He Bought Dinner. I Was Bored. He'll Do The Chores. The Unromantic Truth About Why Women Sleep With Men

[DrTara Shrink4Men]

Very true. Narcissism is at the heart of right wing politics too IMO.

Back to the female of the species - my wife's best friend is a female chauvinist. Different to feminists, female chauvinists belittle men and see them as stupid, lazy oafs. A few weeks ago we were camping with her and her family at a little music festival, sharing a cooking gazebo and eating area. At some point I found a rug belonging to them lying on the wet grass so I picked it up and started to brush off the grass cuttings. She turned and saw me and immediately assumed I'd dropped the thing onto the ground and came out with a sarcastic "Oh well done...men!". I told her she shouldn't chastise so quickly, or jump to conclusions for that matter. A small incident, but quite commonplace with her. I feel for her husband, I really do.

Once upon a time, women were treated like second class citizens and there was a valid need for feminism. I understood the original principles of feminism to be that women are equal to men and deserving of equal opportunities, rights, status,etc.; not superior to men.

Men have been devalued by women and pop psychology for the last 40+ years. The pendulum has swung to the other extreme in that women, who were once oppressed, have become the oppressors. Equality of the sexes can’t be legitimately achieved by denigrating one group in favor of the other. Additionally, gender equity is a far more realistic goal than equality, which occurs when we allow for differences in each other.

Your friend's wife's position that all men are stupid, lazy oafs is no better than men from times past (or today) who believe(d) that a woman's place was in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. Both stances are equally ignorant, discriminatory and abusive. It's foolish, sad, and destructive and I have neither patience nor tolerance for it.

Just my 2 "pence."

[DrTara Shrink4Men]

There must be loads of female chavinists in advertising then. It's incredible how many make men out to be dimwitted buffoons.

I've noticed this in US television and adverts, too. It's insidious in that it's made it slowly acceptable to portray men as clueless, hairy apes and women as enlightened, all-knowing beings. If a specific race were portrayed the way men are depicted in adverts, sitcoms, media, etc., corresponding racial anti-defamation leagues would be up in arms.

Alternately, on reality programs in the US, female contestants act out, throw fits and in general behave like dim witted, entitled infants and they become minor celebrities. In other words, they're rewarded for this behavior. Slowly, these messages seep into one's psyche, become part of one's belief system and make what should be unacceptable behavior, acceptable. Not good.

[Frank Hovis]

I've noticed this in US television and adverts, too. It's insidious in that it's made it slowly acceptable to portray men as clueless, hairy apes and women as enlightened, all-knowing beings. If a specific race were portrayed the way men are depicted in adverts, sitcoms, media, etc., corresponding racial anti-defamation leagues would be up in arms.

Alternately, on reality programs in the US, female contestants act out, throw fits and in general behave like dim witted, entitled infants and they become minor celebrities. In other words, they're rewarded for this behavior. Slowly, these messages seep into one's psyche, become part of one's belief system and make what should be unacceptable behavior, acceptable. Not good.

In England as well. This woman was just dreadful.

Just watching the youtube clips. Nightmare.

"It's not fair!!"

[Moley]

In England as well. This woman was just dreadful.

Just watching the youtube clips. Nightmare.

"It's not fair!!"

Good God! I think this woman is mentally ill.

[DrTara Shrink4Men]

Good God! I think this woman is mentally ill.

Talk about nails on a chalkboard. I was cringing and flinching. If only all women with these issues were this over the top and easy to spot...

[thecrashingisles]

In England as well. This woman was just dreadful.

She was the only entertaining person I've ever seen on Big Brother. The problem was that she wasn't putting on an act...

[The Masked Tulip]

Just my 2 "pence."

Or, as we say in English, "tuppence"

[The Masked Tulip]

Very true. Narcissism is at the heart of right wing politics too IMO.

Back to the female of the species - my wife's best friend is a female chauvinist. Different to feminists, female chauvinists belittle men and see them as stupid, lazy oafs. A few weeks ago we were camping with her and her family at a little music festival, sharing a cooking gazebo and eating area. At some point I found a rug belonging to them lying on the wet grass so I picked it up and started to brush off the grass cuttings. She turned and saw me and immediately assumed I'd dropped the thing onto the ground and came out with a sarcastic "Oh well done...men!". I told her she shouldn't chastise so quickly, or jump to conclusions for that matter. A small incident, but quite commonplace with her. I feel for her husband, I really do.

I think you need to get him to sit down and read through a few articles over on shrink4men

[DrTara Shrink4Men]

Or, as we say in English, "tuppence"

Still working on my English English...

