equitystasher Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 (edited) Firefighters are not heroes. They are paid to do a job. They know what they are getting into when they accept the job. If they don't want to do it, they shouldn't do the job. Is firefighting dangerous ? Not really. Being a salesperson is probably more dangerous, as probably more salespeople die per year on the roads than firefighters die in callouts. I don't offer any respect to firefighters because of the job they do. What I do think is that they should be remunerated appropriately. In particular, if they re injured and forced to retire in the line of duty they should be appropriately compensated. If they put their lives on the line for society, it is only right that society looks after them when they are injured. They shouldn't be allowed to have second jobs, as this may make them more tired and unable to do their first job effectively. They should be remunerated at market rates and have the same working conditions imposed as any other group. Regarding pensions, they should be allowed to draw a pension at an earlier age. However, if they decide to continue to work then they should lose the pension for the duration they are in work. Drawing a pension from the state and doing a job simultaneously is taking a job off someone else in a society where jobs are scarce. I think the World Trade Center shows you the ethos of the job Firefighters do. They go in when everyone else in running away and are peoples last hope in many situations How you can compare that to a salesman driving around the M25 in his BMW? Why should they not be allowed to have second jobs if it does not affect theior main employment? Now one asks that of anyone else? Also they are taking responsibility for themselves and trying to support their families. Edited October 20, 2010 by equitystasher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mary hinge Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 They spend a tiny fraction of their time running into burning buildings, just as soldiers spend a fraction of their time in firefights and police spend a tiny fraction of their time in high speed chases. The people in the fire brigagde, police, army, navy, airforce etc etc may join for other reasons but they all do it for a pay packet. There is nothing special about the fire brigade, the blokes wouldnt do it for free. All they are interested in is their pay packet the same as anyone else that works.....why else would they all have 2 jobs and constantly be striking for more money? You don't know the fire service - some would do it for free. For some it's considered more than a job. And as for "they all have 2 jobs" - you're some cookie if you have knowledge of all fire service personnel. And even if they do - what fecking business is it of yours - how many people in the country have more than one job. As for "constantly striking" - don't be a knob all your life, take ten minutes off, eh.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 You don't know the fire service - some would do it for free. For some it's considered more than a job. And as for "they all have 2 jobs" - you're some cookie if you have knowledge of all fire service personnel. And even if they do - what fecking business is it of yours - how many people in the country have more than one job. As for "constantly striking" - don't be a knob all your life, take ten minutes off, eh.... ffs - they get paid too much, basic supply and demand, otherwise there wouldn't be a waiting list to join the fire service. Everything else, includiong everything I see you have posted above, is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Everyone does a job for a pay-packet. Just happens that some jobs are better than others. Most firefighters are prepared to risk their own lives, especially in a "persons reported". That is what they get paid for. They get the wage that they do because those risks are built in. Soldiers get paid what they do because their lives are at risk. Police wages the same. None of these blokes are turning down NASA jobs because they are geniuses. The wage is good for the education they have and what they do. Saving lives as part of your job isn't a bad perk. Don't think many of them would describe themselves as "heroes", but I bet it's a damn sight better job than you have got, with far more job satisfaction. Nope. I just wonder here "Who's the Dik"?. Apart from you? They still are! PS If they're on strike, they have and always will turn out to a house fire with persons trapped. And to underline again for the ones who selectivley ignore facts, this possible strike is over far more than changes to shifts. Bolox! I spent 9 years in the British army and spent much of that on deployment. I know all about risking life, civilian aid, saving life and doing the job for a pay packet. I know far more about hardship and being underpaid and under appreciated than any of the strike brigade too. I also remember units, my own included, returning from tours to be trained and deployed with green goddesses. Guys that had been away 6 months going straight to firefighting with no family time or r+r. Guys doing firefighting then going straight on deployment. Guys that were employed as soldiers but expected to risk life doing a job that they were not trained to do whilst the strike brigade sat by whining about pay. There are no facts to ignore. They refused and ignored calls. They were also responsible for several. They are only striking because the shift change will take paid sleep time from them and intefere with their second jobs. Sympathy? Not from this callsign! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 You don't know the fire service - some would do it for free. For some it's considered more than a job. And as for "they all have 2 jobs" - you're some cookie if you have knowledge of all fire service personnel. And even if they do - what fecking business is it of yours - how many people in the country have more than one job. As for "constantly striking" - don't be a knob all your life, take ten minutes off, eh.... It is you that doesnt know the fire brigade love. Mary unhinged, you dont know what you are talking about. Go annoy people at mums net or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mary hinge Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 ffs - they get paid too much, basic supply and demand, otherwise there wouldn't be a waiting list to join the fire service. Everything else, includiong everything I see you have posted above, is irrelevant. A balanced and reasoned arguement, if ever I heard one.... Read point 1 of my last post to understand why there is a waiting list. Oh, and maybe because of "london's burning" as well. And what else is irrelevant? Their right to do more than one job? The total ****** of "constantly striking". Please enlighten me. As stated until the point of exhaustion now, any London strike has Feck All to do with money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 ffs - they get paid too much, basic supply and demand, otherwise there wouldn't be a waiting list to join the fire service. Everything else, includiong everything I see you have posted above, is irrelevant. Exactly! 