Personal Finance Anecdote

[danlee74]

/VENT

A work friend of mine recently asked me about an "IVA" as I am "sensible with money". I took no pleasure (well, maybe a little) in putting friend straight as to what I thought of them, ie. "they should not be allowed, if Person A has spent the money then Person A should be required to pay it back". Cue friends sob story which I won't bore you with about their situation. Funnily enough, the conversation was cut short by friend who didn't want to hear my thoughts on their financial decisions.

Anyway, shortly after this conversation I over-hear friend talking to someone else saying that they were looking to go away this weekend to "get away from it all" and had anyone been to Belgium. I am not looking for tips on Belgium, I just find it very frustrating that one minute it is "I have no money, I'm considering an IVA" to "I am going to go away for the weekend and blow a pile of money" (in fact, probably just add to their debts).

Why can these people not put two and two together and realise that they are in the position they are in because of their own financial mismanagement and take the necessary steps to resolve the behaviour?! Why is it not socially unacceptable to borrow more than they can afford to pay back??

/VENT OVER

It's lucky I found these forums as it helps to share and prevents my head from exploding!!

[Stay Beautiful]

Debt is wealth?

[juvenal]

/VENT

A work friend of mine recently asked me about an "IVA" as I am "sensible with money". I took no pleasure (well, maybe a little) in putting friend straight as to what I thought of them, ie. "they should not be allowed, if Person A has spent the money then Person A should be required to pay it back". Cue friends sob story which I won't bore you with about their situation. Funnily enough, the conversation was cut short by friend who didn't want to hear my thoughts on their financial decisions.

Anyway, shortly after this conversation I over-hear friend talking to someone else saying that they were looking to go away this weekend to "get away from it all" and had anyone been to Belgium. I am not looking for tips on Belgium, I just find it very frustrating that one minute it is "I have no money, I'm considering an IVA" to "I am going to go away for the weekend and blow a pile of money" (in fact, probably just add to their debts).

Why can these people not put two and two together and realise that they are in the position they are in because of their own financial mismanagement and take the necessary steps to resolve the behaviour?! Why is it not socially unacceptable to borrow more than they can afford to pay back??

/VENT OVER

It's lucky I found these forums as it helps to share and prevents my head from exploding!!

He 'needs a break' in Belgium. Therefore he ought to have/even deserves a break in Belgium.

That old sense of personal entitlement again...

[Dorkins]

Unless you lent him the money, I wouldn't worry about it as it's not your problem.

[leicestersq]

/VENT

A work friend of mine recently asked me about an "IVA" as I am "sensible with money". I took no pleasure (well, maybe a little) in putting friend straight as to what I thought of them, ie. "they should not be allowed, if Person A has spent the money then Person A should be required to pay it back". Cue friends sob story which I won't bore you with about their situation. Funnily enough, the conversation was cut short by friend who didn't want to hear my thoughts on their financial decisions.

Anyway, shortly after this conversation I over-hear friend talking to someone else saying that they were looking to go away this weekend to "get away from it all" and had anyone been to Belgium. I am not looking for tips on Belgium, I just find it very frustrating that one minute it is "I have no money, I'm considering an IVA" to "I am going to go away for the weekend and blow a pile of money" (in fact, probably just add to their debts).

Why can these people not put two and two together and realise that they are in the position they are in because of their own financial mismanagement and take the necessary steps to resolve the behaviour?! Why is it not socially unacceptable to borrow more than they can afford to pay back??

/VENT OVER

It's lucky I found these forums as it helps to share and prevents my head from exploding!!

Lucky? You are on the wrong forums mate if you are looking for sympathy, it is in short supply here.

We do a good laugh though at the financially challenged, and the more financially challenged that lend to them.

[The Ayatollah Buggeri]

Unless you lent him the money, I wouldn't worry about it as it's not your problem.

It will be when he runs out of money (or more specifically, the ability to borrow money) and throws himself on the mercy of his fellow taxpayers.

[interestrateripoff]

Clearly they don't earn enough, now even did earn enough they would then find more things they deserved to get away from it / treat themselves too which they can't afford.

Living within your means is do Dickensian.

[SarahBell]

Sounds about right for brain dead muppets.

They should take passports off people who are idiots with money (although that does keep them in the UK...)

[Arbitrage]

/VENT

A work friend of mine recently asked me about an "IVA" as I am "sensible with money". I took no pleasure (well, maybe a little) in putting friend straight as to what I thought of them, ie. "they should not be allowed, if Person A has spent the money then Person A should be required to pay it back". Cue friends sob story which I won't bore you with about their situation. Funnily enough, the conversation was cut short by friend who didn't want to hear my thoughts on their financial decisions.

Anyway, shortly after this conversation I over-hear friend talking to someone else saying that they were looking to go away this weekend to "get away from it all" and had anyone been to Belgium. I am not looking for tips on Belgium, I just find it very frustrating that one minute it is "I have no money, I'm considering an IVA" to "I am going to go away for the weekend and blow a pile of money" (in fact, probably just add to their debts).

