Sneaky Estate Agents!

[Pent Up]

we have been making offers on a property with an asking price of 165000. I originally offered 145000 after finding put it's been on the market for 3 years with no offers! This was rejected so a few days later tried 150000 which Also was rejected. The EA informed me that the vendor would only accept something near the 160000 mark and that recently there had even been an offer of 155000 rejected which was apparently made through another agent. I told him thanks for trying but we can't afford anything near 160000.

The property is on the market with 3 agents. Agent 1 which I am dealing with. I phoned agent 2 today to ask "a few questions before deciding on a viewing" and no offers there. So I tried agent 3 who said there has been an offer through another agent which was rejected (obviously mine!) so the agent I am dealing with is creating phantom offers to make me go higher.

Has anyone else experienced anything similar or am I just reading to much into what's being said?

[cool_hand]

Doesn't surprise me. You should ask him if he can substantiate his claim.

[fallingbuzzard]

The other way of creating a phantom offer is to move a house from say £240,000 to OIEO £220,000 thereby creating the impression of an offer at £220,000.

Whether there is a phantom offer or not, the bottom line is how much the seller wants, how much you are prepared to pay, and who is more deperate, the seller or buyer. The agent works for the seller so they'll always try and make you more under pressure and desperate before they'll do that to a seller. After all, making the buyer desperate and getting what the seller wants is their job.

Edited February 23, 2010 by fallingbuzzard

[Pent Up]

thanks. I think we'll wait a few weeks to see how desperate he is. Hopefully they will call back when they see we have walked away. If not then it's back to searching and praying for the crash!

[fallingbuzzard]

that really is the only way. when the agent can't squeeze you and can't find other potential buyers they have to try and start squeezing the seller, but even that doesn't always work.

thanks. I think we'll wait a few weeks to see how desperate he is. Hopefully they will call back when they see we have walked away. If not then it's back to searching and praying for the crash!

[bug09]

You could call around at the house and ask!

In the case of not being sure if the EA has passed on a low offer, or indeed if a vendor is open to very low offers, we've knocked on the door. It's quite nerve-racking, I must say, but if you need to get an important answer sometimes you have to do these things.

I'm not sure yet what line you could use on the doorstep to find out about other offers without just coming across as self-serving and short-cutting the EA for your own gain. However, if the prospect of knocking on the door doesn't freak you out I'll try and think of some way (can't guarentee anything though!).

[Pent Up]

I did actually walk past the house in Sunday just checking out the area and it did cross my mind to speak to him face to face but he wasn't in anyway (well I assume not no car/ no lights on). Also when the estate agent mentioned the phantom offer he said the vendor told him

he a recieved it from another agent. Don't know whether or not that is true but I do feel like the vendor is quite happy to just sit and wait. He hasn't found anywhere to move to yet.

[Muskoka]

Why don't you send a friend in to view/show interest, etc. See what else you can find out without showing too much interest yourself?

[Pent Up]

I dont really know what extra that would tell me?

Also I don't want to create a false impression of increased interest in the vendors and agents minds incase it gives them

more reason to hold out for a higher price.

It's like playing poker! I think the best thing for now is just wait and see.

[Lock and load]

Walk away from this house if the owner has had it on the market for 3 years they are either

1) Stupid

2) mad

3) arrogant

4) a twit

it may be on the market for a "fake" sale ie he/she owes cash in a divorce or something,so he has to advertise it or he is on benefit where you have to show you are selling a 2nd home so you put it up for silly money or dont budge on price etc etc,something is fishy here,call the EA's and tell them they are idiots for entertaining a seller with no intention of selling and forget it

[Pent Up]

Walk away from this house if the owner has had it on the market for 3 years they are either

1) Stupid

2) mad

3) arrogant

4) a twit

it may be on the market for a "fake" sale ie he/she owes cash in a divorce or something,so he has to advertise it or he is on benefit where you have to show you are selling a 2nd home so you put it up for silly money or dont budge on price etc etc,something is fishy here,call the EA's and tell them they are idiots for entertaining a seller with no intention of selling and forget it

He is single and has lived on his own there since 1999 and has a full time job. Whether he has debts I don't know.

