Being Represented By A Barrister

[Tonkers]

I have an employment tribunal hearing date all set and a barrister is being hired.

What do they do? Do they make all my arguments for me?

Been googling but any personal experience is always a plus!

I am also slowly unpicking a barrage of about 25 outright lies, with at least half of them quite easily disproved, the rest being more like hearsay (accusations about behaviour). No evidence has been provided by the other side. How many disproved lies would a judge counter before ignoring the rest?

[Bossybabe]

I have an employment tribunal hearing date all set and a barrister is being hired.

What do they do? Do they make all my arguments for me?

Been googling but any personal experience is always a plus!

I am also slowly unpicking a barrage of about 25 outright lies, with at least half of them quite easily disproved, the rest being more like hearsay (accusations about behaviour). No evidence has been provided by the other side. How many disproved lies would a judge counter before ignoring the rest?

You probably need a barrister because the other side [Employer?] has hired one. Yes, they will speak for you. You can, however, pass them notes during the proceedings if you see something you need to bring to their attention.

You can find out more about them here, if you haven't already looked it up.

[Tonkers]

You probably need a barrister because the other side [Employer?] has hired one. Yes, they will speak for you. You can, however, pass them notes during the proceedings if you see something you need to bring to their attention.

You can find out more about them here, if you haven't already looked it up.

Ah, useful, thank you. I have also found a great blog for aspiring barristers with lots of examples. Looks like it will be a hard couple of days!

[profitofdoom]

Ah, useful, thank you. I have also found a great blog for aspiring barristers with lots of examples. Looks like it will be a hard couple of days!

I had one representing me for a big inurance claim after a crash.It was great,pure theatre. We set up a kind of double act and it was huge fun to see the opposition lawyers faces as we batted away their evidence.These half wits had spent months following me with a video recorder to get evidence.The best bit was when my brief put in for £750 for a seat belt bruise. The judge, a Norfolk man,leant forward and looked at him over his bifocals "£750 for a bruise Mr.Roberts I can tell you are up from London"

[Gone baby gone]

Had a barrister once for a speeding offence. Worth every penny, got me off with a 1 week ban and £100 fine when I could have been facing 6 months off the road and somewhere closer to £1000.

[Kyoto]

Had a barrister once for a speeding offence. Worth every penny, got me off with a 1 week ban and £100 fine when I could have been facing 6 months off the road and somewhere closer to £1000.

But how much did the barrister cost?

[Tonkers]

I had one representing me for a big inurance claim after a crash.It was great,pure theatre. We set up a kind of double act and it was huge fun to see the opposition lawyers faces as we batted away their evidence.These half wits had spent months following me with a video recorder to get evidence.The best bit was when my brief put in for £750 for a seat belt bruise. The judge, a Norfolk man,leant forward and looked at him over his bifocals "£750 for a bruise Mr.Roberts I can tell you are up from London"

I am hoping it will be enjoyable in parts, rather than awful!

I dug up some new emails today, so that's another allegation gone. I actually can't imagine the MD or any of the staff withstanding examination. They will need to lie under oath, would they be so foolish?

Also, I was dismissed for gross misconduct in April, but it related to an accusation based in early March that he cooked up. Doesn't dismissal for gross misconduct indicate that you need an employee off the premises immediately, rather than waiting about for a month?

[Gone baby gone]

But how much did the barrister cost?

About £150 I seem to remember, including an initial half hour consultation. He drew attention to my clean license, the fact I was just starting a business and needed to be able to use a car, etc. in terms that would have made me blush if I'd had to do it myself. Plus the legal profession always like to see you putting some money their way (although this was just in front of a Magistrate).

[1929crash]

I am hoping it will be enjoyable in parts, rather than awful!

I dug up some new emails today, so that's another allegation gone. I actually can't imagine the MD or any of the staff withstanding examination. They will need to lie under oath, would they be so foolish?

Some people are that foolish

Also, I was dismissed for gross misconduct in April, but it related to an accusation based in early March that he cooked up. Doesn't dismissal for gross misconduct indicate that you need an employee off the premises immediately, rather than waiting about for a month?

Generally, yes. The delay certainly undermines their case. What was the alleged gross misconduct?