Why can these people not put two and two together and realise that they are in the position they are in because of their own financial mismanagement and take the necessary steps to resolve the behaviour?! Why is it not socially unacceptable to borrow more than they can afford to pay back??

/VENT OVER

It's lucky I found these forums as it helps to share and prevents my head from exploding!!

HE'S PURSUING SELF-INTEREST AND BEHAVING RATIONALLY.

[PricedOutNative]

They are laughing at you!

You prudent people are the suckers that are bailing them out

Lucky? You are on the wrong forums mate if you are looking for sympathy, it is in short supply here.

We do a good laugh though at the financially challenged, and the more financially challenged that lend to them.

[leicestersq]

They are laughing at you!

You prudent people are the suckers that are bailing them out

Dont you think that we know that?

Some of us can laugh at ourselves as well, and enjoy the general hopelessness of the situation.

The feeding frenzy of benefits paid to the reckless out of the pockets of the prudent orchestrated by the corrupt and brainless is reaching fever pitch. What a show it is.

[Bloo Loo]

lets see, im short of money, cant pay back my debts, but I have £10,000 left on me cards.

I plan an IVA for March.

Think Ill take a couple of months off and book that serious holiday ( prepaid) for the summer.

the bankers can go hang.

[Vagabond]

On the plus side you get the last laugh as he is going to Belgium..

..and Belgium, after the first waffle and overpriced beer fade away is just awful.

[General Congreve]

/VENT

A work friend of mine recently asked me about an "IVA" as I am "sensible with money". I took no pleasure (well, maybe a little) in putting friend straight as to what I thought of them, ie. "they should not be allowed, if Person A has spent the money then Person A should be required to pay it back". Cue friends sob story which I won't bore you with about their situation. Funnily enough, the conversation was cut short by friend who didn't want to hear my thoughts on their financial decisions.

Anyway, shortly after this conversation I over-hear friend talking to someone else saying that they were looking to go away this weekend to "get away from it all" and had anyone been to Belgium. I am not looking for tips on Belgium, I just find it very frustrating that one minute it is "I have no money, I'm considering an IVA" to "I am going to go away for the weekend and blow a pile of money" (in fact, probably just add to their debts).

Why can these people not put two and two together and realise that they are in the position they are in because of their own financial mismanagement and take the necessary steps to resolve the behaviour?! Why is it not socially unacceptable to borrow more than they can afford to pay back??

/VENT OVER

It's lucky I found these forums as it helps to share and prevents my head from exploding!!

The more debt him and his type rack up, the better. His trip to Belgium will just be another welcome little straw on the backs of our corrupt banks.

[Dorkins]

It will be when he runs out of money (or more specifically, the ability to borrow money) and throws himself on the mercy of his fellow taxpayers.

There's a tendency for people on this site to take the actions of governments and corporations personally. There really is no point as they are both far too big for any of us to influence. The system has its own internal logic (printy printy, debt = wealth, government of the people by the banksters) which it will pursue until it breaks.

Instead of demoralising ourselves by feeling angry and powerless about it we may as well just accept the situation for what it is. We live in an economic system which is at the end of its useful life and which is starting to collapse under the weight of its own internal contradictions. Until the next system starts to emerge we are all individually stuck between a rock and a hard place: to what extent should we dine with the devil and make a living out of the corrupt ancien regime (e.g. taking a well-paid public sector or finance job, claiming benefits or tax credits we are entitled to, even playing the property market) and to what extent should we isolate ourselves from the system as is and prepare for whatever may come?

We all have to make our way, if some people are getting faceless banks to give them funny money for holidays in Belgium then at this stage I have no problem with it. The die is cast, the cards are dealt, no point in worrying about it now. Take care of your business and let others take care of theirs.

[Monkey]

Sounds about right for brain dead muppets.

They should take passports off people who are idiots with money (although that does keep them in the UK...)

when they leave the country tell them to go the the British Embasy in the country they are going to, as they have a present for them, then take their passports away in that country saying "you must have wanted to come here as you booked a holiday here, so why not stay for ever"

this could work for Criminals, Benifit cheats, A - Z list celebrities, etc

[leicestersq]

There's a tendency for people on this site to take the actions of governments and corporations personally. There really is no point as they are both far too big for any of us to influence. The system has its own internal logic (printy printy, debt = wealth, government of the people by the banksters) which it will pursue until it breaks.

Instead of demoralising ourselves by feeling angry and powerless about it we may as well just accept the situation for what it is. We live in an economic system which is at the end of its useful life and which is starting to collapse under the weight of its own internal contradictions. Until the next system starts to emerge we are all individually stuck between a rock and a hard place: to what extent should we dine with the devil and make a living out of the corrupt ancien regime (e.g. taking a well-paid public sector or finance job, claiming benefits or tax credits we are entitled to, even playing the property market) and to what extent should we isolate ourselves from the system as is and prepare for whatever may come?

