanks how the policies should be formulated right at this minute! They only get their full research funding this year if they agree to these new policies! Utter Totallitarian/fascist type Govt corruption beneath the glossy veneer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erranta Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 <br /><a href='http://www.guardian....by-people-power</a><br /><br /> <blockquote>Dutch bankers' bonuses axed by people powerAn online campaign has overturned ING's executive pay policy, and the mood in Amsterdam is getting increasingly militant about bonuses at bailed-out banks<br /><br />Britain has a rival when it comes to bashing bankers. After a furious row over pay packages at Amsterdam-based ING in which thousands of customers threatened to make mass withdrawals, the Netherlands is now vying for the title of Europe's most bonus-hating country.<br /><br />A growing Dutch political storm could end with a <b>blanket ban on bonuses to financiers who work for institutions bailed out by the taxpayer</b>.</blockquote><br /><br />Pity the march against cuts (a necessary thing IMO) could not have been focused on the troughers in our country including the bint in Suffolk. Nice to see the banksters being targetted specifically. Perhaps a lesson for us to follow here.<br /><br /><br /><br />Realist bear is taking the pee out of you all >>> spot the "ING" in the following from Orwells 1984! His reference to Suffolk is because 'the bint' @ Ipswich = code for River 'Orwell' "Winston Smiff was picked up by the growing ING-soc (newspeak for "English Socialism") movement, placed into an orphanage and eventually given a job in the Outer Party" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 <br /><br /><br /> 1984 = inner party, outer party and everyone else! 1984 was originally going to be called "The last man in Europe" Writing about Totalitarianism - you can already see 'they' have formed the 'inner party' who rule over us now (all the political parties are the same whoever you vote for - infested with corrupt OX-CAM Foxes) 1984 ++ = 22 Twin Towers attack represents '11' - was 'them' announcing/invoking their evil globilisation plan - World Trade Center Attack in 2001 on Rosh Hashanah (Feast of Trumpets) "The number ELEVEN is associated usually with DISORDER, IMPERFECTION, DISORGANISATION, JUDGMENT & DISINTEGRATION all through the Bible" The "Big Society" is what they will manipulate and coerce the population with - certain persons in our Govt are dictating to University think-tanks how the policies should be formulated right at this minute! They only get their full research funding this year if they agree to these new policies! Utter Totallitarian/fascist type Govt corruption beneath the glossy veneer! Yeah, yeah, yeah, tell us something we didn't already know.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erranta Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 <br />Yeah, yeah, yeah, tell us something we didn't already know..<br /> Not ALL '33' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democorruptcy Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I think I would put this post down as the BEST POST I have ever read on HPC THANKYOU You think "Anyone who is sitting on a large pile of excess capital, never came about it through hard work" is true? Where is this money tree where you pull the notes off? ThankSPACE you in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 <br /><br /><br /> 1984 ++ = 22 Groundbreaking for the World Trade Center took place on August 5, 1966++=22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Banker bailout ....£850billion Banker bonus.....£7.6 billion Welfare bill....£202 billion Wonder what the 'cuts' would have been without the bank $crewup? It was reported recently that banking contributes about £50 billion a year in tax to the UK. So £850 billion taxpayer bailout is about 17 years of banking taxes. They don't contribute anything to the UK economy - on balance they take more from it than they ever give. Even if one day they do pay the bailout back (as if the taxpayer will see a benefit from it as it'll more likely be squandered by the government in some other way) the damage, disruption and disorder they've inflicted on the UK economy will far outweigh that. They might have contributed to some extent before they became totally endemically fraudulent, bent and crooked but not anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erranta Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 <br />It was reported recently that banking contributes about £50 billion a year in tax to the UK. <br /><br />So £850 billion taxpayer bailout is about 17 years of banking taxes. <br /><br />They don't contribute anything to the UK economy - on balance they take more from it than they ever give. <br /><br />Even if one day they do pay the bailout back (as if the taxpayer will see a benefit from it as it'll more likely be squandered by the government in some other way) the damage, disruption and disorder they've inflicted on the UK economy will far outweigh that.<br /><br />They might have contributed to some extent before they became totally endemically fraudulent, bent and crooked but not anymore.