Only market for this house is young couples and ftb it's small but in a lovely location. It's one bedroom. I think the reasons for it not selling are:

1, ftbs and young couples have been priced out if the market for the last 3years.

2, his asking prices have been too high. Started at 225000 in 2007 and has steadily come down but lagging behind the market.

3, possibly he is not bothered about selling and is quite happy to sit on it and wait for the asking price. Although ours is the first and only offer.

Oh and 4, the EA is a twit I know that for sure!

We will wait and see at the moment looks like we will be walking away.

[wild card]

Why not get a friend to view and suss the sellers situation. When your friend puts in an offer of say £120000 - the sellers perspective of your offer will be altered. Yours will appear high in comparison?

Play the EA's at their own game.

[Alfie Moon]

Write down notes of your interactions with the Estate Agent and date them + do some e-mail communication with the EA and draw them into repeating the existence of this 'other' offer - to help generate written evidence. Also do this with the other EA's this property is with and again, get in e-mail communication with them to get them to state that there are no existing offers on this property. Then contact the Property Ombudsman and Office for Fair Trading to report this Estate Agent.

See the Property Ombudsman's website for the EA Code of Practice for Sales which states the following:

see: http://www.tpos.co.uk/make_complaint_sales.htm

Discrimination

6c By law you must not discriminate, or threaten to discriminate, against a prospective buyer of the sellers property because

that person declines to accept that you will (directly or indirectly) provide services to them. Discrimination includes but

is not limited to the following:

Failing to tell the seller of an offer to buy the property.

Telling the seller of an offer less quickly than other offers you have received.

Misrepresenting the nature of the offer or that of rival offers.

Giving details of properties for sale first to those who have indicated they are prepared to let you provide services to

them.

Making it a condition that the person wanting to buy the property must use any other service provided by you or

anyone else.

Continuation of Marketing

6d When an offer has been accepted subject to contract (in Scotland, conclusion of missives) you must consult and take the

sellers instructions as to whether the property should be withdrawn from the market, or continue to be marketed. In the

latter case, you must so advise the prospective buyer in writing. The prospective buyer must also be informed in writing

should the seller later decide to put the property back on the market.

You remain under the legal obligation to pass on offers, as defined in 6a above.

In England, Wales and Northern Ireland

6e You must do everything you reasonably can to keep all prospective buyers who have recently made offers through you,

and which have not already been rejected, informed of the existence of other offers submitted to the seller.

6f Your negotiations must neither unfairly advantage nor disadvantage any prospective buyers. You must be fair and not

misleading in disclosing the amount of any offers made to other prospective buyers. Before deciding to disclose the

amount of an offer, you must advise the seller of such intention and get his agreement; and you must warn all prospective

buyers who make offers that it is your practice to do so. If you do disclose any offer to one prospective buyer, then all

offers must be immediately disclosed to all prospective buyers with a current interest in negotiations for the property.

6g After an offer has been accepted, you must promptly tell that prospective buyer if the seller accepts another offer.

6h By law you must not misrepresent or invent the existence, or any details, of any other offer made or the status of

any other person who has made an offer. If you know that the seller has instructed a solicitor to send a contract to an

alternative buyer, you must then tell your prospective buyer in writing.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Alfie Moon

[bug09]

it may be on the market for a "fake" sale ie he/she owes cash in a divorce or something,so he has to advertise it

I think you could be right here. He may be single now, but that doesn't preclude a joint purchase going sour when the relationship ends.

OP: have you ascertained why this house is on the market?

Why not get a friend to view and suss the sellers situation. When your friend puts in an offer of say £120000 - the sellers perspective of your offer will be altered. Yours will appear high in comparison?

Play the EA's at their own game.

Ha ha - I like it !