We all have to make our way, if some people are getting faceless banks to give them funny money for holidays in Belgium then at this stage I have no problem with it. The die is cast, the cards are dealt, no point in worrying about it now. Take care of your business and let others take care of theirs.

Never give up quitting Dorkins.

[SomethingHasToGive]

Instead of demoralising ourselves by feeling angry and powerless about it we may as well just accept the situation for what it is. We live in an economic system which is at the end of its useful life and which is starting to collapse under the weight of its own internal contradictions. Until the next system starts to emerge we are all individually stuck between a rock and a hard place: to what extent should we dine with the devil and make a living out of the corrupt ancien regime (e.g. taking a well-paid public sector or finance job, claiming benefits or tax credits we are entitled to, even playing the property market) and to what extent should we isolate ourselves from the system as is and prepare for whatever may come?

How do you isolate yourself? A small stash of gold and a garage full of beans and shotgun ammo? Or are you suggesting something more practical?

[Kyoto]

I have a bit of sympathy for people who get into this position.

Earnings are so low vs living expenses that people often turn to credit just to get by.

And beyond necessity, the temptation is always there to dip into the credit cards, store cards, and overdraft for the nice bits in life. It's not right, and I'm sure many debtors would agree it's not, but we're all human after all and prone to give in to temptation once in a while.

A bit of this here and there over time, and the credit cards in particular can then become a trap as the balance creeps up over the years and the minimum payments then end up barely covering the interest. You're kind of stuck as a debtor now unless you manage to increase your income.

It's easy to go through a phase of juggling things at this stage, by which point the bank will usually offer a bit more credit as you're becoming a good citizen consistently feeding the finance industry beast. Before you know it, your budget ends up on a knife edge.

It then only takes one stroke of bad luck - the washing machine breaks or a relationship breaks down and you have a shortfall. The banks then pile on the trouble with charges and punitive interest rates. Your credit becomes trashed so you end up with less room for manoeuvre. The calls and nasty letters start, so you end up looking at IVAs and Bankruptcy as a way out. Just to rub salt into the wounds, you also end up getting slated on HousePriceCrash.co.uk.

I actually found myself in this same situation shortly in my early 20s. It wasn't a lot in the grand scheme of things, but I saw how a small regular overspend can turn into a bigger problem under the radar.

I didn't learn about financial literacy from my parents, and so almost had to learn the lesson by getting burnt.

I haven't looked at credit once since then and now maintain about ten years of living expenses in the bank having learnt a valuable lesson. Maybe there is an interesting question here about financial literacy in schools and via parenting.

To the OP and responders, I would say don't be so judgemental of people until you have walked into their shoes. Theirs a lot of stupidity about, but it's also not inconceivable that you would find yourself in the same situation given one or two strokes of bad luck.

Edited January 6, 2011 by Kyoto

[long time lurking]

They are laughing at you!

You prudent people are the suckers that are bailing them out

Yep use to think that myself ,until i bump in to a mate just before Christmas who was on 70k a year[worked in finance} until the credit crunch and he lost the job

But seemed to carry on the lifestyle as nothing happened working as a IFA ,I had my suspicions ,and sadly they were confirmed just before Xmas as he was on the verge of topping himself as his wife had just left the sinking ship for one with a bit more above the water and he had just had his last credit card declined when trying to by his kids Christmas presents

He then blurt out I have been living a lie for the last three years ,he had mewed all the equity from his house ,he is know bankrupt wifeless 300+k mortgage and one can only guess C/C debit just to keep up with the jones`es ,a very sad case but proof that the chickens do come home to roost at some point

[The Spaniard]

Why can these people not put two and two together and realise that they are in the position they are in because of their own financial mismanagement and take the necessary steps to resolve the behaviour?! Why is it not socially unacceptable to borrow more than they can afford to pay back??

It is interesting to apply similar logic to the population as a whole.

What trading people would be stupid enough collectively to rent their means of exchange from profit-motivated money lenders so that they perpetually owe more than they can pay back?

Surely they would realize that they could organize their own debt-free, persistently circulating means of exchange at negligible cost?

Wouldn't they?

[Alan B'Stard MP]

Oh, the sanctimony of savers who think their own money comes from the tooth fairy.

[Si1]

Oh, the sanctimony of savers who think their own money comes from the tooth fairy.

+1 you subtle b*stard

[Tired of Waiting]

It will be when he runs out of money (or more specifically, the ability to borrow money) and throws himself on the mercy of his fellow taxpayers.

+ 1

[Tired of Waiting]

Oh, the sanctimony of savers who think their own money comes from the tooth fairy.

The credit bubble pushed both sterling and property prices up. For the productive sectors the credit bubble created more problems than benefits, surely on the long term, but probably on the short term as well. (Please see my sig.)

Edit: And if you also consider distributional aspects, regarding generations and property ownership, then the whole system became random, even less meritocratic than before. (And before was not that good to begin with either.) A national disaster. People who borrowed too much must share the blame (along with the monetary authorities, mainly Brown).

Edited January 6, 2011 by Tired of Waiting