[DrTara Shrink4Men]

I think you need to get him to sit down and read through a few articles over on shrink4men

You're making me blush, Masked Tulip.

If I ever have a product to sell, will you be my head of marketing?

[The Masked Tulip]

You're making me blush, Masked Tulip.

If I ever have a product to sell, will you be my head of marketing?

For the usual 15%, a comfy chair, a lemon-coloured ice cream maker and... OK, I'll stop there

[General Melchett]

BB just nicked the diary room idea off Dan O'Bannen and Richard Caprenter anyway.

30+ years older and infinitely funnier:

[R K]

Nicely done! "My head's in a bad place" is either an admission of mental instability, emotional unavailability or both.

The text msg is probably a fishing expedition. You're supposed to take the bait and say, "You're a lovely woman! Of course I want that!" She seems to be already setting the stage for you to mollify deep wells of emotional neediness. Or, I'm reading too much into it. My suggestion: Don't respond and see if she begins to bombard you with texts/emails/voicemails in which case, you'll have nutter confirmation. Ding! Ding! Ding!

Yes very much so. I then got the 'fishing expedition' including trying to find out if I liked her emotionally, telling me all about her stress at work and need for cuddles and talking rather than just a physical relationship, (the deep wells of emotional neediness) and trying to find out if I had seen anyone else since our date (I didn't reply to that one). She finished off with a "I know you're not interested in that so it won't work out, BYE xx" text - which I ignored entirely.

I can tell you that every woman I have dated since I divorced (from late twenties to late forties) goes through all this sh1t either early on or eventually to one degree or another. I'm still a little puzzled why you hold the opinion it is just some women who are like this. The game playing, manipulation, seeking emotional confirmation, attempting to gain control, using sex as a reward, wanting to know what you think of them, planning ahead (fitting you into her family scenarios) and so on.......In my experience (double figures) this is how woman are.........Perhaps I've just had the misfortune to hit on a dozen or so women in a couple of years who are all like that - but they don't look like particularly good odds for the 'normal' sorted, non-needy, non-neurotic, not on anti-depressants, non-judgemental female.

It's not MEN you should be aiming your website at you know - It's WOMEN.

[The Masked Tulip]

BB just nicked the diary room idea off Dan O'Bannen and Richard Caprenter anyway.

30+ years older and infinitely funnier:

Did you read about that chap in Turkey who had a dozen women in his house for a couple of months believing that they were on some kind of Big Brother reality show.

[The Masked Tulip]

BB just nicked the diary room idea off Dan O'Bannen and Richard Caprenter anyway.

30+ years older and infinitely funnier:

Did you read about that chap in Turkey who had a dozen women in his house for a couple of months believing that they were on some kind of Big Brother reality show.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...eave-house.html

[General Melchett]

Did you read about that chap in Turkey who had a dozen women in his house for a couple of months believing that they were on some kind of Big Brother reality show.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...eave-house.html

I saw it on news24. Strange story. Look beyond the whole 'how could they be such suckers?' thing and ask yourself 'how did the people who organised it think they would get away with it long term?' Then you start getting into very disturbing thoughts: They were either very stupid or were planning to be very ruthless.

[Moley]

I can tell you that every woman I have dated since I divorced (from late twenties to late forties) goes through all this sh1t either early on or eventually to one degree or another. I'm still a little puzzled why you hold the opinion it is just some women who are like this. The game playing, manipulation, seeking emotional confirmation, attempting to gain control, using sex as a reward, wanting to know what you think of them, planning ahead (fitting you into her family scenarios) and so on.......In my experience (double figures) this is how woman are.........Perhaps I've just had the misfortune to hit on a dozen or so women in a couple of years who are all like that - but they don't look like particularly good odds for the 'normal' sorted, non-needy, non-neurotic, not on anti-depressants, non-judgemental female.

I think you have had the horrible misfortune to only meet women who are exactly like my Mother (with the added bonus of hypochondria and religious mania).

[DrTara Shrink4Men]

BB just nicked the diary room idea off Dan O'Bannen and Richard Caprenter anyway.

30+ years older and infinitely funnier:

I liked this video much better than the screechy blond in the gold lamé bikini.

[Cygnus Alpha]

Hi Tara,

Interesting stuff. However, I can honestly say that most of the women I meet seem to be, well, at least as sane as I am (there's setting the bar low). A few are obviously completely barking, probably a higher proportion of them than the blokes I meet, but not most of them. Maybe I just mix with the sane sort, or maybe, and this, if true, is more worrying, they only start revealing themselves once you pass a certain point in a relationship, a point well beyond casual friend/acquaintance/colleague?