14 applicants per post. They arent signing up out of devotion, it isnt a jihadist movement. They do it because it is a good wage, the best many of them can hope for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mary hinge Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 It is you that doesnt know the fire brigade love. Mary unhinged, you dont know what you are talking about. Go annoy people at mums net or something Thanks Duckie... Looks like you're getting a little too hot under the collar spouting pish about something you know little about, but hey, give the firey's a call - they'll get their hoses out and keep you cool ( unless the ungrateful besterds are oot on strike - agian....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 (edited) A balanced and reasoned arguement, if ever I heard one.... 1. you're an idiot Read point 1 of my last post to understand why there is a waiting list. Oh, and maybe because of "london's burning" as well. 2. yes, you support my case. And what else is irrelevant? Their right to do more than one job? most full time jobs do not leave you with the capacity to do another job, so firemen are underworked, which is the same as saying they are overpaid The total ****** of "constantly striking". well it has happened more than, say, civil service secretarial pools striking Please enlighten me. you are a grade A twonk, the entire above thread is working on enlightening you, to which you deny everything Edited October 20, 2010 by Si1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Thanks Duckie... Looks like you're getting a little too hot under the collar spouting pish about something you know little about, ) not spouting pish at all. It is something that I know far more about than you do. Your support for the service is admirable but misguided. I am not joe public whining about the services being overpaid and under appreciating them. I speak from from experience and am telling it like it is. They are well paid for the job they do and are striking because of a shift change. The Army dont strike, the navy dont strike, the air force dont strike, the police dont strike, nurses doctors and ambulances pretty much dont strike. What do they all have in common? Crap pay, crap hours and dangerous jobs. There is nothing special about the fire brigade apart from their inflated sense of importance and greed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mary hinge Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 1. you're an idiot 2. yes, you support my case. most full time jobs do not leave you with the capacity to do another job, so firemen are underworked, which is the same as saying they are overpaid well it has happened more than, say, civil service secretarial pools striking you are a grade A twonk, the entire above thread is working on enlightening you, to which you deny everything Class post. I am much enlightened. As for point 1 - we'll get back to that. Point 2 - fireys do a 48 hour shift over 4 days. They then have 4 days off. I suppose in your totalitarian state, they're supposed to lie in their w@nking chariots for those four days and not dare cross the threshold until it's time to return to work? As an aside, I know plenty of taxi driver's whose main job is not taxi-ing... ( And there may even be a few firefighters in that number). civil service secretarial pools? Now I must admit - you've got me on the ropes there. As for being a twonk and an idiot - that's as maybe. But i'm probably a more informed twonk and idiot than you in this particular subject. But it looks like I'll just have to yield to your vastly superior knowledge and reasoned arguement.... You ballbag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 But it looks like I'll just have to yield to your vastly superior knowledge and reasoned arguement.... yep You ballbag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mary hinge Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 not spouting pish at all. It is something that I know far more about than you do. Your support for the service is admirable but misguided. I am not joe public whining about the services being overpaid and under appreciating them. I speak from from experience and am telling it like it is. They are well paid for the job they do and are striking because of a shift change. The Army dont strike, the navy dont strike, the air force dont strike, the police dont strike, nurses doctors and ambulances pretty much dont strike. What do they all have in common? Crap pay, crap hours and dangerous jobs. There is nothing special about the fire brigade apart from their inflated sense of importance and greed. Superb. I'd love to have you on the watch - sound like a top bloke that can be relied on. As for the Army, Air Force, police etc - totally pointless waste of electrons posting that - it's their choice from choosing a profession that cannot strike. I love how the forum goes on about "sheeple" and "serfs", yet as soon as a group make any noises about standing up to authority, they get rogered for doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 a 48 hour shift over 4 days. They then have 4 days off. So they work 48 hours over 8 days. No big deal. Most do that as 12hr shifts, 4 on 4 off. 12 hours work, 12 hours off followed by 4 rest days. Pretty cushy, work 6 months a year, 5 after leave. If they can use their rest days gainfully and make extra money then good luck to them. A second job should not interfere with their primary roll though. If they dont want to change shifts because it interferes with second jobs or lifestyles then they have the same option that every employee has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mary hinge Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 yep Thanks - I'll have to pop in more often from mumsnet to get another masterclass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 (edited) Superb. I'd love to have you on the watch - sound like a top bloke that can be relied on. As for the Army, Air Force, police etc - totally pointless waste of electrons posting that - it's their choice from choosing a profession that cannot strike. I love how the forum goes on about "sheeple" and "serfs", yet as soon as a group make any noises about standing up to authority, they get rogered for doing so. I probably covered your watch last time you were at home whining. And did a better job with equipment 10 times older and a tenth of the training. Would like to