Uk Police May Ban Student Marches

[cashinmattress]

Link

London's top police officer says he is considering banning student marches in the wake of violent flare-ups at protests opposing a massive increase in university tuition fees.

The move has prompted some observers to declare that Britain may be headed towards "martial law" as police push back against angry youth who find they can no longer afford an education, at a time when jobs openings are rare.

Speaking about a possible ban on marches, Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson said "it is one of the tactics we will look at and something we will keep under review, and if we think it is the right thing to do then we will do it."

The declaration has incensed students' groups, who in recent weeks held four large demonstrations in London to protest the tripling of university tuition fees to the equivalent of $18,000 per year. Britain's parliament passed the hike this week.

"Peaceful protest is an integral part of our heritage and it is the responsibility of the police to help facilitate that," said Aaron Porter, president of National Union of Students of the UK.

Under Britain's Public Order Act, a police chief can request a three-month ban on processions, provided the local government and the national Home Office agree to it. The Act doesn't give police the power to stop protests, only to keep the protesters from marching.

The most recent protest, held last week, turned violent as protesters smashed windows at the Treasury and High Court buildings. Twelve police officers and more than 40 protesters were injured. Protesters attacked a car carrying Prince Charles and his wife, Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall, reportedly making physical contact with the duchess.

In all, 182 protesters have been arrested in the protests held in recent weeks.

London police have come under heavy criticism for their tactics in handling the protests. A leading human rights lawyer is launching a legal challenge to the police's use of "kettling," a technique in which riot officers surround a group of protesters and keep them stranded for hours at a time.

Bethany Shiner said police "are now using kettling as a stock response to all public protests and appear to have authorized kettling in advance of this particular protest."

The Metropolitan Police also came under fire after a YouTube video showed wheelchair-bound protester -- cerebral palsy sufferer Jody McIntyre -- being pulled from his wheelchair and beaten by officers.

Commissioner Stephenson said he is considering a ban on marches because the protests have occupied officers to the point that they cannot police the city properly. But he admitted that a ban may not have the desired effect.

"When you have got people willing to break the law in this way, what is the likelihood of them obeying an order not to march or complying with conditions on a demonstration?" he asked. "Sometimes putting that power in could just be inflaming the situation further."

Britain has been bottling up it's problems for decades, and it may all let go at some point. The peace has been bought via inflation, and at the same time, we've built up a monitoring and enforcement network that would make the Stasi envious.

The police have too much power here. What's really disturbing is that these 'police', wearing full body armour and hiding their identity are only a uniform separated from the upset kids. What would possibly make a young man want to turn on his own people in such a manner? I was in the forces when I was younger, but had I been asked to do something as inhuman as fvcking over my own brothers and sisters, I would have told my CO to stick it and they'd have put me in the stockade.

One more nail in the coffin for our supposed democracy.

This is Britain, same as it ever was.

Legal challenge to police 'kettling'

The police tactic of "kettling" to confine protesters during public demonstrations, such as those in London last week, is to be challenged at the High Court.

Leading the challenge is Bethany Shiner, daughter of a high-profile human rights lawyer, who was kettled during tuition fee protests last week.

Ms Shiner is launching proceedings against the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police after being detained on Thursday in Trafalgar Square.

She is the 23-year-old elder daughter of Public Interest Lawyers (PIL) solicitor Phil Shiner. Ms Shiner and four sixth-form students, one of whom is a minor, are seeking a ruling that the use of kettling "as a standard response to protests" is unlawful.

They complain they were detained for hours in sub-zero temperatures and not released until 7pm. Birmingham-based PIL is applying for judicial review on their behalf, saying their treatment was "a matter of serious concern". Mr Shiner said: "Because I was in London I was able to advise Bethany and get her sorted so that she could eventually get out of the kettle."

The concern was that the Metropolitan Police "are now using kettling as a stock response to all public protests and appear to have authorised kettling in advance of this particular protest".

He said: "The police are required to have a range of lawful responses to different scenarios and not just resort to the most coercive tactics at the first sign of trouble. The policy on kettling needs to be stuck down."

Ms Shiner said: "I was with a group of young people who behaved at all times perfectly properly and lawfully. We then found ourselves kettled in sub-zero temperatures. I managed to get out only because I went to the rescue of a young man who had a head wound after being hit with a police baton. It is outrageous that the police should resort to such tactics against all protesters, most of whom were acting peacefully."

PIL has written to the Commissioner warning they will argue in court that the police are using kettling in a way that involves multiple breaches of the European Convention on Human Rights. These include a breach of Article 5 - the right not to be unlawfully detained; Article 10 - the right to freedom of expression; and Article 11 - the right to freedom of assembly.