I have been having a few problems at work - bullying behaviour by management etc. Fortunately, they have started on other members of staff. My GP says she has noticed a marked increase in patients suffering stress caused by bullying in the past year, and the worst culprit is the NHS (which is not where I work.

Anyway, good luck!

[hilltop]

I take it that your Trade Union is paying for the Barrister. Well worth the subs.

A Barrister charges, for an Employment Tribunal, around £1,500 for taking the brief and £1,000 per day. They will not hurry because the Respondent's Barrister is earning on the same rate.

Although Employment Tribunals are supposed to enable people to bring a case without legal representation, this is now just a fiction.

Your employer's people will tell lies, if it meets their purpose.

Watch out for the Lay members of the Tribunal. They can be prejudiced and thick. If you think that an argument is not getting through to them, tell your lawyers.

Keep your nerve and good luck.

[Daft Boy]

About £150 I seem to remember, including an initial half hour consultation. He drew attention to my clean license, the fact I was just starting a business and needed to be able to use a car, etc. in terms that would have made me blush if I'd had to do it myself. Plus the legal profession always like to see you putting some money their way (although this was just in front of a Magistrate).

£150 sounds good value. A solicitor just cost me £2400 to defend a simple but false and malicious accusation without a thread of evidence against me. I was found not guilty so justice prevailed but feel I could have done a better job myself for nothing.

[Kurt Barlow]

I take it that your Trade Union is paying for the Barrister. Well worth the subs.

A Barrister charges, for an Employment Tribunal, around £1,500 for taking the brief and £1,000 per day. They will not hurry because the Respondent's Barrister is earning on the same rate.

Although Employment Tribunals are supposed to enable people to bring a case without legal representation, this is now just a fiction.

Your employer's people will tell lies, if it meets their purpose.

Watch out for the Lay members of the Tribunal. They can be prejudiced and thick. If you think that an argument is not getting through to them, tell your lawyers.

Keep your nerve and good luck.

Unfortunately the lawyers have taken over the tribunal however unlike the Courts the trinubal judge does have a duty to balance the proceedings so therefore will coax self representing applicants.

Self representation / lay representation is possible if you have some comparative experience that you can use. My background is I was a Local Authority EHO for 17 years so have a lot of Court Experience. I had also been to the Tribunal several times before as they hear appeals against Health and Safety Improvement / Prohibition Notices.

I took on a local authority that made me redundant in 2008. I also represented an admin assistant whose dismissal was blatantly unfair. We went through all the internal appeals pantomines - which were just kangaroo courts.

Anyway to cut to the chase - 4 day hearing last September. The Council employed this twonk;

http://www.oldsquare.co.uk/barristers/1/?c=20034

half their legal and HR team.

In both cases we won. My award of unfair dismissal was symbolic as I had walked straight into a better paid private sector job (and trousered my redundancy). However the best bit was the old girl i represented won £23,000

At the end of the day a case is one or lost on the facts - get them right and you have a good chance of winning no matter what the employer throws at the case. Also bosses are notoriously bad in the witness box / under cross examination on a level playing field - often they are your best weapon in the tribunal.

For a laugh my dad did a Freedom of Information request on the CEO of the Council. They spent £23000 on the Barrister and £22000 internal legal costs

[Kurt Barlow]

I take it that your Trade Union is paying for the Barrister. Well worth the subs. A Barrister charges, for an Employment Tribunal, around £1,500 for taking the brief and £1,000 per day. They will not hurry because the Respondent's Barrister is earning on the same rate.

Although Employment Tribunals are supposed to enable people to bring a case without legal representation, this is now just a fiction.

Your employer's people will tell lies, if it meets their purpose.

Watch out for the Lay members of the Tribunal. They can be prejudiced and thick. If you think that an argument is not getting through to them, tell your lawyers.

Keep your nerve and good luck.

A good point as even if you win the EA is unlikely to award costs against the employer.

[Tonkers]

I learned a lot today.

My Barrister should not go above £2K for the whole thing - scary stuff and cleaning me out. But this is about the malicious attempted destruction of my career, and not a small work dispute. I really had no choice.