<br /> Banks give £60 Billion a year to Govt after off-shore and other highly dubious "legal" tax avoidance (whilst screwing the population in every usury way they can). They have taken £2.4 Trillion from ordinary British people to keep themselves 'afloat' - whilst they operate insolvent. The tax take will reduce each year because they are allowed to offset their CDO etc 'losses' for at least next 5 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Welfare is our biggest liability and whoever said otherwise is wrong. http://www.debtbombshell.com/public-spending.htm Welfare and Pensions. Strange that they don't separate out the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 It was reported recently that banking contributes about £50 billion a year in tax to the UK. So £850 billion taxpayer bailout is about 17 years of banking taxes. They don't contribute anything to the UK economy - on balance they take more from it than they ever give. Even if one day they do pay the bailout back (as if the taxpayer will see a benefit from it as it'll more likely be squandered by the government in some other way) the damage, disruption and disorder they've inflicted on the UK economy will far outweigh that. They might have contributed to some extent before they became totally endemically fraudulent, bent and crooked but not anymore. It was recently calculated that the banks actually have a negative value to the economy destroying roughly £7 of value for every £1 they create. Therefore it would make sense to tax them out of existence and just give every citizen a citizens wage or bursary and if people then want to raise money for investment they'll need to get it from savings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BALD MAN Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 It was recently calculated that the banks actually have a negative value to the economy destroying roughly £7 of value for every £1 they create. Therefore it would make sense to tax them out of existence and just give every citizen a citizens wage or bursary and if people then want to raise money for investment they'll need to get it from savings. We could also regulate them back to normality and not just allow them to remain as gambling casinos only benefiting their overpaid management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 We could also regulate them back to normality and not just allow them to remain as gambling casinos only benefiting their overpaid management. Room 101 for you, son.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Creation Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I think I would put this post down as the BEST POST I have ever read on HPC THANKYOU Really? The best ever? You seem easily pleased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Really? The best ever? You seem easily pleased. Well yes maybe BEST EVER was a bit over the top . Tell you what let's withdraw that statement and replace it with something else . Here goes " It piss-s over anything you have ever written " hows that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Bear Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Of course, once upon a time a banker was someone who owned a bank or a worthwhile portion of a bank. If the bank lost money that banker lost money. He had skin in the game. Various inheritance taxes etc. have killed off the idea that a person or family could own a worthwhile part of a normal bank, how many people called Loyd own Loyds? These days a bank is owned by stockholders who have nothing to do with the running of the bank. The people we refer to these days as bankers are the people who run the banks. Their official remit is to maximise stockholder value, nothing else. The official remit has of course turned into maximise apparent stockholder value while rewarding themselves as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Creation Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 <br /><br /><br /> 1984 = inner party, outer party and everyone else! 1984 was originally going to be called "The last man in Europe" Writing about Totalitarianism - you can already see 'they' have formed the 'inner party' who rule over us now (all the political parties are the same whoever you vote for - infested with corrupt OX-CAM Foxes) 1984 ++ = 22 Twin Towers attack represents '11' - was 'them' announcing/invoking their evil globilisation plan - World Trade Center Attack in 2001 on Rosh Hashanah (Feast of Trumpets) "The number ELEVEN is associated usually with DISORDER, IMPERFECTION, DISORGANISATION, JUDGMENT & DISINTEGRATION all through the Bible" The "Big Society" is what they will manipulate and coerce the population with - certain persons in our Govt are dictating to University think-tanks how the policies should be formulated right at this minute! They only get their full research funding this year if they agree to these new policies! Utter Totallitarian/fascist type Govt corruption beneath the glossy veneer! 80770ck5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Creation Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Well yes maybe BEST EVER was a bit over the top . Tell you what let's withdraw that statement and replace it with something else . Here goes " It piss-s over anything you have ever written " hows that ? What? you've read everything? You must be a fan. Don't take it personally, I just enjoy baiting sycophants.(especially socialist ones) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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