Vince: Send The Young Unemployed To India To Do Apprenticeships

[stormymonday_2011]

I can 100% back this up. Most of the Indians that came over to us trained on the job when they got here. The company almost completely stopped all graduate and MA programs as most of the skilled ICT workers filled junior roles. Seen it in action and it stinks. And it was on UK government work too.

Stand up and take a bow Accenture, CapGemini, HP-EDS and all the others who use the intra company employyee transfer scam

UK positions supposedly made redundant and then backfilled from abroad (ie the jobs were not redundant at all so the sackings were legally breach of contract)

And as the man says this is all on UK Government contracts so your taxes are funding it.

British politicians and company bosses are in cahoots on this racket

While I am in a biblical frame of mind here is another quote worth remembering when some mendacious twit like Cable starts pontificating on the subject

"He abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own; for he is a liar, and the father of it. " (Jn. 8:44-45).

.

Edited September 19, 2010 by realcrookswearsuits

[stormymonday_2011]

Dupe

Edited September 19, 2010 by realcrookswearsuits

[Kyoto]

I can 100% back this up. Most of the Indians that came over to us trained on the job when they got here. The company almost completely stopped all graduate and MA programs as most of the skilled ICT workers filled junior roles. Seen it in action and it stinks. And it was on UK government work too.

This comment about indians replacing graduates has come up on a few threads here recently and on other forums I visit.

It really is strikingly true - I've worked on tens of projects in various industries, and at nearly 30, have always been the youngest guy on the team. Have frequently managed older Indian guys though, many of whom have clearly been learning as they went along.

I have never been concerned about offshoring, but without a hint of racism, it's as though we are being infiltrated from the inside and via the ICT back door! If a company has a team of Indians working on an implementation project, it seems the natural progression to completely offshore the maintenance and enhancement. Especially as we aren't training up the next generation here at home.

Edited September 19, 2010 by Kyoto

[OnlyMe]

This comment about indians replacing graduates has come up on a few threads here recently and on other forums I visit.

It really is strikingly true - I've worked on tens of projects in various industries, and at nearly 30, have always been the youngest guy on the team. Have frequently managed older Indian guys though, many of whom have clearly been learning as they went along.

I have never been concerned about offshoring, but without a hint of racism, it's as though we are being infiltrated from the inside and via the ICT back door! If a company has a team of Indians working on an implementation project, it seems the natural progression to completely offshore the maintenance and enhancement. Especially as we aren't training up the next generation here at home.

Vince wants grads and the unemployed to "train" in India - translation - conveniently ****** off and disappear off the unemployment figures for a while, it is incconvenient having you unemployed and in the UK whilst we are training your permanent replacement indians grads and are screaming skills shortages.

Edited September 19, 2010 by OnlyMe

[miko]

Vince wants grads and the unemployed to "train" in India - translation - conveniently ****** off and disappear off the unemployment figures for a while, it is incconvenient having you unemployed and in the UK whilst we are training your permanent replacement indians grads and are screaming skills shortages.

Yes

and adding to the number of britts accused of refusing to work.

[billybong]

India is not a great place to live for the average joe. My Indian friends at work tell me this all the time. It is dirty, has poor transport, unsanitary, is corrupt to the core. It is only a valid choice if you have established yourself and can live a genuinely middle class lifestyle. It is not a place for youngsters, except perhaps the more adventurous and open-minded gap year round the world types.

I wasn't making any claim on what it's like to live there although I'm sure your description does ring true.

My point is purely an economic one. If UK house prices were allowed to drop then it would significantly help UK workers to compete with the likes of Indian workers whose overall cost of living including housing seems to be about one fifth of UK workers and perhaps even less than one fifth.

Then the likes of Vince wouldn't have an excuse to always try to imply that the UK's employment circumstances are because UK workers aren't willing enough given a level field and we wouldn't have to listen to his very dubious anecdotes such as the 500 specialist engineers that he's not prepared to give any details about so that the story can be verified.

For the sake of repeating myself I am NOT advertising India as a cheap place to live even if it might well be for some especially compared to the UK.

Edited September 19, 2010 by billybong

[eightiesgirly]

You've got to admit though, it is a bit more exciting than a YOP scheme.