I am accused of the easy stuff, being drunk, rude, and aggressive in the office. Hard to prove, hard to disprove, except I have managed to disprove almost of all of it, and should have it all knocked into touch by the end of the day tomorrow. The drunk has been sorted (God, who would be drunk in an office? Ugh!) the rude and aggressive is intangible, but I have hundreds of emails gone through and pertinent ones used. They have all their dates wrong, and it is lining up the dominoes in the right order.

Witnesses is the worst, you just don't want to drag people in to it all. But I have also been left with nothing to lose, so they have no leverage on me. The written examples of the slander they have been engaged in after the firing have also hurt them badly, you find out who your friends are!

The amount of work and upset involved is huge, I am now writing my own case up (using a great barrister blog I found) so I can make sure that things are run well. I can learn on the job (and get value from the experience). I do think I will be able to represent myself in the future (or it drags on for much longer) and this would is a good skill in any event. What I have been most cheered by is the element of performance and unfolding a narrative that is easily understood, I thought the process would be a lot drier.

Keeping my nerve on the day is the one!

One thing has been quite crucial, I started recording meetings this year and if there are issues at work consider it. To have a voice recording of your accuser blowing his own lies apart is very satisfying.

[6538]

I have an employment tribunal hearing date all set and a barrister is being hired.

What do they do? Do they make all my arguments for me?

Been googling but any personal experience is always a plus!

I am also slowly unpicking a barrage of about 25 outright lies, with at least half of them quite easily disproved, the rest being more like hearsay (accusations about behaviour). No evidence has been provided by the other side. How many disproved lies would a judge counter before ignoring the rest?

What a coincidence!

Haven't been on much in the past few days and only rocked up to post something about an employment thing I'm currently involved with but thought better of it until it's done. Suffice as to say though that it's one of the most exciting things I've done in a good while - honestly, I'm half execting a "The truth...you can't handle the truth" monent in the next few days.

[Tonkers]

What a coincidence!

Haven't been on much in the past few days and only rocked up to post something about an employment thing I'm currently involved with but thought better of it until it's done. Suffice as to say though that it's one of the most exciting things I've done in a good while - honestly, I'm half execting a "The truth...you can't handle the truth" monent in the next few days.

I am going to go see a few tribunals to get an idea of how it all works. My Respondent will be a bit of a show when the time comes.

[6538]

I am going to go see a few tribunals to get an idea of how it all works. My Respondent will be a bit of a show when the time comes.

I'm not sure that employment tribunals are public.

[Kurt Barlow]

I'm not sure that employment tribunals are public.

They are held in public

[Kurt Barlow]

I am going to go see a few tribunals to get an idea of how it all works. My Respondent will be a bit of a show when the time comes.

I did this and it was really useful. As I said before I had been to the EA on health and safety cases but not for an UD hearing.

[Bossybabe]

I am hoping it will be enjoyable in parts, rather than awful!

I dug up some new emails today, so that's another allegation gone. I actually can't imagine the MD or any of the staff withstanding examination. They will need to lie under oath, would they be so foolish?

Also, I was dismissed for gross misconduct in April, but it related to an accusation based in early March that he cooked up. Doesn't dismissal for gross misconduct indicate that you need an employee off the premises immediately, rather than waiting about for a month?

Don't be surprised if they lie through their teeth under oath. I did a complex case once in London, where two eminent Consultant surgeons both lied under oath. The amusing fact was that it was obvious to everyone that one of them at least had to be lying. I'd never seen two surgeons look so worried and unsure of themselves, and enjoyed it hugely!

Also, see Daft Boy's topic here.

[Tiger Woods?]

I am hoping it will be enjoyable in parts, rather than awful!

I dug up some new emails today, so that's another allegation gone. I actually can't imagine the MD or any of the staff withstanding examination. They will need to lie under oath, would they be so foolish?

Yes they would!

My car was hit by a bus once. It was a lesson. I was flabbergasted in the court case by the other side. The lies came thick and fast. They even wheeled out a fake witness and covered up the existence of another: the driver in a second bus at the scene was Afro-Carribean, the driver who turned up in court was an avuncular (but mendacious) Santa Claus. I know I am a little short sighted, and was in a bit of shock at the time, but it is not the kind of mistake one makes!

