Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Realistbear

Ugly Mood In Amsterdam Forces Banksters To Return Their Bonuses

Recommended Posts

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/mar/27/dutch-bankers-bonuses-axed-by-people-power

Dutch bankers' bonuses axed by people powerAn online campaign has overturned ING's executive pay policy, and the mood in Amsterdam is getting increasingly militant about bonuses at bailed-out banks
Britain has a rival when it comes to bashing bankers. After a furious row over pay packages at Amsterdam-based ING in which thousands of customers threatened to make mass withdrawals, the Netherlands is now vying for the title of Europe's most bonus-hating country.
A growing Dutch political storm could end with a
blanket ban on bonuses to financiers who work for institutions bailed out by the taxpayer
.

Pity the march against cuts (a necessary thing IMO) could not have been focused on the troughers in our country including the bint in Suffolk. Nice to see the banksters being targetted specifically. Perhaps a lesson for us to follow here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/mar/27/dutch-bankers-bonuses-axed-by-people-power

Dutch bankers' bonuses axed by people powerAn online campaign has overturned ING's executive pay policy, and the mood in Amsterdam is getting increasingly militant about bonuses at bailed-out banks
Britain has a rival when it comes to bashing bankers. After a furious row over pay packages at Amsterdam-based ING in which thousands of customers threatened to make mass withdrawals, the Netherlands is now vying for the title of Europe's most bonus-hating country.
A growing Dutch political storm could end with a
blanket ban on bonuses to financiers who work for institutions bailed out by the taxpayer
.

Pity the march against cuts (a necessary thing IMO) could not have been focused on the troughers in our country including the bint in Suffolk. Nice to see the banksters being targetted specifically. Perhaps a lesson for us to follow here.

+1

Our Banksters won't be worried though as they've got Labour in their pocket and likewise the Coalition. Any possible challenge immediately runs out of steam as our media are so willing to publicize the "cuts". We know the truth but the sheeple don't and are happier to blame the Coalition for the economic woes. In my mind there is no willingness from the right to tell the truth in some vain attempt to secure a second term. :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The average man in the nation, who works hard and is the backbone of our society and economy, needs to believe there is some semblance of cosmic fairness in the system. So the people who have benefitted the most the last decade should see the biggest reductions if there is to be austerity.

But the average man will never support austerity for himself, if he sees bankers giving themselves into the millions in bonuses. The Tories will be a one term government, and be out of power for a long time afterwards if they push austerity but protect every rich person from cuts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.guardian....by-people-power

Dutch bankers' bonuses axed by people powerAn online campaign has overturned ING's executive pay policy, and the mood in Amsterdam is getting increasingly militant about bonuses at bailed-out banks
Britain has a rival when it comes to bashing bankers. After a furious row over pay packages at Amsterdam-based ING in which thousands of customers threatened to make mass withdrawals, the Netherlands is now vying for the title of Europe's most bonus-hating country.
A growing Dutch political storm could end with a
blanket ban on bonuses to financiers who work for institutions bailed out by the taxpayer
.

Pity the march against cuts (a necessary thing IMO) could not have been focused on the troughers in our country including the bint in Suffolk. Nice to see the banksters being targetted specifically. Perhaps a lesson for us to follow here.

What is wrong with us as a people? Given the size of our banks (and the bailouts we've paid for) it is amazing how little has been done

to stop the bankers continuing to rip us off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

here's the rub:

Now the Netherlands is going through a painful period of introspection and soul-searching. Politicians have voted to implement a 100% retrospective tax on all bonuses paid to executives at institutions that received state aid as a result of the financial crisis. In other words, no banker should get a bonus until the debt is cleared, and they should return payments made since 2008.

until the ebt is cleared.

for the uk that means the sheeple accepting that their cardboard box replica is not actually worth 200k, and that filling their working week with 40 hours of meetings doesn't deserve a 50k wage as it's completely non-productive.

it's catch 22 and the bankers have (the majority of) us right where they want us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It just shows what can be done if people are prepared to make the effort.

Love it!

The bankers' response that high remuneration is vital to retain talent and prevent Dutch financiers from defecting to overseas banks is given short shrift by Polhout. He says: "Let them go abroad if they don't like it her;, there are plenty of clever people who will take their place and work for less. Good riddance, as far as I am concerned."

Now the ball is in the court of finance minister Jan Kees de Jager, who must decide how to respond to a proposal by parliament calling for the return of bonuses by all executives at state-supported banks. On a recent television show, he said such a law would be difficult to implement and would hit bankers on average salaries who receive bonuses of just a few thousand euros. But in today's highly charged political atmosphere, de Jager knows that doing nothing is probably not an option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you look around there really is no public will to tackle the banksters, its almost as if they live a charmed life.

