SleepyHead Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 The banks need to be brought down. If that means bringing the whole f**king thing down on top of us. Frankly I think its worth it. I cannot stand seeing this monstrosity of a monetary system that wrecks so many peoples lives any more. Cantona is saying we need a revolution, and this is the way to achieve it. We have to destroy the system, in order to wrestle the reigns of power from the banks, and the banker corrupted politicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tallguy Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 The banks need to be brought down. If that means bringing the whole f**king thing down on top of us. Frankly I think its worth it. I cannot stand seeing this monstrosity of a monetary system that wrecks so many peoples lives any more. Cantona is saying we need a revolution, and this is the way to achieve it. We have to destroy the system, in order to wrestle the reigns of power from the banks, and the banker corrupted politicians. YES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyOne Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 I do not know his exact motivation and goals either, but 1) I'd be willing to bet his money isn't in the bank 2) If the aims of this campaign are really as basic as stated he'll be scoring an own goal with regards to ending the socialisation of private risk. I honestly don't care about the risks that he is taking. I am very conservative and find the socialisation of private risk to be absolutely abhorrent. "You pays your money and you takes your chances" should be the fundamental principle behind capitalism. I hate the fact that is has become "you pays your money and others take your chances if it doesn't work" has become the modern interpretation of "capitalism", mostly by the left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wanna house Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 Grass roots football got to start somewhere you know. why is this relevent to football ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tallguy Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 (edited) I honestly don't care about the risks that he is taking. I am very conservative and find the socialisation of private risk to be absolutely abhorrent. "You pays your money and you takes your chances" should be the fundamental principle behind capitalism. I hate the fact that is has become "you pays your money and others take your chances if it doesn't work" has become the modern interpretation of "capitalism", mostly by the left. Whilst I would wholeheartedly agree with your general position, I would take issue with with your last point.. This has got sod all to do with "left" or "right". These so called political dimensions are only ever an illusion. There was only ever "them" and the "rest of us". "Capititalism" is no more or less a piece of bullsh*t than "Communism". All of them are fairy stories designed to legitimise and sanitise the shafting of the majority by a minority. Same as it ever was. Edited November 21, 2010 by tallguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyHead Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 (edited) Incidentally. This bank run is scheduled for December 7th 2010. http://www.bankrun2010.com/ In my opinion, we better all get our cash out before the 7th. Cos if it works, believe me. No one will be able to withdraw anything by beyond 9:15am. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Uop5R7E314&feature=related Edited November 21, 2010 by worst time buyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wanna house Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 Incidentally. This bank run is scheduled for December 7th 2010. http://www.bankrun2010.com/ In my opinion, we better all get our cash out before the 7th. Cos if it works, believe me. No one will be able to withdraw anything by beyond 9:15am. http://www.youtube.c...feature=related do you really think so. Whats the worst that can happen, the banks run out of notes and coins ? why will this cause systemic collapse? Should i really be contacting my various banks to take all my money out ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tallguy Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 Incidentally. This bank run is scheduled for December 7th 2010. http://www.bankrun2010.com/ In my opinion, we better all get our cash out before the 7th. Cos if it works, believe me. No one will be able to withdraw anything by beyond 9:15am. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Uop5R7E314&feature=related A quote from the site's intro Our politicians can't meet both the interests of financial markets and those of its citizens. So, it is time to remind them who they were elected to serve.Strikes and demonstrations are no longer useful because whatever we do, we are not heard. And whatever they do, we are not consulted. So we decided to hit the system at its core - THE BANKING SYSTEM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyHead Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 (edited) do you really think so. Whats the worst that can happen, the banks run out of notes and coins ? why will this cause systemic collapse? Should i really be contacting my various banks to take all my money out ? I don't know. It depends on how big the run is, and how much deposit reserves the banks are carrying. Scary thing about a run, is precisely this mentality. Once word spreads that there is a run, or maybe will be a run.... then there is a run. And Eric Cantona, web sites with campaigns, and it being written about in the Guardian and other newspapers, looks like word spreading to me. Edited November 21, 2010 by worst time buyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tallguy Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 I don't know. It depends on how big the run is, and how much deposit reserves the banks are carrying. Scary thing about a run, is precisely this mentality. Once word spreads that there is a run, or maybe will be a run.... then there is run. And Eric Cantona, web sites with campaigns, and it being written about in the Guardian and other