At the heart of the challenge are allegations that, on Thursday, the police knew in advance all about the protest. They had previously used kettling on other recent occasions, including against student protesters in London on November 24, and appeared now to be using it as a standard response to public protests.

[Bosh]

They will attempt to ban all marches and gatherings. The same lot turn up for every protest now for a stand off with the Police and to vandalise public property.

Instead of kettling everyone the Police should really target the activists who absolutely ruin peoples right to march and protest. They should treat them the same way they do football hooligans and give them banning orders and make them report to Police stations during certain planned protests.

[Caribbean Beauty]

They will attempt to ban all marches and gatherings. The same lot turn up for every protest now for a stand off with the Police and to vandalise public property.

Instead of kettling everyone the Police should really target the activists who absolutely ruin peoples right to march and protest. They should treat them the same way they do football hooligans and give them banning orders and make them report to Police stations during certain planned protests.

If they try and ban marches for fear of them turning into a riot, these mobs will riot anyway! All pre-planned on assbook, twatter etc.

What is really needed is a return to the 1980's TSG snatch-squads, where the obvious troublemakers (eg masked, "carrying" etc) are spotted in the bowels of the crowds (like turds in intestines) and plucked out for summary arrest, and a good booting in the privacy of the rear of the transit vans.

I really have no sympathy for those who would vandalise our great buildings, statues of our national heroes - who fought the nazis for their freedom to demonstrate - etc. Luckily, the vast majority of the UK public now agree with a move to tougher tactics with these wasters, who expect everyone else to pay for them to study "photography", "art history" etc when 20 years ago they would happily leave school at 16 and do the kind of jobs that only eastern europeans will now do.

[VeryMeanReversion]

"Peaceful protest is an integral part of our heritage"

The Iraq anti-war effort being completely ignored told me that peaceful protest is completely pointless. Well done Tony.

It doesn't make sense to me why anyone going on a protest would use their own face allowing them to be photographed, reported and logged.

[Gone baby gone]

"Peaceful protest is an integral part of our heritage"

The Iraq anti-war effort being completely ignored told me that peaceful protest is completely pointless. Well done Tony.

It doesn't make sense to me why anyone going on a protest would use their own face allowing them to be photographed, reported and logged.

Yes, and we all remember that it wasn't until the poll tax riots, that the government of the day took note and changed policy.

Successive governments have chosen to ignore huge peaceful protests, it appears to take violence to get their attention.

Until this situation changes, there will continue to be violent protests in London, sanction by the Metropolitan Police, or otherwise.

[Toto deVeer]

Dissent is verboten.

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

Dissent is verboten.

Fantastic winger, Ajax no?

[Hyperduck Quack Quack]

really have no sympathy for those who would vandalise our great buildings, statues of our national heroes - who fought the nazis for their freedom to demonstrate - etc.

....draws a Hitler moustache and wig on Churchill

I think occupying public buildings is legitimate, depending on what the protest is about. But wanton vandalism or intent to injure people is wrong, whether it's by the police or the demonstrators. The most serious injury during the last demonstration in London was to a student who received a life-threatening brain injury after being hit by a police truncheon, and yet the media attached more importance to the window of a royal limousine being broken.

[6538]

Link

Britain has been bottling up it's problems for decades, and it may all let go at some point. The peace has been bought via inflation, and at the same time, we've built up a monitoring and enforcement network that would make the Stasi envious.

The police have too much power here. What's really disturbing is that these 'police', wearing full body armour and hiding their identity are only a uniform separated from the upset kids. What would possibly make a young man want to turn on his own people in such a manner? I was in the forces when I was younger, but had I been asked to do something as inhuman as fvcking over my own brothers and sisters, I would have told my CO to stick it and they'd have put me in the stockade.

One more nail in the coffin for our supposed democracy.

This is Britain, same as it ever was.

Personally, if I were the Met commissioner, I'd just not bother sending a single copper out to police the next rio.....I mean peacful demonstration and let the thugs destroy most of central London. See what effect that has on our democracy.

[6538]

If they try and ban marches for fear of them turning into a riot, these mobs will riot anyway! All pre-planned on assbook, twatter etc.

What is really needed is a return to the 1980's TSG snatch-squads, where the obvious troublemakers (eg masked, "carrying" etc) are spotted in the bowels of the crowds (like turds in intestines) and plucked out for summary arrest, and a good booting in the privacy of the rear of the transit vans.