[Pent Up]

Thanks Alfie Moon thats very interesting. If I have dealings with them regarding this property again (i.e. if they call me back) ill certainly try and get some evidence although that would justify his careful wording when he mentioned it : "the owner has informed me that he has recieved an offer via another agent" He could be clever and covering himself there?

Bug, he is selling because "he wants somewhere bigger" Could be true about divorce.

[pablopatito]

Why do you care what the EA is telling you? You think its worth £150k and have offered accordingly, the vendor wants £160k. That's the end of it. Whether or not someone else has made an offer is irrelevant to your valuation.

I had a similar experience when I offered £200k for a house and said that was my final offer. The EA phoned back an hour later and said someone had offered £205k and what did I want to do? I just said my final offer is my final offer. I don't care what other people are doing. The house is still on the market.

My advice is to not get suckered into any games that estate agents love to play. And don't try and play games with them, as they have more experience and will probably win. Say as little as possible. Make your offer. And then increase it or walk away. Don't let an estate agent's fairy tales effect your decision making.

[Propertybuyersnetwork]

When ever you put an offer in with an agent you should always do tit in writing.

It's all well and good saying that they have rules to follow, but most EA are out for themselves.

If you still have no joy,no harm in popping a letter in the letter box directly to the owner.

Stating you've already made an offer to the agent and wanted to know if your offer has been accepted or not.

By putting your offer in writting, it makes you look far more professional and also shows the agent that you know what your doing.

Also show the agent the offer letter from the mortgage company if you should have one. Again this will prove to the agent that your not a time waster and can move quickly.

[Dangerfield]

Reading these points makes me think that we may be in a similar situation.

We looked at a property that had been on the market for 6 months and the EA said no offers had previously been made. Three weeks ago we put in an early offer at a low price, that was rejected (expected). Then last week later, after a further viewing, we put in a much higher and more sensible offer,within 10% of asking price. That was rejected within an hour. The same day, and within an hour offerred a slightly higher price and made it clear it was our final offer as we were in a good position to move quickly. There was no comeback until the following day when the estate agent said the vendor was away but had spoken to his wife and we would be advised as soon as they had feedback on our offer. A phone call today suggested a higher offer (from someone who viewed the property some time ago) has been placed and contact made with the vendor, even though the vendor is still away. The question from the EA was did we wish to put in a higher offer. Should we smell a rat?

[Rozza]

Reading these points makes me think that we may be in a similar situation.

We looked at a property that had been on the market for 6 months and the EA said no offers had previously been made. Three weeks ago we put in an early offer at a low price, that was rejected (expected). Then last week later, after a further viewing, we put in a much higher and more sensible offer,within 10% of asking price. That was rejected within an hour. The same day, and within an hour offerred a slightly higher price and made it clear it was our final offer as we were in a good position to move quickly. There was no comeback until the following day when the estate agent said the vendor was away but had spoken to his wife and we would be advised as soon as they had feedback on our offer. A phone call today suggested a higher offer (from someone who viewed the property some time ago) has been placed and contact made with the vendor, even though the vendor is still away. The question from the EA was did we wish to put in a higher offer. Should we smell a rat?

Yes definately.

In fact if its been on for 6 months i would go back to your original offer as that was probably the sensible offer.

The within 10% of asking price probably means you will pay too much for the place, obviously i say this assuming its a typical sale where the house is massively overvalued by the vendor and the EA hence why its been up for 6 months

[Pent Up]

Reading these points makes me think that we may be in a similar situation.

We looked at a property that had been on the market for 6 months and the EA said no offers had previously been made. Three weeks ago we put in an early offer at a low price, that was rejected (expected). Then last week later, after a further viewing, we put in a much higher and more sensible offer,within 10% of asking price. That was rejected within an hour. The same day, and within an hour offerred a slightly higher price and made it clear it was our final offer as we were in a good position to move quickly. There was no comeback until the following day when the estate agent said the vendor was away but had spoken to his wife and we would be advised as soon as they had feedback on our offer. A phone call today suggested a higher offer (from someone who viewed the property some time ago) has been placed and contact made with the vendor, even though the vendor is still away. The question from the EA was did we wish to put in a higher offer. Should we smell a rat?