New government ....same $hit, different face!

[Self Employed Youth]

Yes

and adding to the number of britts accused of refusing to work.

Give them a couple of/few quid an hour rather than less/up to 90p ph when they do 40 hours work, compared to benefit. Nobody in their right mind works at a loss/for a pittance, although a few do, they are a retarded minority, in the UK at least.

Edited September 19, 2010 by Unemployed Youth

[Snugglybear]

The only way Vince's idea would work is if it were compulsory - for the employers.

Call their bluff on the constant cries of "can't get the skilled workers in Britain". Stop visas for workers from India, insist that the employers send British workers to India to be trained to their oh-so-high standards, at the employers' expense, including travel and subsistence, and the British workers then return home to take up those hard-to-fill jobs.

Then we'll see whether they actually do it, what with the India education and training system being so superior, or whether it was all an excuse.

[repetitive bleats]

India has millions living absolute poverty why would they want a load of unemployed brits. Anyway it's virtually impossible for foreigners to work in India. I'm sure they're going to change that for Vince. I can just see WIMPRO or INFOSYS employing a load of unemployed brits. What a plank.

i tell you what. if i could outsource work to British developers working abroad for a fraction of the cost - i'd do it at the drop of a hat. i've long thought about relocating my entire company to China or somewhere if only I could convince the rest of my team to drop everything. We'd be world beating - UK quality at Chinese prices. Sadly they have houses, family, kids at school etc...

[Saberu]

i tell you what. if i could outsource work to British developers working abroad for a fraction of the cost - i'd do it at the drop of a hat. i've long thought about relocating my entire company to China or somewhere if only I could convince the rest of my team to drop everything. We'd be world beating - UK quality at Chinese prices. Sadly they have houses, family, kids at school etc...

How much do you pay them per month right now? It's actually a very good idea because not only are living costs lower in China but tax is very low too and if you just have a small team I don't think anyone would notice if you didn't register for tax.

There are companies right now which allow foreign schools to teach A-levels, GCSE's etc so their children could learn those over here most likely.

It's possible to live a very middle class lifestyle and save a lot of money on a modest salary like 2000 pounds/ month. If you have highly skilled developers you are probably paying closer to 4000 / month I'd guess. But to expect them to take a Chinese salary like 500 pounds/ month is an insult. Even though salaries are lower in China, they still need to pay Western level salaries- 1000-2000 pounds/ month (equivalent of 3-4k in the UK) to get sufficiently skilled staff unless you want Chinese quality.

Hong Kong is another option, much more expensive than mainland China but the tax rate is just 16.5% for income tax. Problem is I imagine schooling in Hong Kong would be expensive.

My personal approach to this problem is I am going to find Chinese staff, pay them a Chinese salary then just train them up myself so I get a skilled worker for a fraction of the cost.

Edited September 20, 2010 by Saberu

[madpenguin]

My personal approach to this problem is I am going to find Chinese staff, pay them a Chinese salary then just train them up myself so I get a skilled worker for a fraction of the cost.

And therein lies the problem for the UK economy (Not having a go at you Saberu I, I've often thought about the same thing).

When one person does this it's a useful competitive advantage when everyone does it, it means economic collapse for the UK economy, or at least severe problems with employment.

The most important priority for a business is to make a profit while paying as little in costs as is practically possible, the most important priority for a Government should be to maintain order and stability and the economic well being of the country.

Successive Government's seem to have developed the mindset that whatever is good for business is good for the country which is clearly not the case.

The Chinese government clearly has the right idea:

China tells foreign businesses 'to stop complaining'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/china-business/7999532/China-tells-foreign-businesses-to-stop-complaining.html

Edited September 20, 2010 by madpenguin

[billybong]

Cable on BBC2 now. Waffling on and trying to blag and bluster his way through.

Clegg's speech is in 15 minutes. No doubt he will fill everyone in about ConVince's proposals to bring in lots of new people from outside the UK to be trained in the UK and to send lots of young UK graduate workers to India to be trained there to do the same work.

More likely he'll just not mention it.

Apparently Vince will have his very own speech on Wednesday at about 12.20.

Edited September 20, 2010 by billybong

[billybong]

Cleggie speaking now. The promises are spewing forth thick and fast