I really have no sympathy for those who would vandalise our great buildings, statues of our national heroes - who fought the nazis for their freedom to demonstrate - etc. Luckily, the vast majority of the UK public now agree with a move to tougher tactics with these wasters, who expect everyone else to pay for them to study "photography", "art history" etc when 20 years ago they would happily leave school at 16 and do the kind of jobs that only eastern europeans will now do.

Entirely agreed.

[6538]

"Peaceful protest is an integral part of our heritage"

The Iraq anti-war effort being completely ignored told me that peaceful protest is completely pointless. Well done Tony.

It doesn't make sense to me why anyone going on a protest would use their own face allowing them to be photographed, reported and logged.

Protest of any sort simply does not work, nor do petitions. The only thing that works is the fear of a politician loosing his seat - that is the only thing which may get him to change his mind. Name me a protest, violent or otherwise, that didn't have widespread support which actually worked. If you want to change a policy or a law the answer is easy - get lots more people to agree with you who will vote against it at the next election.

Most protests are utterly pointless and many these days are just an excuse for a riot. They are essentially just a quaint old socialist idea which doesn't work any more.

[6538]

Yes, and we all remember that it wasn't until the poll tax riots, that the government of the day took note and changed policy.

Successive governments have chosen to ignore huge peaceful protests, it appears to take violence to get their attention.

Until this situation changes, there will continue to be violent protests in London, sanction by the Metropolitan Police, or otherwise.

The Community Charge demos which turned violent are always the ones trotted out as proof that violence works to change public policy. Unfortunately, it's rubbish. The Community Charge was reversed because the anti campaign had very wide public support, it was roundly hated and lots of otherwise law abiding people were willing to go to prison for non payment - you cannot run Country like that and it renders the tax pointless if you can't raise any money from it. Exactly the same outcome would have resulted if the protests had been peaceful, in fact, I think the desired result would probably have come about quicker if it had have been.

Violent protest does not work. The miners strike being a case in point. Had they had widespread support then we'd still have a thriving mining industry today. If the majority of the populous were against increased tuition fees then there would be no need for the protests!

[Scott Sando]

The students should instead of protesting which is the act of a child spitting its dumby out, should refuse to pay back the loan on mass, problem solved.

[6538]

The students should instead of protesting which is the act of a child spitting its dumby out, should refuse to pay back the loan on mass, problem solved.

Precisely. There are many far better ways of getting what you want apart from protesting. The thing is though, I'm not sure that they actually have as much support as they claim they do.

[worzel]

The students should instead of protesting which is the act of a child spitting its dumby out, should refuse to pay back the loan on mass, problem solved.

Agreed, but the money will be taken out of their PAYE code, so that leaves emigration as the easiest way to avoid repayment, which will be a very attractive proposition for many.

[Jack's Creation]

The Community Charge demos which turned violent are always the ones trotted out as proof that violence works to change public policy. Unfortunately, it's rubbish. The Community Charge was reversed because the anti campaign had very wide public support, it was roundly hated and lots of otherwise law abiding people were willing to go to prison for non payment - you cannot run Country like that and it renders the tax pointless if you can't raise any money from it. Exactly the same outcome would have resulted if the protests had been peaceful, in fact, I think the desired result would probably have come about quicker if it had have been.

Violent protest does not work. The miners strike being a case in point. Had they had widespread support then we'd still have a thriving mining industry today. If the majority of the populous were against increased tuition fees then there would be no need for the protests!

The British have a long and proud history of Rioting and it's use as a means of political change.

Ever heard of the following:-

Watt Tyler? Jack Straw? The Levellers and Diggers? The Peterloo massacre?

[RichB]

Violent protest does not work. The miners strike being a case in point. Had they had widespread support then we'd still have a thriving mining industry today. If the majority of the populous were against increased tuition fees then there would be no need for the protests!

Violent _protest_ does work, but rarely on it's own.

It will be interesting to see the results in France, Italy and Greece.

However, violent _revolution_ has been proven to alter policy to a significant level. The lines between protest and revolution are notoriously thin.

[Austin Allegro]

The students should instead of protesting which is the act of a child spitting its dumby out, should refuse to pay back the loan on mass, problem solved.

Or simply refuse en masse to attend university, and spend three years on the dole setting up informal learning networks via the internet. Unfortunately that would be a little too radical for some of these 'radicals'...but it was acts like this that led to the founding of Cambridge university in the middle ages.

[6538]

The British have a long and proud history of Rioting and it's use as a means of political change.

Ever heard of the following:-

Watt Tyler? Jack Straw? The Levellers and Diggers? The Peterloo massacre?

Yes, vaguely. However, these are not remotely recent and I'm sure were about things which had widespread public support. The other thing is that in days gone by public demonstrations were an important way in which to voice public objection as there were fewer ways to get Government to take notice. This isn't really the case any more.