Bob Diamond was outraged that he had to face a select committee and voiced his resentment, it was hardly reported.

As soon as a group of people start to generate some consensus on the banks they get sidetracked into the government trying to reduce the deficit and then lose their way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The average man in the nation, who works hard and is the backbone of our society and economy, needs to believe there is some semblance of cosmic fairness in the system. So the people who have benefitted the most the last decade should see the biggest reductions if there is to be austerity.

But the average man will never support austerity for himself, if he sees bankers giving themselves into the millions in bonuses. The Tories will be a one term government, and be out of power for a long time afterwards if they push austerity but protect every rich person from cuts.

Spot on. The coalition's problem isn't the austerity, but the fact that no-one believes that it is being borne equally, or indeed at all by the financial elite. Ultimately it will be their downfall.

I actually think that austerity cuts would be relatively easily implemented if the policies that the Dutch were introducing happened as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spot on. The coalition's problem isn't the austerity, but the fact that no-one believes that it is being borne equally, or indeed at all by the financial elite. Ultimately it will be their downfall.

I actually think that austerity cuts would be relatively easily implemented if the policies that the Dutch were introducing happened as well.

It will be their downfall only because thanks to 13 years of liebour the majority of the country are now either on benefits or in the public sector.

What is the problem with cuts? The public sector is too big and our benefit system far too generous.

Anyway, the best thing about this story is that ING crumbled having been threatened with mass withdrawals. I await the day that British people are angry enough to work in real numbers in a way that will work instead of just smashing windows and burning bins.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyway, the best thing about this story is that ING crumbled having been threatened with mass withdrawals. I await the day that British people are angry enough to work in real numbers in a way that will work instead of just smashing windows and burning bins.

Problem is people threatening mass withdrawals will not all get their cash as it is not there and even if they do they have to put it in another bank.

What other way can British people get angry enough ? and what can they do ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What other way can British people get angry enough ? and what can they do ?

A long mass general strike. Which suddenly makes the governments bonds (which as you are aware exist to sell future labour of the people) suddenly become worthless.

Two things happen:

Government changes course to appease the people.

The more likely outcome will be that the government being the government and backed by force/fiat (which is backed by guns) remove the thin masquerade they have of being civilised and start shooting people to force them back to work, Spanish ATC had soldiers 'guarding' the ATC folks to force them back to work. We have a Tianamen in the UK martial law is declared for the next 50 years (al la Taiwan) and people shuffle off back to work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It will be their downfall only because thanks to 13 years of liebour the majority of the country are now either on benefits or in the public sector.

What is the problem with cuts? The public sector is too big and our benefit system far too generous.

I'm not sure you got what I was saying. People don't have a problem with cuts, they have a problem because with every banker bonus story they can see 'we're all in it together' is a bare faced lie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is the problem with cuts? The public sector is too big and our benefit system far too generous.

On this issue, our benefits system is one of the least generous in the EU. Now I personally would scrap it and replace with a citizen's income, but let's get the facts straight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure you got what I was saying. People don't have a problem with cuts, they have a problem because with every banker bonus story they can see 'we're all in it together' is a bare faced lie.

Spot on.

"All in it together" rings hollow everytime we read that a greedy council worker is earning more than the PM or a bankster is skimming millions while the taxpayer continues to carry their bank.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/mar/27/dutch-bankers-bonuses-axed-by-people-power

Britain has a rival when it comes to bashing bankers. After a furious row over pay packages at Amsterdam-based ING in which thousands of customers threatened to make mass withdrawals, the Netherlands is now vying for the title of Europe's most bonus-hating country.

In mainland Europe, when the masses get pissed off, things happen and the political establishment must respond.

In the UK, when the masses get pissed of, we all just like to sit around and whinge whilst not being prepared to do take any proactive action.There may be some staged protest, in which the odd shop window gets paint thrown on it, at which point we all decide that things have gotten too rowdy and that we should all go back to a whinging slumber in our armchairs whilst it is business as usual at the Bank of Shafteryerupthearse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On this issue, our benefits system is one of the least generous in the EU.

Ok, I'll bite but only because I know it is going to keep you occupied for a long time. Show me the evidence and the figures.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure you got what I was saying. People don't have a problem with cuts, they have a problem because with every banker bonus story they can see 'we're all in it together' is a bare faced lie.

I know what you are saying and I agree mostly. There are a lot of overpaid public sector workers that should have their pay slashed but I doubt that it is quite that simple.

