OnlyMe Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 This trend will continue until costs equalise significantly, almost every move over the last few years has exacerbated cost differentials. Maybe a recession/depression will do it. Hewlett-Packard cutting 968 jobs in Britain http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsarticl...LETTPACKARD.xml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunroamin Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 This trend will continue until costs equalise significantly, almost every move over the last few years has exacerbated cost differentials.Maybe a recession/depression will do it. Hewlett-Packard cutting 968 jobs in Britain http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsarticl...LETTPACKARD.xml <{POST_SNAPBACK}> good title Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Used to be one of the best IT jobs to get in the UK - many an agent tried to sell me HP on that basis and on security. We will all be hairdressers soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nem Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 I also work in the IT sector and lost my last job earlier this year when the account was outsourced to Bangalore, last week it was announced that my current job will also be outsourced sometime in the next 12 months. Only reasonably safe jobs in IT are now Desktop/Network related or Project work, the vast majority of support type roles from 1st level to server management (my previous job) are easy pickings for the "we'll get if done cheaper and keep the current service level agreements" however as we all know, this is not the case. These companies who are moving the support out of the UK must be feeling the pinch moneywise, as why would they risk a total breakdown of their infrastructure for just a few millions euro's? The next few years are going to hurt it seems, and a HPC will only add fuel to the fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xian Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 this is interesting. When the dotcom bubble burst, HP were one of the first to initiate a redundancy scheme (voluntary for the first round). Other companies followed suit. I wouldn't be surprised if we see other big players do likewise over the coming months, esp. if HP increase profitability as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apom Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 I also work in the IT sector and lost my last job earlier this year when the account was outsourced to Bangalore, last week it was announced that my current job will also be outsourced sometime in the next 12 months.Only reasonably safe jobs in IT are now Desktop/Network related or Project work, the vast majority of support type roles from 1st level to server management (my previous job) are easy pickings for the "we'll get if done cheaper and keep the current service level agreements" however as we all know, this is not the case. These companies who are moving the support out of the UK must be feeling the pinch moneywise, as why would they risk a total breakdown of their infrastructure for just a few millions euro's? The next few years are going to hurt it seems, and a HPC will only add fuel to the fire. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tell me about it... I am now a network manager for a small software firm.. less then a hundred heads.. Too small to outsource.. I hope.. garrrgh... Oh look arent we all so rich in England.. does someone have collated figures for how many jobs are getting axed.. its seems to be over a thousand a week... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portent Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 IT here too. I'm lucky so far but all around me we're outsourcing (who are then offshoring). I expect my job to be soon. Luckily I don't have a mortgage around my neck to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isv Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 I'm in IT too. I'm jumping before I'm pushed.... Just no real future in IT any more - simply too many excellent UK IT workers chasing too few high-paying roles. Our Indian friends are now working their way up the food chain and moving into the more skilled areas (e.g. architecture). I've had a good run of it but simply have to realise that in (1,2,3,4) 5 years time I won't be able to get the income I'm currently enjoying. If I have to work for a pittance then I might as well make sure its something I both enjoy and can work at for the next 20 years or so. Get out and use your time productively whilst you can.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newaccount99 Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 I've had a good run of it but simply have to realise that in (1,2,3,4) 5 years time I won't be able to get the income I'm currently enjoying. If I have to work for a pittance then I might as well make sure its something I both enjoy and can work at for the next 20 years or so. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My feelings exactly, we are in the process of being outsourced (Tupe transfer)....they are talking about a guaranteed period of employment with the new partner but we all know there will be cuts and further (we aready do loads) offshoring. I've had 10 years in the industry and guess have 1-5 more to go.....when the salary drops why fight for an IT job...go off and do something more rewarding and enjoyable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BandWagon Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 HP are nothing more than a dolled-up ink company. Quite frankly the sooner people realise they're paying £1000 a litre for ink that costs f'all the better! I won't miss them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 HP are nothing more than a dolled-up ink company.Quite frankly the sooner people realise they're paying £1000 a litre for ink that costs f'all the better! I won't miss them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You'll look pretty silly dolloping a pot of ink on your sausage and chips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