If violent demos work then surely if the million people on the anti-Iraq war demos or the 700K people on the Countryside alliance marches had kicked off and turned violent then we wouldn't have had a war or a fox hunting ban. That position is just ludicrous though.

Violent protests do not work these days.

[6538]

Violent _protest_ does work, but rarely on it's own.

It will be interesting to see the results in France, Italy and Greece.

However, violent _revolution_ has been proven to alter policy to a significant level. The lines between protest and revolution are notoriously thin.

Which is just anoher way of saying that it deosn't work without actually putting it in those words. If violent protest doesn't work in isolation then it follows that it must be a necessary addition to other protest which implies that other protest cannot work without it which is rubbish.

There is no protest that I can think of in the past 100 years (and probably further back) that actually had to turn violent to achieve it's organisers aims and very few indeed which actually worked whether violent or otherwise.

[Jack's Creation]

If they try and ban marches for fear of them turning into a riot, these mobs will riot anyway! All pre-planned on assbook, twatter etc.

What is really needed is a return to the 1980's TSG snatch-squads, where the obvious troublemakers (eg masked, "carrying" etc) are spotted in the bowels of the crowds (like turds in intestines) and plucked out for summary arrest, and a good booting in the privacy of the rear of the transit vans.

I really have no sympathy for those who would vandalise our great buildings, statues of our national heroes - who fought the nazis for their freedom to demonstrate - etc. Luckily, the vast majority of the UK public now agree with a move to tougher tactics with these wasters, who expect everyone else to pay for them to study "photography", "art history" etc when 20 years ago they would happily leave school at 16 and do the kind of jobs that only eastern europeans will now do.

No, that is not what is really needed.

What is really needed is for the younger Generation to not be financially cannibalised by the Older generation who want to keep all of the benefits for themselves and absorb none of the true costs.

To not protest against this inequity should be criminal.

We also probably need less middle-aged reactionary ex coppers ( or immigration officers) with no sense of irony violating Godwin's law on internet forums.

[Scott Sando]

Or simply refuse en masse to attend university, and spend three years on the dole setting up informal learning networks via the internet. Unfortunately that would be a little too radical for some of these 'radicals'...but it was acts like this that led to the founding of Cambridge university in the middle ages.

Thats a great idea, have a round of appause.

[RichB]

Which is just anoher way of saying that it deosn't work without actually putting it in those words. If violent protest doesn't work in isolation then it follows that it must be a necessary addition to other protest which implies that other protest cannot work without it which is rubbish.

There is no protest that I can think of in the past 100 years (and probably further back) that actually had to turn violent to achieve it's organisers aims and very few indeed which actually worked whether violent or otherwise.

That is rather flawed, and historically significantly incorrect. Still, kudos to you for sticking to your guns.

[Gone baby gone]

The Community Charge was reversed because the anti campaign had very wide public support, it was roundly hated and lots of otherwise law abiding people were willing to go to prison for non payment - you cannot run Country like that and it renders the tax pointless if you can't raise any money from it.

I think you'll find that the poll tax riots highlighted how unpopular the policy was at a very sensitive time for the then government. Without the riots, both the poll tax and Thatcher would have survived for much longer.

On 31 March 1990, a huge anti-poll tax demonstration in Trafalgar Square, attended by many middle class voters as well as regular anti-Conservative protesters, ended in violent clashes. Ministers began to contemplate a reversal of the policy. However, as this was a flagship Thatcherite policy, such a U-turn was impossible while Mrs Thatcher remained at the helm.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/politics97/background/pastelec/ge92con.shtml

"Prime Minister Thatcher was at a conference of the Conservative Party Council in Cheltenham. The Community Charge was the focus of the conference; as coverage of the demonstrations unfolded, speculation developed for the first time about Thatcher's position as leader."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_Tax_Riots#Trafalgar_Square_preparations

When violent clashes erupt with the police and there are people in numbers beyond the "usual suspects", the government start to take note.

[Cinzano Bianco]

Protest of any sort simply does not work, nor do petitions. The only thing that works is the fear of a politician loosing his seat - that is the only thing which may get him to change his mind. Name me a protest, violent or otherwise, that didn't have widespread support which actually worked. If you want to change a policy or a law the answer is easy - get lots more people to agree with you who will vote against it at the next election.

...in 4 1/2 years time. In any case, unless the politicians get it signed off by their banker bosses, nothing will change will it?

Most protests are utterly pointless and many these days are just an excuse for a riot. They are essentially just a quaint old socialist idea which doesn't work any more.

Nonsense. It generates media attention, and the general public actually notice.