They also either lied to my insurers about the existence of a CCTV tape showing the accident or lied to the court that no such tape existed. What's worse the lies had some effect as the magistrate concluded that I had hit their bus, even though I had photographs taken at the scene of a bus shaped indent in the side of my car! The other side's barrister's jaw dropped, as she had not been informed of the existence of these photographs (though they had been in the hands of my insurers since day one.). What was impressive was how quickly she recovered and pulled out an engineers report, which concluded that I had somehow managed to hit their bus with the back of my car. Apparently "fake" (for it could be nothing else) engineer's reports hold more water than photographs of a car with its passenger side door and frame neatly smashed into oblivion.

To this day I still cannot believe what they got away with, and how many people were willing to tell outright lies. I cannot believe that the magistrate believed them (he was pompous and thick i.m.h.o.), as they were internally inconsistent and certainly inconsistent with photographs taken at the scene of the accident. I was such a wide eyed innocent until that day. (The completely hopeless legal representation provided for me by my insurer didn't help either.)

I suspect you will find that there will be former colleagues who perjure themselves, for if they don't they will be next in line. Do not go into this case complacently.

[porca misèria]

I have an employment tribunal hearing date all set and a barrister is being hired.

What do they do? Do they make all my arguments for me?

Been googling but any personal experience is always a plus!

I am also slowly unpicking a barrage of about 25 outright lies, with at least half of them quite easily disproved, the rest being more like hearsay (accusations about behaviour). No evidence has been provided by the other side. How many disproved lies would a judge counter before ignoring the rest?

A barrister's purpose in life is to spin a story. The justice (or otherwise) of your case and the truth (or otherwise) of your story are at best incidental. Don't get too fixated on the facts of the case, because if they get in the way of the narrative they'll only muddy the waters and could screw up the whole case. And bear in mind that a witness who is pedantic about the truth can be as hopeless as the most blatent and obvious liar.

Think about how that highly accomplished barrister The Liar won three general elections, and even when he was telling outright lies was able to convince the chattering classes that he at least believed what he was saying. If you get a barrister that good you've got the case sewn up. But then, same applies to the other side.

[Bossybabe]

A barrister's purpose in life is to spin a story. The justice (or otherwise) of your case and the truth (or otherwise) of your story are at best incidental. Don't get too fixated on the facts of the case, because if they get in the way of the narrative they'll only muddy the waters and could screw up the whole case. And bear in mind that a witness who is pedantic about the truth can be as hopeless as the most blatent and obvious liar.

Think about how that highly accomplished barrister The Liar won three general elections, and even when he was telling outright lies was able to convince the chattering classes that he at least believed what he was saying. If you get a barrister that good you've got the case sewn up. But then, same applies to the other side.

In fact, the first casualties of the court system are justice and truth.

[profitofdoom]

Had a barrister once for a speeding offence. Worth every penny, got me off with a 1 week ban and £100 fine when I could have been facing 6 months off the road and somewhere closer to £1000.

I represented myself at a speed camera offence.The CPS prosecutor waved a photograph of me (allegedly) taken through the rear window of the car. This took place in of the the PUBLIC WAITING ROOM of the court in front of various oiks waiting to explain their misdeeds. This was clearly grandsrtanding to try and crack my resolve.

When he showed it in court I argued that it could equaly be a picture of either of the two gentlemen on the bench.I also said that the passenger had blonde hair whereas my wife had dark.I omitted to say that I had not lived with my wife for ten years and my partner was blonde.Anyway case dismissed and expenses against the police. Lovely jubbly! Don't be overawed by the court,they are only the same kind of tosspots and wasters as we are.

[Tiger Woods?]

I represented myself at a speed camera offence.The CPS prosecutor waved a photograph of me (allegedly) taken through the rear window of the car. This took place in of the the PUBLIC WAITING ROOM of the court in front of various oiks waiting to explain their misdeeds. This was clearly grandsrtanding to try and crack my resolve.

When he showed it in court I argued that it could equaly be a picture of either of the two gentlemen on the bench.I also said that the passenger had blonde hair whereas my wife had dark.I omitted to say that I had not lived with my wife for ten years and my partner was blonde.Anyway case dismissed and expenses against the police. Lovely jubbly! Don't be overawed by the court,they are only the same kind of tosspots and wasters as we are.

That takes chutzpah!