As for bankers, we bailed the banks out, we didnt take control of the day to day running of them. I dont care if they pay bonuses to those that perform and bring the day that the taxpayer is repaid even closer. Like them or loath them the banks bring a lot of money to the pot and killing the golden goose benefits none of us. So long as their debt is repaid to the state with interest then what is there to get excited about? You and I cant change it and we should be more annoyed about the banks hiking up their mortgage rates and dropping saver rates to rebuild profits than giving out bonuses.

We are not all in this together because we are not all equal and anyone that believed that has had their brain well and truly washed with socialist none sense by teflon tony and his crew

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In mainland Europe, when the masses get pissed off, things happen and the political establishment must respond.

In the UK, when the masses get pissed of, we all just like to sit around and whinge whilst not being prepared to do take any proactive action.There may be some staged protest, in which the odd shop window gets paint thrown on it, at which point we all decide that things have gotten too rowdy and that we should all go back to a whinging slumber in our armchairs whilst it is business as usual at the Bank of Shafteryerupthearse.

OK then, what about on Saturday 23/4/2011

1) Everybody goes to their bank at about 11am and withdraws £23.04 from their current account.

2) Then go to the back of the queue

3) Then make another withdrawal including notes and coins

4) Then if you have time to do more go to the stage 2 if not go to stage 5

5) Deposit any money you don't want to take away and tell the cashier that if bankers don't give their bonuses back you will return on Saturday 23/5/2011 and withdraw all your money.

It should be a peaceful protest and if enough people did it queues would form outside all the banks.

We could also make it a no shopping day.

Our government is totally dependent on our consumption. At the moment executive pay is spiralling and prices are rising to pay for their greed. We should all refuse to buy anything for a day and insist that executive pay levels are reduced so prices can be reduced.

Somebody tell the facebookers, twitterers, etc to arrange it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know what you are saying and I agree mostly. There are a lot of overpaid public sector workers that should have their pay slashed but I doubt that it is quite that simple.

You are a regular on the Gold/precious metals forum richyc, which means that you have a fair bit of excess capital around which u have turned into PMs. Feel that you 'earned' that excess capital did you? With your hard work or extraordinary talents?

Anyone who is sitting on a large pile of excess capital, never came about it through hard work. I know very well from my own experience that as soon as you roll up your sleeves for a hard days work, then that is the day you are resigning yourself to the poorhouse. I could draw a graph which would show an inverse relationship between 'how hard I worked' and 'how much money I earned'. The easier the work, the bigger the money.

Leave the public sector workers, who are still able to bring home a liveable pay check with humane terms and conditions of employment, alone.

As for bankers, we bailed the banks out, we didnt take control of the day to day running of them. I dont care if they pay bonuses to those that perform and bring the day that the taxpayer is repaid even closer. Like them or loath them the banks bring a lot of money to the pot and killing the golden goose benefits none of us. So long as their debt is repaid to the state with interest then what is there to get excited about? You and I cant change it and we should be more annoyed about the banks hiking up their mortgage rates and dropping saver rates to rebuild profits than giving out bonuses.

We are not all in this together because we are not all equal and anyone that believed that has had their brain well and truly washed with socialist none sense by teflon tony and his crew

You really dont seem to be clued up on any of the issues here.

I think it was the owner of Easyjet who said:

"If you think safety is expensive, just try having an accident"

Businesses who suffer big accident can be put out of business. For this reason, thier is a very anti-accident corporate culture and when accidents happen, corporate profits are destroyed, bonuses are eliminated, and heads roll. The managers of our financial system however, suffered a devasting (completely forseeable by anyone willing to open thier eyes) 'accident', yet instead of all the consequences which should have been in line for those exhibiting such a neglect in 'duty of care' (fired, zero bonues, prison sentences), the government has stepped in (at the taxpayers expense) and made everything sweet for those directly involved in the reckless financial activity that caused the crash in the first place. Unlike an airline which has a crash, or an oil company which has a spill, no real shock has been administered to the financial management class and therefore where is the incentive for the change in behaviour that is desperately needed to avoid the exact same kind of financial risks, liberties, and fraud being taken, which will result in the exact same thing happening all over again? If everytime a boy racer smashed his car into a wall, the whole physical world turned into cushions and foam, and he escapes personally unscathed, is he going to learn any lesson at all about not driving like a lunatic?

As you may suspect, I find your comment alluding to "not cutting the bonuses of those performing managers who can turn the banks back to profitability", utterly laughable. The economical implications that the reality of returning the banks to a level of profitability enough to pay back the taxpayer, is another matter altogether. In reality, the banks are using all the hand outs, to quietly deleverage thier the mind numbing volume of toxic derivatives from thier balance sheets. This ensures that the billionaires who deal in these 'black financial spells', claw back as much value as possible whilst the great unwashed (including your pompous self), can go eat cake.

