Bloo Loo Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 It is interesting to apply similar logic to the population as a whole. What trading people would be stupid enough collectively to rent their means of exchange from profit-motivated money lenders so that they perpetually owe more than they can pay back? Surely they would realize that they could organize their own debt-free, persistently circulating means of exchange at negligible cost? Wouldn't they? clever bankers lent money to Spain, Ireland and Portugal, not forgetting Greece, in the hope of high returns and no consequences. If you are out of cash but have a credit card to bail you out, then get those high returns (Belgium????) while you can. The consequences are nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtomsilver Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I have the same problem. People come to me asking for advice and feel like a cheat dishing it out. Just before Christmas a friend of mine confided that he owes circa £20k+ in credit card and loan payments to Lloyds. Funny that he was declared bankrupt in early 2000 for exactly the same reasons and owing the same bank Lloyd - unbelievable rinse and repeat. It's been cold in the UK over Christmas hasn't it (my boilers broke) not for him though as he spent Christmas and New Year in Cancun coming back later on in the week. At my last rented property I was plagued by Bailiffs coming round all the time after a former tennant (a Solicitor) who had racked up debts and emigrated (fled) to Australia. Of course being an arsey HCP'er i'm not going to prove who I am not by giving my identity to these debt collection people who should do their own homework and not harrass innocent bystanders. One horrid man tried to levy on my tumble dryer and the stuff in the garden shed (and the shed, lol) after saying he was not going to pay ?my debt for me. I knocked him to the ground and literally booted him off my driveway telling him if he is going to trespass again and attempt to remove (commit burglary) then he should ensure the police attend for the good of his health and only then would I offer my name to the police in confidence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicestersq Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Oh, the sanctimony of savers who think their own money comes from the tooth fairy. I always thought that savers money came from the amount of disposable income, including gifts from others, that they received but didnt spend. Is that not the case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Never give up quitting Dorkins. It's like cooking, sometimes it's not very good but a bit more salt or a blast under the grill will sort it, sometimes it's gone too far wrong and nothing you do will change the fact that it's inedible. So bin it and cook something else. Just look at how the system works. Whoever you vote for, you will get fiscally irresponsible leaders taking your country to bankruptcy and handing what little cash is left to the banksters. Try to save and they will do their best to wipe out your savings with inflation. Try to work (assuming you can still compete despite the high cost of living) and they will take as much as they can in tax. The banks take reckless risks, and their punishment is to be handed trillions of pounds and told not to do it again unless they want an even bigger bailout next time. The system rewards behaviour which, in the long run, threatens the continued survival of the system itself. That dynamic alone ensures its eventual failure. Can things change? I think the chances of us getting leaders who want to turn this thing around by pre-emptively cutting taxes, cutting the cost of living, reducing debt levels and raising interest rates are less than 1%. They think they can fix everything by spending more freshly printed money, so they will print money until it has no value anymore. What can you or I do about that? Get angry on an internet forum? Go stand outside the BoE with a placard that says "PLEASE STOP PRINTING"? Lecture people we know who believed all the Ponzi lies and got themselves into bankruptcy? Bore anyone who will listen with tales of Minsky Moments and reversions to the mean? There is no point in worrying about things you can't change, so worry about the things you can change. Look after your health, look after your relationships with friends and family, get yourself in a conservative financial situation. Even if nothing happens, those things are good to do anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I always thought that savers money came from the amount of disposable income, including gifts from others, that they received but didnt spend. Is that not the case? It certainly doesn't come from interest anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 How do you isolate yourself? A small stash of gold and a garage full of beans and shotgun ammo? Or are you suggesting something more practical? There are lots of things you can do. Gold and beans are extreme examples, there are lots of milder ones. Live closer to work, try to get more than one income stream, reduce your basic outgoings, learn how to cook from scratch and repair things yourself. Everybody will have their own opinions as to how bad things will get before they start to get better, how much they are willing to change, and what is the best way to adapt. Maybe I'm wrong and January 2011 is already the bottom and nobody needs to change anything. It's a decision everybody has to make for themselves. I just think there's no point in wasting emotional energy on how crazy the current system is. A lot of people are getting angry about higher petrol prices, but I wonder how many of them are channeling that anger into finding ways to reduce the amount they need to drive. Similarly, instead of getting angry about this guy and his Belgian holiday, it would be better to find ways to reduce your exposure to the likely failure of banks and governments that things like this are signalling. Anger won't fix anything, but changing behaviour might. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicestersq Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 There are lots of things you can do. Gold and beans are extreme examples, there are lots of milder ones. Live closer to work, try to get more than one income stream, reduce your basic outgoings, learn how to cook from scratch and repair things yourself. Everybody will have their own opinions as to how bad things will get before they start to get better, how much they are willing to change, and what is the best way to adapt. Maybe I'm wrong and January 2011 is already the bottom and nobody needs to change anything. It's a decision everybody has to make for themselves. I just think there's no point in wasting emotional energy on how crazy the current system is. A lot of people are getting angry about higher petrol prices, but I wonder how many of them are channeling that anger into finding ways to reduce the amount they need to drive. Similarly, instead of getting angry about this guy and his Belgian holiday, it would be better to find ways to reduce your exposure to the likely failure of banks and governments that things like this are signalling. Anger won't fix anything, but changing behaviour might. When it comes to convincing fatalists to change, I just give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingHasToGive Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 When it comes to convincing fatalists to change, I just give up. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoto Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 We all accept sometimes divorce, mental illness or plain illness can catch out even the most prudent, but you (appear) to be attempting to give mitigating circumstances to people which in the OP's example, don't appear to have any of these as one would have hoped, it would have not been posted otherwise. Edit: Clarity. Even if there is not a bad luck factor, I can still understand how this cycle traps people. The temptation is dangled in front of peoples faces and ending up in a mess can happen quite under the radar. You almost don't realise you are there until it's too late. The perhaps more interesting discussion is where you expect people to get their financial literacy from. Some will learn it from their parents, but some learn it the hard way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopGun Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Oh, the sanctimony of savers who think their own money comes from the tooth fairy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Bear Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 /VENT A work friend of mine recently asked me about an "IVA" as I am "sensible with money". I took no pleasure (well, maybe a little) in putting friend straight as to what I thought of them, ie. "they should not be allowed, if Person A has spent the money then Person A should be required to pay it back". Cue friends sob story which I won't bore you with about their situation. Funnily enough, the conversation was cut short by friend who didn't want to hear my thoughts on their financial decisions. Anyway, shortly after this conversation I over-hear friend talking to someone else saying that they were looking to go away this weekend to "get away from it all" and had anyone been to Belgium. I am not looking for tips on Belgium, I just find it very frustrating that one minute it is "I have no money, I'm considering an IVA" to "I am going to go away for the weekend and blow a pile of money" (in fact, probably just add to their debts). Maybe all those lovely people on MSE have given him lots of (((HUGZ))))) and told him to be kind to himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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