newspapers, looks like word spreading to me. The site's full intro Dear media,For a short time, the international press reported the call for a bankrun that we launched on Facebook to invite all those who wish to follow us to withdraw their money from their accounts on the 7th of December, 2010. Since the publication of our call, people around the world mobilized to translate the text into their language to recreate the event in their country, to promote our initiative by all possible means and invite their contacts to do the same. Our call has met with a success that we did not dare to hope for. We are very happy about it and thanks to the personal investment of all those who, like us, want to enjoy a healthy banking system, equitable, affordable and accountable, we hope that over the weeks we can convince enough people in the world to finally be heard by our respective Governments. For clarification purposes, we do not speak on behalf of any political party or from any labour union or religion. Our action is a civic involvement that keeps its distance from any form of hate or conspiracy theories that could be made on behalf of our movement, by others during their interventions on any areas of discussion, which is beyond our control. We only speak for ourselves and for no other organisations. We do not seek to harm anyone in particular. It's towards a corrupt, criminal and deadly system that we decided to oppose, as far as our ability our determination and respect for the law are concerned. Why have we launched this action? First of all, we wanted to raise public awareness on the functioning of the monetary system. The overwhelming majority of holders of a bank accounts, savings accounts or even a pension plan, are unaware the way money is created or what the banks are doing with the money that 'they are given. They know nothing about the principle of money as debt. They do not know the reality behind words like "asset bubbles", "Treasury bills", "Hedge Funds" or "securitization". Hence the media in general make little effort to inform in an objective, transparent and accessible way to all. The only thing the public really understands is that most major financial crimes and insider trading remain mostly unpunished, but they are the first to pay the consequences. Not only do we deplore how many questions posed by ordinary citizens on the economic situation remain without clear answers in your columns, but we also regret your lack of zeal in denouncing the measures that have allowed the global economic situation get to the point where it is today: a situation that has bought our heads of states and Governments to their knees before the rating agencies, trembling with fear at the idea that our currencies are deteriorating. Our politicians can't meet both the interests of financial markets and those of its citizens. So, it is time to remind them who they were elected to serve. Strikes and demonstrations are no longer useful because whatever we do, we are not heard. And whatever they do, we are not consulted. So we decided to hit the system at its core - THE BANKING SYSTEM Are we aware of the economic consequences that would result from the success of our action? We are especially aware of the consequences that the deregulated and uncontrollable global financial system will have on our jobs, our health, our education, our pensions, our industries, our environment, our future, our dignity, the dignity of the citizens of countries that the system has enslaved by debt that they will never be able to repay to better appropriate their resources. This is the fate that awaits people if we in the West do not take ourselves in hand. We are aware of the role this system plays in the prosperity of industrial empires whose interests depend on armed conflicts, diseases, food shortages and poverty prevailing in the countries that provide labour and natural resources at minimal cost. We are aware that this system will never have anything to gain from a world of peace and prosperity and that continuing to entrust our hard and honestly earned money to this sick system, we make ourselves accomplices of its thefts, for its crimes, its wars and the misery war generates. What do we want? We, the citizens of the 21st century, heirs of generations who have sacrificed so that we may live free and dignified, demand the creation of a CITIZENS BANK- serving citizens, a bank that would put our money away from speculative fever, free of all financial bubbles designed to burst one day, free of operations that transform our loans & assets and use our debt to buy other assets. We want banks that lend only the wealth they have. Banks that help small and medium enterprises to relocate jobs, & bank lending at zero rate. (*) Banks that support projects that benefit citizens rather than the "market". Banks where we can deposit our money, which will then create a peaceful conscience within ourselves. Banks we will not have to be worry about. Banks whose success will sound the death knell of the merchants of death, disease and slavery. On the ruins of the old system, we want to build a banking system that will no longer sacrifice more human dignity on the altar of profit. We, the people have finally been awakened by poverty and despair afflicting the most vulnerable among us - pensioners, welfare recipients or working poor - and is now threatening what remains of the middle class & entrepreneurs. Even these are exploited as milking cows, and we now simply want the cancellation of the public debts generated by the sick system that we no longer want. We do not want our taxes, our efforts, our resources to continue to feed this bottomless pit. We want to regain the power to coin money and free ourselves from the guidelines imposed on us by the European Union, which was built against the consent of the majority of people consulted by referendum, not to mention those whose country of origin have no organized popular consultation. (*) What the Islamic banks to successfully achieve by refusing usury for religious reasons, we can do for civic reasons. To conclude We draw your attention to the fact that even if we manage to relocate jobs, advanced technologies and machines have