Oh give over. The crack whores you pull want to reveal everything within the first hour. It's just your impotence that's holding you back.

Now man up you queer.

[Cogs]

Yes very much so. I then got the 'fishing expedition' including trying to find out if I liked her emotionally, telling me all about her stress at work and need for cuddles and talking rather than just a physical relationship, (the deep wells of emotional neediness) and trying to find out if I had seen anyone else since our date (I didn't reply to that one). She finished off with a "I know you're not interested in that so it won't work out, BYE xx" text - which I ignored entirely.

I can tell you that every woman I have dated since I divorced (from late twenties to late forties) goes through all this sh1t either early on or eventually to one degree or another. I'm still a little puzzled why you hold the opinion it is just some women who are like this. The game playing, manipulation, seeking emotional confirmation, attempting to gain control, using sex as a reward, wanting to know what you think of them, planning ahead (fitting you into her family scenarios) and so on.......In my experience (double figures) this is how woman are.........Perhaps I've just had the misfortune to hit on a dozen or so women in a couple of years who are all like that - but they don't look like particularly good odds for the 'normal' sorted, non-needy, non-neurotic, not on anti-depressants, non-judgemental female.

It's not MEN you should be aiming your website at you know - It's WOMEN.

http://www.ericberne.com/

People play games because they often work. Its a bit like finance in a way, the problem is what works in the short-term and get me my fix of whatever today may not have been the wisest thing in the medium or long term.

I don't get into games with women either these days to the point of occasionally being a little intolerant. Lately I've actually been wondering if it might be wiser to relent a bit. Dunno. Wish I did.

[DrTara Shrink4Men]

I can tell you that every woman I have dated since I divorced (from late twenties to late forties) goes through all this sh1t either early on or eventually to one degree or another. I'm still a little puzzled why you hold the opinion it is just some women who are like this. The game playing, manipulation, seeking emotional confirmation, attempting to gain control, using sex as a reward, wanting to know what you think of them, planning ahead (fitting you into her family scenarios) and so on.......In my experience (double figures) this is how woman are.........Perhaps I've just had the misfortune to hit on a dozen or so women in a couple of years who are all like that - but they don't look like particularly good odds for the 'normal' sorted, non-needy, non-neurotic, not on anti-depressants, non-judgemental female.

It's not MEN you should be aiming your website at you know - It's WOMEN.

I agree with you that the kind of women you've been dating have problems and need help, however, first they need to admit they have problems before anyone, including me, can help them. A lot of these women typically blame everyone but themselves for their unhappiness. What I try to do is help men understand that these behaviors aren't normal and they don't have to tolerate, accept or resign themselves to this kind of woman and relationship.

When I was dating a few years back, I seemed to only meet emotionally unavailable, ambivalent men. After much frustration, I took an 18-month dating hiatus. In that time, I realized that I was also ambivalent about making myself totally vulnerable to another person. Because I wasn't ready, I chose guys who, for whatever reason, weren't ready either. I was only available to emotionally unavailable men and totally unavailable to men who were ready and able to have an intimate relationship--circular reasoning, I know.

After this "insight," I became very clear about what I wanted in life and a relationship. I gave men whom, in the past, I typically would have dismissed with "he's really sweet and smart and cute, but I'm just not feeling it." I realized "it" was the familiar tug of the inevitable pain and excitement of my old relationship pattern and issues, in which pain and heartbreak became a kind of self-reinforcing elixir. Sometimes I wonder how many people don't know the difference between exquisite suffering and exquisite joy...

I was equally responsible for my old failed relationship attempts. I was looking for something in those relationships that I had to be able to find in myself first. Once I understood this, it was amazing how many kind, relatively sane and emotionally available men I met. In fact, I don't even notice the kind of guys I used to be awash in. Occasionally, I meet one in a social setting, but immediately see him for the walking train wreck he is and feel grateful that part of my life is over.

My point is, once I readjusted my "vision" I was able to see why I was attracted to and attracting relationships that guaranteed mutual misery. I don't know. Perhaps this might be true for you, as well? If not, you have my sincere apologies for getting all girl-y relationship-y on you.

[R K]

I agree with you that the kind of women you've been dating have problems and need help, however, first they need to admit they have problems before anyone, including me, can help them. A lot of these women typically blame everyone but themselves for their unhappiness. What I try to do is help men understand that these behaviors aren't normal and they don't have to tolerate, accept or resign themselves to this kind of woman and relationship.