From your ridiculous comments, I deduct that any wealth you have, you have come by relatively easily although this is something your ego dont like to admit to. You have never really had to work your brain hard, and therefore you lazily apply all the values, that someone who has had it too easy all too readily embraces, (we are not all in this together cos we are not all equal), to real world problems and scenarios, whose rigour renders your conclusions borderline insane.

Thank you please.

OK then, what about on Saturday 23/4/2011

1) Everybody goes to their bank at about 11am and withdraws £23.04 from their current account.

2) Then go to the back of the queue

3) Then make another withdrawal including notes and coins

4) Then if you have time to do more go to the stage 2 if not go to stage 5

5) Deposit any money you don't want to take away and tell the cashier that if bankers don't give their bonuses back you will return on Saturday 23/5/2011 and withdraw all your money.

It should be a peaceful protest and if enough people did it queues would form outside all the banks.

We could also make it a no shopping day.

Our government is totally dependent on our consumption. At the moment executive pay is spiralling and prices are rising to pay for their greed. We should all refuse to buy anything for a day and insist that executive pay levels are reduced so prices can be reduced.

Somebody tell the facebookers, twitterers, etc to arrange it.

All well and good. But what the media makes less of regarding the so called 'facebook' revolutions of the Middle East, is that the protest groups were well organised and subsribed way in advance of emergence of Facebook or Twitter. Instead of sitting on thier arses whinging in front of the Telly, educated arabs took proactive action to such an extent that a viral facebook 'call to arms', was widely heeded with the impacts that it has had.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I'll bite but only because I know it is going to keep you occupied for a long time. Show me the evidence and the figures.

A simple google of 'UK benefits least generous in Europe' will do. Have a look at the graph in the Telegraph blog first on the list and continue from there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are a regular on the Gold/precious metals forum richyc, which means that you have a fair bit of excess capital around which u have turned into PMs. Feel that you 'earned' that excess capital did you? With your hard work or extraordinary talents?

Anyone who is sitting on a large pile of excess capital, never came about it through hard work. I know very well from my own experience that as soon as you roll up your sleeves for a hard days work, then that is the day you are resigning yourself to the poorhouse. I could draw a graph which would show an inverse relationship between 'how hard I worked' and 'how much money I earned'. The easier the work, the bigger the money.

Leave the public sector workers, who are still able to bring home a liveable pay check with humane terms and conditions of employment, alone.

You really dont seem to be clued up on any of the issues here.

I think it was the owner of Easyjet who said:

"If you think safety is expensive, just try having an accident"

Businesses who suffer big accident can be put out of business. For this reason, thier is a very anti-accident corporate culture and when accidents happen, corporate profits are destroyed, bonuses are eliminated, and heads roll. The managers of our financial system however, suffered a devasting (completely forseeable by anyone willing to open thier eyes) 'accident', yet instead of all the consequences which should have been in line for those exhibiting such a neglect in 'duty of care' (fired, zero bonues, prison sentences), the government has stepped in (at the taxpayers expense) and made everything sweet for those directly involved in the reckless financial activity that caused the crash in the first place. Unlike an airline which has a crash, or an oil company which has a spill, no real shock has been administered to the financial management class and therefore where is the incentive for the change in behaviour that is desperately needed to avoid the exact same kind of financial risks, liberties, and fraud being taken, which will result in the exact same thing happening all over again? If everytime a boy racer smashed his car into a wall, the whole physical world turned into cushions and foam, and he escapes personally unscathed, is he going to learn any lesson at all about not driving like a lunatic?

As you may suspect, I find your comment alluding to "not cutting the bonuses of those performing managers who can turn the banks back to profitability", utterly laughable. The economical implications that the reality of returning the banks to a level of profitability enough to pay back the taxpayer, is another matter altogether. In reality, the banks are using all the hand outs, to quietly deleverage thier the mind numbing volume of toxic derivatives from thier balance sheets. This ensures that the billionaires who deal in these 'black financial spells', claw back as much value as possible whilst the great unwashed (including your pompous self), can go eat cake.

From your ridiculous comments, I deduct that any wealth you have, you have come by relatively easily although this is something your ego dont like to admit to. You have never really had to work your brain hard, and therefore you lazily apply all the values, that someone who has had it too easy all too readily embraces, (we are not all in this together cos we are not all equal), to real world problems and scenarios, whose rigour renders your conclusions borderline insane.

Thank you please.

I think I would put this post down as the BEST POST I have ever read on HPC THANKYOU

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.