replaced human labour in a growing number of areas. They can produce more, faster, cheaper, and for these reasons, they create fear to those who wonder how they will earn their living tomorrow. This is unfortunate because since the invention of the wheel, technology is meant to improve the living conditions of mankind. If progress was meant to serve citizens rather than serve the market, we could make a quantum leap in technology development today paralyzed by special interest groups that are the primary beneficiaries of this system. We already have the knowledge to free humanity of its needs in fossil and nuclear fuels and to produce and deliver drinking water throughout the planet at a lower cost, to produce fruits and vegetables, from ice fields to the desert. Poverty only exists on our planet because of the lack of political will of industrialized countries, subject to market forces. Pollution and waste of resources are the sad consequences of this obsolete system which we must put an end to. We, the inheritors of chaos, we have a world to rebuild. A world where work is no longer seen as slavery, and lack of work as a tragedy because we have been able to rethink how mankind of tomorrow will ensure its survival, education, well-being and old age. We invite all those who want to follow us on this path - including you, dear journalists - to overcome their fears of the unknown and to lay the foundation stone for the construction of the system that will replace the current one, which with or without us, will eventually collapse when it has taken everything from us. We prefer not to wait until it arrives, or even worse, if in order to save the economy a new war would be declared. We thank the footballer Eric Cantona for having instilled the idea that we have taken literally. The die is cast. Time will tell whether we were right. (07/11/2010) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needsleep Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 I do not know his exact motivation and goals either, but 1) I'd be willing to bet his money isn't in the bank 2) If the aims of this campaign are really as basic as stated he'll be scoring an own goal with regards to ending the socialisation of private risk. Right. So you are saying that if we had another Northern Rock the losses would be socialised? That is what the coalition would do? Increase the national debt to guarantee/buy a private bank? If so how are they any different from Labour? Well I guess the answer is they're not that different really. The fact is he's talking about the political-financial system. It's the one we've had in the UK since the 80s and pretty much continued throughout all Labour and Conservative governments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needsleep Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 do you really think so. Whats the worst that can happen, the banks run out of notes and coins ? why will this cause systemic collapse? Should i really be contacting my various banks to take all my money out ? The worst is the banks face abnormal demand for withdrawals that they can't meet out their reserve. And can't borrow quickly or cheaply enough to increase the reserve to meet that demand. BoE enforces mimimum reserve of about 4% AFAIK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwatkins Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 ok, this wasn't supposed to be about class or snobbery or what I or we think about footballers - so I've changed it to savant, hope that helps (so to speak, now whose catchphrase was that) Personally I think Eric's great, although in my opinion he's misjudged this one as I don't think it will achieve what he wants so to clarify, the idea of the vote is whether we actually think taking money out of the banks en masse (or encouraging people to) is a step forward or not, not about whether you like Eric So lets get this straight. You believe that we shouldn't just have let the whole thing "collapse" after Lehman? Why would that have been bad? The system wouldn't have collapsed. The weak would have failed and the strong survived. Just that a lot of the rich and powerful would have taken a massive haircut e.g That phoney Warren Buffet for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwatkins Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 do you really think so. Whats the worst that can happen, the banks run out of notes and coins ? why will this cause systemic collapse? Should i really be contacting my various banks to take all my money out ? There are such things as feckin cheques you know. Achieves the same goal. Cash will soon run out. they never did have much liquid, even when I was in banking in the 70's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needsleep Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 Yes I'm saying that is the precedent we have to go with. I'm not sure what you mean by 'private bank'. This movement is not calling on people to take their money out of Coutts or Lazard but I assume just you run of the mill high street current account. What could this mean in practice? Panic. What will the likely [admittedly maybe short] result be? Probably that the government will say 'don't panic, f#ck a £50k deposit guarantee all monies held by depositors in bank accounts is safe'. I have no love for the coalation, or any government for that matter, so not sure what your reference to the particular government is about. What frustrates me most in this 'action' is the position of most depositors. I am very free market, I don't believe in socialisation of private risk. However what can I do? The global accounting standards have been suspended so as a saver I have absolutely zero way of knowing what any prospective bank holds, and I bet they don;t really know themselves. In this environment, someone thinks it's a good idea to risk eroding the remaining swathe of prudent savings and investments that were not malinvested? Why? I have no defence. What this action could precipitate is simply a continued enforcement of spending for the sake of it out of saving fear (precisely the government/BoEs plan), a further socialisation of losses due to the risk of depositor loss