Which Hpcer Wrote Today's Play?

[porca misèria]

Anyone hear today's afternoon play on Radio 4? They've dramatised a very HPC-flavour explanation of money and banking, and will there be a meltdown? Something for TFHers, gold bugs, and even a hint of Injin-lite.

I suspect many HPCers would enjoy it on listen again!

['Bart']

Anyone hear today's afternoon play on Radio 4? They've dramatised a very HPC-flavour explanation of money and banking, and will there be a meltdown? Something for TFHers, gold bugs, and even a hint of Injin-lite.

I suspect many HPCers would enjoy it on listen again!

Thanks for the heads up, I'll give it a listen.

[Tenubracon]

Anyone hear today's afternoon play on Radio 4? They've dramatised a very HPC-flavour explanation of money and banking, and will there be a meltdown? Something for TFHers, gold bugs, and even a hint of Injin-lite.

I suspect many HPCers would enjoy it on listen again!

Yes, I thought much the same as you. Pity that we were quite possibly the only people who listened, though!

[mrmagooisagovteconomist]

Anyone hear today's afternoon play on Radio 4? They've dramatised a very HPC-flavour explanation of money and banking, and will there be a meltdown? Something for TFHers, gold bugs, and even a hint of Injin-lite.

I suspect many HPCers would enjoy it on listen again!

Here's the link, ps its one of two,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00bbwp4/Afternoon_Play_Signs_Horizon

[mrmagooisagovteconomist]

Anyone hear today's afternoon play on Radio 4? They've dramatised a very HPC-flavour explanation of money and banking, and will there be a meltdown? Something for TFHers, gold bugs, and even a hint of Injin-lite.

I suspect many HPCers would enjoy it on listen again!

Here's the link, ps its one of two,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00bbwp4/Afternoon_Play_Signs_Horizon

[bearwithasorehead]

Also topical but doesn't quite deserve its own thread: YouGov did a survey today on houseprices.

One question asked for a prediction for the next 12 months on prices.

I lied and answered -10-15%.

I think it'll be less than that, but hey.

edit: forgot the minus

Edited November 24, 2010 by bearwithasorehead

[athom]

Here's the link, ps its one of two,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00bbwp4/Afternoon_Play_Signs_Horizon

What do you mean one of 2? Which is the other one or is that coming still?

http://po-ru.com/projects/iplayer-downloader/#windowsgui you can save it as an MP3 and listen to it off line

[Timm]

I remember there was a good Radio 4 play about liar loans that was like HPC going on a rant until the last 5 minutes which were like it had been cut short - "OK, that's enough - Ed".

It was the one with the GelHeads.

[juvenal]

Yes, I thought much the same as you. Pity that we were quite possibly the only people who listened, though!

I heard it as well. I liked the mother buying shit and running up all the debt.

[porca misèria]

I heard it as well. I liked the mother buying shit and running up all the debt.

Yeah, but the point was how it cancelled out his savings, and the sinister voice from the system finding them useless without the savings+debt, despite their net value being unchanged. Savers and Borrowers make the _______ world go round.

[billybong]

"Look!! They charge by the minute just like the ho of Babylon darling".

[General Congreve]

Here's the link, ps its one of two,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00bbwp4/Afternoon_Play_Signs_Horizon

Can't believe I stayed up and listened to this toss! It was all going splendidly well, then all of a sudden the the good guy, who's been advising the father of the family to protect his precarious paper assets with gold/silver, turns into some New World Order RFID chip inserting Zionist plotter that wants to enslave him! His wife then steals all the husbands life savings to give to the evil banks to clear her hidden credit card debts (as if that's morally ok) and for some reason they live happily ever after with no money and the financial crisis evaporates into thin air, all because she paid off her debt and sent a spam email (won't explain that bit - total toss). The story finishes with a vapid honey-coated ending, where the wife states that sometimes it's better not to know about some things!?!?!?!

Yeah, great moral - stick your head in the sand and cross your fingers, I'm sure everything will turn out nice. Ignorance rules sheeple, now move along, nothing to see here.

Shame, it was really going somewhere in the first half, knew it was too good to be true. This show won't enlighten anyone.

I would almost guess that this was put out by the government to undermine the gold/silver story, a modern day 'Keep Calm and Carry On'.