have seen the strike brigade to to backfill for us though As for being relied on, you have no idea. hahahaha, their fault for choosing a job where they cant strike? says it all about you lot really. So do guys choose that job because they know they will be able to strike? Edited October 20, 2010 by richyc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Monk Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 My BiL is a fireman and he says the worst part of the job is not firefighting but recovering suicides from railway lines, and accident victims. Incidentally, I note that my own occupation, truck driver, is more dangerous than being either in the Police or fire service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mary hinge Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 So they work 48 hours over 8 days. No big deal. Most do that as 12hr shifts, 4 on 4 off. 12 hours work, 12 hours off followed by 4 rest days. Pretty cushy, work 6 months a year, 5 after leave. If they can use their rest days gainfully and make extra money then good luck to them. A second job should not interfere with their primary roll though. If they dont want to change shifts because it interferes with second jobs or lifestyles then they have the same option that every employee has. No-ones saying that the 48 hours is a big deal. And any change in shift structure will not impact on the 4 on, 4 off rolling pattern ( unless a fifth group is introduced). Therefore, no arguement can be levied against firefighters saying that they are worried about changes interfering with secondary jobs. Like it or not, fighting fires can be an inherently dangerous task. It is risk managed to reduce the danger, but it cannot be totally eliminated. The changes being proposed have the capacity to reduce the number of appliances and firefighters on duty at night - this makes it more dangerous for fireys at a time when deaths are on the increase, and for the public. This is a main part of the rejection of changes to the shifts, and the letters sent by LFB bullying the workforce into accepting these changes do not help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mary hinge Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 (edited) I probably covered your watch last time you were at home whining. And did a better job with equipment 10 times older and a tenth of the training. Would like to have seen the strike brigade to to backfill for us though As for being relied on, you have no idea. hahahaha, their fault for choosing a job where they cant strike? says it all about you lot really. So do guys choose that job because they know they will be able to strike? So you're an AssetCo hero? Certainly seem to have a downer on the fire service - were you rejected many times? Don't get your last point - you started banging on about professions that can't strike -WTF has that got to do with LFB? Edited October 20, 2010 by mary hinge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doicare Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Shift system - 2 days, 2 nights – four off. Which with four watches leaves 3 quarters of the work force on leave at any on time, add those on sick and on leave from the on duty watch what have you got? A joke. I started the system after striking in the 70s I did not think it would last a month it has been with us for over 30 years. As for pensions, my mate retired 6 months ago with the rank of fire fighter - £90,000 lump sum and £14,000 per year until death of himself , his wife also receives full pension until she dies. His lump sum was some 20% higher than the norm as he had been rented out by the county council to a private company for 3 year prior to retirement. The FBU will strike to protect pensions, shift system and the beds on the night shift. London want to shut stations at night that cover office areas that have no life risk outside office hours this is known as Day Manning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1888 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 I probably covered your watch last time you were at home whining. And did a better job with equipment 10 times older and a tenth of the training. Would like to have seen the strike brigade to to backfill for us though As for being relied on, you have no idea. trumpet or bugle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mary hinge Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Shift system - 2 days, 2 nights – four off. Which with four watches leaves 3 quarters of the work force on leave at any on time, add those on sick and on leave from the on duty watch what have you got? A joke. I started the system after striking in the 70s I did not think it would last a month it has been with us for over 30 years. As for pensions, my mate retired 6 months ago with the rank of fire fighter - £90,000 lump sum and £14,000 per year until death of himself , his wife also receives full pension until she dies. His lump sum was some 20% higher than the norm as he had been rented out by the county council to a private company for 3 year prior to retirement. The FBU will strike to protect pensions, shift system and the beds on the night shift. London want to shut stations at night that cover office areas that have no life risk outside office hours this is known as Day Manning. FBU didn't strike to protect pensions. The 30 year pensions are no more, and haven't been for over 5 years. It's now a 40 year pension if you have joined since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mary hinge Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Shift system - 2 days, 2 nights – four off. Which with four watches leaves 3 quarters of the work force on leave at any on time, add those on sick and on leave from the on duty watch what have you got? A joke. And is this not the case with any 24 hour operation? I can't see how you will change this without vastly increasing the hours a firefighter would have to work per week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doicare Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Existing members would not strike for people that had not even joined yet and the way to change the shift system – variable manning, which is exactly what London is trying to introduce. I make no judgements If you are prepared to pay for it so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 So you're an AssetCo hero? Certainly seem to have a downer on the fire service - were you rejected many times? Don't get your last point - you started banging on about professions that can't strike -WTF has that got to do with LFB? assetco? rejected? I am talking about OP FRESCO. Maybe you were too busy typing to notice other posts, go back a few pages and read mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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