how much...?? you must be joking Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 HP are nothing more than a dolled-up ink company.Quite frankly the sooner people realise they're paying £1000 a litre for ink that costs f'all the better! I won't miss them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ..utterly clueless comment.. ..what you're really saying is... 'all i know about them is they sell printers'.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tenant super Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 good title <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Is that blood or Ketchup on the streets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uro_who Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 I just advertised a PHP/MySQL job and cwjobs and none of you lot applied. I offered the going rate plus generous profit share (I'm quite happy to pay a programmer the same as a salesman if his input is the same). I got a few applicants from the UK and loads from India and Eastern Europe. The downside? I expect the candidate to live in Nottingham/Derbyshire, to much hassle obviously for the Brits but not to much hassle for the Indians/Eastern Europeans. Go on tell me I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xian Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 (edited) HP are nothing more than a dolled-up ink company.Quite frankly the sooner people realise they're paying £1000 a litre for ink that costs f'all the better! I won't miss them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, printers account for a successful part of the huge overall business, but they also do an enormous range of IT hardware, operating system software, applications, technical services, outsourcing solutions, and consulting services. They probably do loads more I don't know about. I don't think the company is going anywhere, so who is it you will not miss? Maybe you work there and you're referring to some of your soon-to-be-ex-colleagues .... or maybe you work there and YOU'RE being made redundant and you won't miss the company and colleagues? Edited September 14, 2005 by xian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyMe Posted September 14, 2005 Author Share Posted September 14, 2005 I just advertised a PHP/MySQL job and cwjobs and none of you lot applied. I offered the going rate plus generous profit share (I'm quite happy to pay a programmer the same as a salesman if his input is the same). I got a few applicants from the UK and loads from India and Eastern Europe. The downside? I expect the candidate to live in Nottingham/Derbyshire, to much hassle obviously for the Brits but not to much hassle for the Indians/Eastern Europeans. Go on tell me I'm wrong. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think you'll find that when people realise that that the job (or indeed career) to which they thought they had invested time and effort into getting into can be swiped away in an sinatnt then they will look for alternatives. Not sure what the going rate is, but obviously an attractive going rate for somebody who may well do the job for a while and then return to their country where the money earnt will buy a hell of a lot more than over here. Technical careers tend to be short anyway, if you can't make enough money while you are young you are stuffed unless management is your bag (limited roles in that area). Actually the interest you seem to be getting from foreign applicants and the keenness with which the govt. encourage ever more work displacement by cheap foreign nationals would suggest that those who decide to leave the technical arena and do something else that may have more longevity and stability is well founded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvent Celt Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 I just advertised a PHP/MySQL job and cwjobs and none of you lot applied. I offered the going rate plus generous profit share (I'm quite happy to pay a programmer the same as a salesman if his input is the same). I got a few applicants from the UK and loads from India and Eastern Europe. The downside? I expect the candidate to live in Nottingham/Derbyshire, to much hassle obviously for the Brits but not to much hassle for the Indians/Eastern Europeans. Go on tell me I'm wrong. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Out of interest if the foreigners were not allowed to move to the UK would the "going rate" have to increase??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BandWagon Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 (edited) ..utterly clueless comment.. ..what you're really saying is... 'all i know about them is they sell printers'.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually wrong. What it says is that I'm very well aware of how HP make their money. I have been a fan of HP calculators since the mid 80's, and I have friends who work for them currently. I was completely amazed when they stopped making calculators in 2002. When did you last have a look at an HP earnings report? http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/investor/financia...resentation.pdf Enterprise Storage & Servers: $150m 11% HP Services $256m 19% Software ($40m) -3% Personal Systems $163m 12% Imaging & Printing $771m 57% HP Financial Services $58m 4% HP make most of their profits from the imaging and printing division. Guess where that money comes from? They aren't making massive profits from selling disposable printers at £100 a piece. Nope, it comes from selling ink. Black stuff in little plastic cases, at £1000 a litre. Guess where making computers comes in? Thats 3rd place, a fifth of the profit from selling ink. Thats the division that's currently getting it's butt kicked by Dell. Without the ink selling business HP would be a small shadow of it's current self. Almost 60% of their profits are derived from selling ink. Their primary business is selling ink. It's an ink company. There, does that clear things up for you? Edited September 14, 2005 by BandWagon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiting Patiently Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 (edited) Talking of losing IT jobs, I heard yesterday that the IT division of Unilever is to be outsourced to Dell in Holland within 2 years Edited September 14, 2005 by Waiting Patiently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