and therefore a win/win for the banks. The banks we are talking about are not private partnerships. We own them directly or indirectly. A Citizen's bank has its merits and flaws, but the process of achieving it - this means - is stupid. Apologies, by private bank I meant one we don't alread directly own via the state. The precedent point is interesting. Especially as the coalition have this core narrative about Labour building up our huge deficit purely through profligate public sector spending. The fact is that faced with another systemic banking crisis the coalition would do broadly the same thing. I share your frustrations but the current system is not sustainable. Something has to change. This particular action won't do that but it's a warning to the banks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Bart' Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 A bit like some of Yogi Berra's comments. They seem to be a bit silly until one thinks about them for a while longer ..... The one I like best is "Wherever you go, there you are", although I think Confucius said it originally. Also: "It’s deja-vu all over again." "He must have made that movie before he died." (these day's that's not so certain) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jut Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 What a thick way to set up this poll. You're wanting us to vote on Cantona, and you're giving us the choice of idiot or idiot savant? The guy is not an idiot, and he's not unintentionally intelligent either. The guy IS intelligent! This is an inspiring idea, and it takes someone like Cantona to get it moving. Anyone who mocks the seagulls comment, is just reciting the media's attempt to rubbish someone who actuallly told the truth about the way the media work. The media hated him for saying it, but I think he had guts to tell the truth! The guy is right. Don't put him down. :angry: He should be glad that there are stupid people out there as he made $$$$$$$$ millions from kicking a leather bag yet for all his efforts nothing tangible exists so he must be a very smart intelligent person to get away with it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 I thinkl Monsieur C comes over pretty well! Not sure what Rooney's cut on this would be!?? Yes he made money by kicking a bladder of wind around for 90 minutes! So what! Chacon a son gout! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reluctant Heretic Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 Its a protest - showing the banks and the politicians that the sheep have opinions and a few strings to pull of their own. About time!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martingale Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 (edited) Genius idea ... badly executed. They should have named the bank.... Without naming a bank either: Nothing happens More bailouts Total economic collapse. If they had named a bank.. Pick a bank that was bailed out but is opposing reform and still paying huge bonuses. (Secretly buy put options) Everyone withdraws from that bank Single bank actually collapses. Threaten other banks that unless they drop opposition and reduce compensation to bankers it will happen again Watch the market do your revolutionary work for you. Edited November 22, 2010 by martingale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reluctant Heretic Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 (edited) Genius idea ... badly executed. They should have named the bank.... Without naming a bank either: Nothing happens More bailouts Total economic collapse. If they had named a bank.. Pick a bank that was bailed out but is opposing reform and still paying huge bonuses. (Secretly buy put options) Everyone withdraws from that bank Single bank actually collapses. Threaten other banks that unless they drop opposition and reduce compensation to bankers it will happen again Watch the market do your revolutionary work for you. Trying to insert a Mr Burns 'Excellent' poster - failed! damn! It won't let me! Edited November 22, 2010 by Reluctant Heretic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 do you really think so. Whats the worst that can happen, the banks run out of notes and coins ? why will this cause systemic collapse? Should i really be contacting my various banks to take all my money out ? banking is 100% about confidence. It is in effect, a confidence trick. If any action, like taking your money OUT of a bank becomes impossible, would you be putting any IN anytime soon? And no, you cant take YOUR money out...you passed control of your tokens to them the moment YOU signed for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 Genius idea ... badly executed. They should have named the bank.... Without naming a bank either: Nothing happens More bailouts Total economic collapse. If they had named a bank.. Pick a bank that was bailed out but is opposing reform and still paying huge bonuses. (Secretly buy put options) Everyone withdraws from that bank Single bank actually collapses. Threaten other banks that unless they drop opposition and reduce compensation to bankers it will happen again Watch the market do your revolutionary work for you. the single bank wouldnt collapse...it would be closed immediately. then the "tanks on the streets" threats would start if they werent bailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Jib Fingers Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 Something needs to be done. The banks have priced us all out of a decent standard of living whilst paying themselves huge bonuses in the process. Still think he's one of the most over-rated footballers of all time though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martingale Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 the single bank wouldnt collapse...it would be closed immediately. then the "tanks on the streets" threats would start if they werent bailed. Still achieves the aim... Thinking along Cantona style lines how about national don't pay rent month. would really mess with multi-property land lords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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