Edited November 25, 2010 by General Congreve

[Timm]

Can't believe I stayed up and listened to this toss! It was all going splendidly well, then all of a sudden the the good guy, who's been advising the father of the family to protect his precarious paper assets with gold/silver, turns into some New World Order RFID chip inserting Zionist plotter that wants to enslave him! His wife then steals all the husbands life savings to give to the evil banks to clear her hidden credit card debts (as if that's morally ok) and for some reason they live happily ever after with no money and the financial crisis evaporates into thin air, all because she paid off her debt and sent a spam email (won't explain that bit - total toss). The story finishes with a vapid honey-coated ending, where the wife states that sometimes it's better not to know about some things!?!?!?!

Yeah, great moral - stick your head in the sand and cross your fingers, I'm sure everything will turn out nice. Ignorance rules sheeple, now move along, nothing to see here.

Shame, it was really going somewhere in the first half, knew it was too good to be true. This show won't enlighten anyone.

I would almost guess that this was put out by the government to undermine the gold/silver story, a modern day 'Keep Calm and Carry On'.

If the husband and wife had a joint net worth of (say) zero, but were using an interest charging banker as an intermediary, would they not improve their situation by paying down debt so they were in the same net position but with nil interest obligations?

Would not the banker have lost some of his ability to extract rent from them?

As to the gold issue, your VI is blinding you to the downsides of PMs.

[Austin Allegro]

It wasn't me...but I did write a radio play making fun of middle class left wing intellectuals. Needless to say the BBC rejected it!

[General Congreve]

If the husband and wife had a joint net worth of (say) zero, but were using an interest charging banker as an intermediary, would they not improve their situation by paying down debt so they were in the same net position but with nil interest obligations?

Would not the banker have lost some of his ability to extract rent from them?

As to the gold issue, your VI is blinding you to the downsides of PMs.

Actually, they'd be best off if she went bankrupt and he put all his fiat currency into a gold stash so the bank couldn't tap him up for his wife's debt. The point they are making is that usury is bad and that if people didn't save their money in banks to earn interest, then the greedy bankers couldn't use it to construct a destructive debt-based money system. However, that doesn't change reality, which is what this play started out discussing, namely how the main protagonist could best protect himself from impending financial disaster.

As I see it, the play touches on the following elements:

- The financial crisis and the real impending disaster to follow

- The evils of usury that got us into this mess

- How gold and silver can protect wealth in such a financial environment

- Implying that TPTB are complicit in the crisis and have engineered it so ordinary people turn to them and a one world currency, replete with RFID chip control for the masses, as a solution to the problem.

Unfortunately the way they are woven together only serves to confuse everything into one big meaningless muddle and leaves the unwitting listener believing:

- TPTB want me to invest in gold/silver with my fiat currency because they are evil

- If I just ignore this mess, hopefully it'll all go away

In summary an appalling radio play.

As for the fact I am a VI that is blinded to the fact gold can go down as well as up, that is total nonsense. Unless of course a VI is someone who wishes to maintain his wealth against the machinations of govt. and the banks. I know full well gold could go down, but it won't until we see decent positive real interest rates of at least 2%. This was shown to be the case by a recent moneyweek historical chart plotting gold price movements in the last 30 years against real interest rates. Feel welcome to tell me I am blind when real interest rates return to this level and I am still bullish on gold. Don't hold your breath.

Edited November 25, 2010 by General Congreve

[Timm]

Actually, they'd be best off if she went bankrupt and he put all his fiat currency into a gold stash so the bank couldn't tap him up for his wife's debt. The point they are making is that usury is bad and that if people didn't save their money in banks to earn interest, then the greedy bankers couldn't use it to construct a destructive debt-based money system. However, that doesn't change reality, which is what this play started out discussing, namely how the main protagonist could best protect himself from impending financial disaster.

As I see it, the play touches on the following elements:

- The financial crisis and the real impending disaster to follow

- The evils of usury that got us into this mess

- How gold and silver can protect wealth in such a financial environment

- Implying that TPTB are complicit in the crisis and have engineered it so ordinary people turn to them and a one world currency, replete with RFID chip control for the masses, as a solution to the problem.

Unfortunately the way they are woven together only serves to confuse everything into one big meaningless muddle and leaves the unwitting listener believing:

- TPTB want me to invest in gold/silver with my fiat currency because they are evil

- If I just ignore this mess, hopefully it'll all go away

Fair enough, I take your point.