When I was dating a few years back, I seemed to only meet emotionally unavailable, ambivalent men. After much frustration, I took an 18-month dating hiatus. In that time, I realized that I was also ambivalent about making myself totally vulnerable to another person. Because I wasn't ready, I chose guys who, for whatever reason, weren't ready either. I was only available to emotionally unavailable men and totally unavailable to men who were ready and able to have an intimate relationship--circular reasoning, I know.

After this "insight," I became very clear about what I wanted in life and a relationship. I gave men whom, in the past, I typically would have dismissed with "he's really sweet and smart and cute, but I'm just not feeling it." I realized "it" was the familiar tug of the inevitable pain and excitement of my old relationship pattern and issues, in which pain and heartbreak became a kind of self-reinforcing elixir. Sometimes I wonder how many people don't know the difference between exquisite suffering and exquisite joy...

I was equally responsible for my old failed relationship attempts. I was looking for something in those relationships that I had to be able to find in myself first. Once I understood this, it was amazing how many kind, relatively sane and emotionally available men I met. In fact, I don't even notice the kind of guys I used to be awash in. Occasionally, I meet one in a social setting, but immediately see him for the walking train wreck he is and feel grateful that part of my life is over.

My point is, once I readjusted my "vision" I was able to see why I was attracted to and attracting relationships that guaranteed mutual misery. I don't know. Perhaps this might be true for you, as well? If not, you have my sincere apologies for getting all girl-y relationship-y on you.

Wow - sounds like you were pretty screwed up.

I'm pretty well sorted thanks. Interesting that as a woman, you think perhaps it's the man that needs 'fixing' and to gain 'insight' and not that most women are in fact totally bonkers. I'm wondering do you make your money out of men or women?

[Guest AuntJess]

Wow - sounds like you were pretty screwed up.

I'm pretty well sorted thanks. Interesting that as a woman, you think perhaps it's the man that needs 'fixing' and to gain 'insight' and not that most women are in fact totally bonkers. I'm wondering do you make your money out of men or women?

Why go from one extreme to the other? Drawing conclusions about the many based on the few?

I don't know how many women you dated to arrive at your conclusions, but I DO know that whether you are man or a woman, if you do what you always did, you will get what you always got.

Expanded: If you search in the same places and make the same moves, you will 'catch' the same sort of 'fish'.

[DrTara Shrink4Men]

Wow - sounds like you were pretty screwed up.

I'm pretty well sorted thanks. Interesting that as a woman, you think perhaps it's the man that needs 'fixing' and to gain 'insight' and not that most women are in fact totally bonkers. I'm wondering do you make your money out of men or women?

Actually, I wasn't implying that you, a man, need "fixing," but trying to give a little hope that not all women are grasping, selfish headcases. It's my experience that it's often helpful to look at what you might be doing or putting out there that draws a certain type of person to you. Even in a totally abusive relationship, the target has some personal level of responsibility, even if it's simply making the choice to remain in the relationship and tolerate the shabby treatment.

Had I not done this in my 20's, I would have continued making bad relationship choices and attracting men who were a poor fit for me. I was also conveying the message that not all women are bonkers, just like not all men are jerks. When you adopt that mindset, then you're definitely only going to meet the crazy ones.

I don't make any money from my site. I have a very part-time consultation practice with both male and female clients. The bulk of my work is helping men through the process of ending their bad relationships and moving on in such a way so that they don't make the same mistakes again.

[R K]

Actually, I wasn't implying that you, a man, need "fixing," but trying to give a little hope that not all women are grasping, selfish headcases. It's my experience that it's often helpful to look at what you might be doing or putting out there that draws a certain type of person to you. Even in a totally abusive relationship, the target has some personal level of responsibility, even if it's simply making the choice to remain in the relationship and tolerate the shabby treatment.

Had I not done this in my 20's, I would have continued making bad relationship choices and attracting men who were a poor fit for me. I was also conveying the message that not all women are bonkers, just like not all men are jerks. When you adopt that mindset, then you're definitely only going to meet the crazy ones.

I don't make any money from my site. I have a very part-time consultation practice with both male and female clients. The bulk of my work is helping men through the process of ending their bad relationships and moving on in such a way so that they don't make the same mistakes again.

And I was simply recounting a personal anecdotal, pointing out that when you said perhaps the incidence of female nutjobs is higher than you at first suspected, that it is in fact closer to 100%. I hesitate to repeat this since it seems to trigger your defensive female sisterhood gene.

Perfectly sorted men attract bonkers women presumably because bonkers women seek perfectly sorted men. Of course perfectly sorted men don't remain (or even start!) a relationship or allow themselves to be abused by bonkers women - now you're making my point for me.

As for you referring to men as 'targets' who are partly responsible for women being bonkers, well You've been watching too much Sex in the City.