I would tell the agent that your not prepared to pay any more, thank him for his time and end it there. If he calls back in a few days you will know he was talking b0llocks. If its still on the market in another month or so maybe try your offer again, albeit lower.

To update on how my situation from Feb turned out, we left it and after about a month the property was removed from sale with the agent I put my offer in with. It's still for sale with the other two agents. I assume the reason for this is the first agent, which was the one who had been marketting this house for longest, got tired of wasting time taking calls and viewings on a property he knew was over priced and would not sell.

I am now hugely relieved that our offer was rejected as at the time I had given up hope of house prices dropping any time soon but since then there has been torrents of evidence coming out that prices will drop soon. I'll be waiting untill the end of this year at least.

If the house is still on the market by then ill go with a nice low offer depending on the market, no where near my first offers.

Interestling the zoopla valuation has dropped by £4K since feb

[Lagarde's Drift]

Reading these points makes me think that we may be in a similar situation.

We looked at a property that had been on the market for 6 months and the EA said no offers had previously been made. Three weeks ago we put in an early offer at a low price, that was rejected (expected). Then last week later, after a further viewing, we put in a much higher and more sensible offer,within 10% of asking price. That was rejected within an hour. The same day, and within an hour offerred a slightly higher price and made it clear it was our final offer as we were in a good position to move quickly. There was no comeback until the following day when the estate agent said the vendor was away but had spoken to his wife and we would be advised as soon as they had feedback on our offer. A phone call today suggested a higher offer (from someone who viewed the property some time ago) has been placed and contact made with the vendor, even though the vendor is still away. The question from the EA was did we wish to put in a higher offer. Should we smell a rat?

I'm sorry, but if this was bidding for an asset that was anything other than property - would you smell a rat?

[Dangerfield]

Turns out there were no rats.

Played waiting game then told that property had sold to other bidder. Put in a higher offer and other bidder matched it. Offered to pay for fixtures and fittings, but other bidder matched again. Vendor decided to go with other bidder to push sale through quickly.

Moral of the tale. Trust the estate agent and if you want the property and there is another bidder, put in your highest offer as far as you are ever able to go - otherwise you will be disappointed like we are!

[Rozza]

Turns out there were no rats.

Played waiting game then told that property had sold to other bidder. Put in a higher offer and other bidder matched it. Offered to pay for fixtures and fittings, but other bidder matched again. Vendor decided to go with other bidder to push sale through quickly.

Moral of the tale. Trust the estate agent and if you want the property and there is another bidder, put in your highest offer as far as you are ever able to go - otherwise you will be disappointed like we are!

Sorry to hear that, but the moral is not trust the estate agent, it is decide what the property is worth and bid that much.

Do not let this make you up your bids on other properties you like "just in case", dont forget the agent is the paid representative of the seller so their only job is to get top price out of you.

And also dont be surprised to get a call back in 4-6 weeks when the other buyer couldnt proceed.. you never know it could happen (fingers crossed for you)

[Mal Volio]

Turns out there were no rats.

Played waiting game then told that property had sold to other bidder. Put in a higher offer and other bidder matched it. Offered to pay for fixtures and fittings, but other bidder matched again. Vendor decided to go with other bidder to push sale through quickly.

Moral of the tale. Trust the estate agent and if you want the property and there is another bidder, put in your highest offer as far as you are ever able to go - otherwise you will be disappointed like we are!

Moral of tale: don't get caught up in bidding wars. All you've done is forced the person who bought the place to pay a bit more than they would have done otherwise. You've gained nothing. The winners are the seller and the EA. They must love you.

as Rozza said:

decide what the property is worth and bid that much.

[bug09]

you will be disappointed like we are

You will feel dissappointed right now for sure, gutted even. But it will become apparent that there are other properties that equally suit you.

We've been through this - seen properties come and go, that we've really liked. But we've been resolute on not getting in a bidding war. It's tough at the time, but the strategy does eventually pay off.