As for the fact I am a VI that is blinded to the fact gold can go down as well as up, that is total nonsense. Unless of course a VI is someone who wishes to maintain his wealth against the machinations of govt. and the banks. I know full well gold could go down, but it won't until we see decent positive real interest rates of at least 2%. This was shown to be the case by a recent moneyweek historical chart plotting gold price movements in the last 30 years against real interest rates. Feel welcome to tell me I am blind when real interest rates return to this level and I am still bullish on gold. Don't hold your breath.

I wasn't talking about the fact that things can fall in price.

I was talking about the idea that the use of PMs as money tends to concentrate wealth in the hands of a few and hampers development and the attempts of the able but poor to work / trade their way out. I'm well aware that gold is working out very well for you, but that does not mean it would be the best and fairest form of money / wealth preservation.

Put it this way: How many houses have been built with your gold?

[General Congreve]

Fair enough, I take your point.

I wasn't talking about the fact that things can fall in price.

I was talking about the idea that the use of PMs as money tends to concentrate wealth in the hands of a few and hampers development and the attempts of the able but poor to work / trade their way out. I'm well aware that gold is working out very well for you, but that does not mean it would be the best and fairest form of money / wealth preservation.

Put it this way: How many houses have been built with your gold?

I take your point too. I don't think per se that gold or any other form of money concentrates wealth in the hands of the few. I think human nature and society do that whatever the form of money used, because there will always be those who are good at making money and far too many who are no good at controlling spending and end up giving any wealth they have to the few. Financial education from an early age would help remedy this. It is amazing that in a modern society that needs money to function that sound money management is not taught in schools. People are thrown to the mercy of the predatory banks as soon as they get into the real world, most without the skills (even the well educated) to understand how getting into debt ultimately leaves them out of pocket and in hock to the banks.

Your house argument confuses me. Houses were built when we had a gold standard were they not? We didn't just start building them in 1971 when we completely abandoned it did we? I would also add that in 1968, just prior to abandoning the gold standard, the average UK mortgage was 8 years. YES, 8 YEARS. And that with typically only one wage earner, not two people working for 30-40 years to pay off the debt on a tiny box. Yep, fiat currency has really done us a lot of favours.

Of course, having an inflexible (as in you have to earn wealth, not just print it) gold standard means that govts. can't print and deficit spend their way into being elected/re-elected. Of course this restricts their ability to pay for things the country can't afford, like a burgeoning NHS and a crushing welfare state. However, if you use a fiat currency system to buy these things, the long term prospects for them are no better than if you couldn't afford them in the first place, so the end result will be the same, but politically and socially much more painful when the corrupt system implodes.

That's not to say I don't agree with social policies that help redistribute wealth away from the top to the bottom and help social mobility, but using a fiat system to try to engineer this has failed and is failing miserably as we speak.

Consequently, any one (be he/her labourer, teacher, plumber, retiree, small business owner, salesman, mechanic, pompous Lord etc.) who has any stored wealth in paper currency, (whether it be dollar, euro, pound, canadian dollar etc.) would be well advised to switch some into real money as much needed insurance against losing the lot. The fairness, or lack of fairness of gold/silver doesn't come into it on a personal level. Do not expect other people to look out for you, they are not. Of course if you wish to give all your wealth away to the elite and the bought off underclass via inflation and devaluation, that is your choice.

Edited November 25, 2010 by General Congreve

[Riedquat]

People are thrown to the mercy of the predatory banks as soon as they get into the real world, most without the skills (even the well educated) to understand how getting into debt ultimately leaves them out of pocket.

Why should that even need teaching though? It's pretty obvious stuff. If it's down to an education failure then the failure is that people don't think at all and just expect to be able to follow a list of rules to get through life.

[General Congreve]

Why should that even need teaching though? It's pretty obvious stuff. If it's down to an education failure then the failure is that people don't think at all and just expect to be able to follow a list of rules to get through life.

I only have the grasp on finance because my Dad taught me what he knew and I was fortuitous to be able to study economics at school. If I hadn't been taught to read and write I'm sure I'd be ignorant of that too. Just because something seems obvious after the fact, it doesn't mean it is if you have no access to learn about it.

Bottom line is people are generally ignorant and happy not to think for themselves. This fact has been exploited by the banks, most notably in the debt markets, which has resulted in an HPI bubble of truly stupid proportions, hence why we find ourselves here.