how much...?? you must be joking Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 When did you last have a look at an HP earnings report?http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/investor/financia...resentation.pdf Enterprise Storage & Servers:    $150m      11% HP Services                 $256m      19% Software                    ($40m)     -3% Personal Systems             $163m      12% Imaging & Printing             $771m      57% HP Financial Services            $58m      4% HP make most of their profits from the imaging and printing division. Guess where that money comes from? They aren't making massive profits from selling disposable printers at £100 a piece. Nope, it comes from selling ink. Black stuff in little plastic cases, at £1000 a litre. Guess where making computers comes in? Thats 3rd place, a fifth of the profit from selling ink. Thats the division that's currently getting it's butt kicked by Dell. Without the ink selling business HP would be a small shadow of it's current self. Almost 60% of their profits are derived from selling ink. Their primary business is selling ink. It's an ink company. There, does that clear things up for you? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> well... as i'm a SAN consultant for them i get quite regular access to the earnings reports... no one would argue a massive part of the companies profits come from the image & print division... although those profits are far from being simply ink sales... but even if this division is eventually spun off to form a separate company as has been rumoured (similar to the case of hp's medical technology division)... you are still left with an IT company turning a profit of $587million in one quarter..!! ..so to refer to hp as an ink company is quite simply... as i said... clueless... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Talking of losing IT jobs, I heard yesterday that the IT division of Unilever is to be outsourced to Dell in Holland within 2 years<{POST_SNAPBACK}> PMSL - It was in the news last week that Dell were outsourcing their customer care department to India .......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BandWagon Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 (edited) ..utterly clueless comment.. ..what you're really saying is... 'all i know about them is they sell printers'.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quite frankly if you make false assumptions about people when you have completely no idea, you shouldn't leave the evidence for them! It's quite clear from the above quote that you assumed I only thought HP make printers. You were wrong. ..so to refer to hp as an ink company is quite simply... as i said... clueless... Sadly, instead of apologising or admitting you mistake, you try to make yourself look clever. I feel very sorry that you feel you have to make condescending personal comments about people to get your point across. Edited September 14, 2005 by BandWagon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nem Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Talking of losing IT jobs, I heard yesterday that the IT division of Unilever is to be outsourced to Dell in Holland within 2 years<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yup, I can confirm that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
how much...?? you must be joking Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Quite frankly if you make false assumptions about people when you have completely no idea, you shouldn't leave the evidence for them!It's quite clear from the above quote that you assumed I only thought HP make printers. You were wrong. Sadly, instead of apologising or admitting you mistake, you try to make yourself look clever. I feel very sorry that you feel you have to make condescending personal comments about people to get your point across. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...no need to make myself look clever... and nothing to apologise for.... ...as for admitting mistakes.... i didn't make a mistake.. i was quite sure you could use google to find revenue reports... but that still didn't back up your mistaken claim that 'hp are an ink company'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgeingBabyBoomer Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 I just advertised a PHP/MySQL job and cwjobs and none of you lot applied. I offered the going rate plus generous profit share (I'm quite happy to pay a programmer the same as a salesman if his input is the same). I got a few applicants from the UK and loads from India and Eastern Europe. The downside? I expect the candidate to live in Nottingham/Derbyshire, to much hassle obviously for the Brits but not to much hassle for the Indians/Eastern Europeans. Go on tell me I'm wrong. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Err, excuse me, what exactly is the downside to living in Nottinghamshire/Debyshire? there are some reallly nice little villages round there withquite affordable housing. I was born/raised in Notts, and would glady quit the smoke to live there again. I don't know a lot about mySQL/PHP, but being an eniginee,r could pick it up. Why not post the details here? What is your 'going rate' ABB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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